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Application object not working properly at the moment, no clue who is online... * Numbers in parentheses are the number of minutes since the user last loaded a page. Logged-in users time out after 40 minutes (unless they manually log out), lurkers and anonymous posters after 20. |
Z Unregistered user |
I think it would be interesting to run some polls about what is considered cheating by various players. (You can add your own polls here.) Is it cheating: ...
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Twinge Registered user Communist in Disguise Last page view: 5167 days, 5 hours, 18 minutes and 11 seconds ago. |
Mostly a bit scummy, but not cheating at all. The largest issue would probably be abusing starvation for stats... I'd like to see stat increases based on your actual stat only, so any modifiers (bad OR good) don't count -- BUT you'll have to make corpses once more have a higher chance of increasing your stats to balance that out (Otherwise it's very difficult to get stats past about 30 without scumming non-stop for potions of stat) I know choosing your starsign in unrealistic, but if you have a specific character you intend to play, some star signs just don't work. If you want to play a wildly chaotic barbarian, you really won't want to be born in the tree, for example :P Now, repeatedly trying to start with good stats or equipment from this would be rather tedious and scummy, but I don't think it's worth the bother. You might get a robe with some extra PV, but that still doesn't change the fact that you'll probably die early on, wasting all that extra time you spent trying to get it ;) (Saving the character with the good equipment, even right at start, and reloading later if you died WOULD be cheating, of course) Asking the ancient dwarf about the portal before you see it is common practice now, and it'd just be tedious NOT to do so really. |
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Alex Registered user Master Necromancer Last page view: 6480 days, 17 hours and 51 seconds ago. |
I always do 1, 2 & 4. Not doing 1 is just stupid, 2 is just a technique like any other, as for 4, well, if I want to play a barbarian, should I really have to bother playing for 10 minutes until I die in the PC with a char I don't care about because he started with Wand star sign and a strength of 15? I don't see the point tbh. What do you wish for? wands of cat repellent_ |
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Arch-mage Unregistered user |
No one from above is cheating by definition. May be first is closest. And about 4 - if combination is bad, char leaves Ancardia by his first move. Where is cheating? |
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Some guy *u* Unregistered user |
I don't do 2, because I don't want to risk getting myself killed. However, I will use stuff like orcish helmets to get perception higher. I don't scum for specific months, but if I get a useless one (ie. wolf) I'll leave right away. There's about six months I keep. Also, I don't scum for fantastic stats but I won't try playing with terrible ones. |
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Guinea Registered user tWo-HeAdEd cHaOs WeAsEl Last page view: 6941 days, 15 hours, 59 minutes and 40 seconds ago. |
1 - I usually do, but not always ;) 2 - It depends, but I usually don't 3 - There are other ways ;) 4 - No. I take my every new char to SMC->UD->HMV... if he survives that, he's worth playing ;). |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5114 days, 4 hours, 15 minutes and 45 seconds ago. |
1 - I dont think Ive ever seen the portal. Oops... This is the same category as answering 'iceberg' even if you never got it from a pool. (Or played bards tale 3) By the way, did anyone else here play that game? I thought it was kinda fun, and managed to play through it without guidebook (unlike impossible bards tale 2). It was something about travelling back in time, and first you meet hawkslayer as an old man, and he says :"Hi again. How did you know the answer to that riddle was iceberg? I shall never know." A few levels later you run into a younger version of him, and he asks a riddle which has the answer :"Iceberg" before he will join your party. Still, about nr. 1, I figure my player character overhears some of the wandering dwarves in town talk about the portal..heh. If T.Biskup wanted to stop this, would be very easy to have some check IF "seen_portal_yet" TRUE then (normal response) ELSE (you should go see for yourself first, young man..) nr. 2 : Sickness I use. Also get sick before training with Garth. Never starvation, that could kill me and I play too safe for that. Once I get a char with enough stat-raising herb he'll probably go on to win the game. nr. 3 : No. Too boring. I do scum ID, but I do the whole level. And this IS allowed, why would it be there otherwise? (It was there before the SIL and sceptre, right? - On a side note, I take a long time finishing my games. And there could be some truth to the rumors that corruption was meant to increase over time. I find that the longer I play, the more remove corruption stuff I get. Additional corruption at days 180, 270, etc. might make me rethink my playing style. As it is, I see no real problems with taking a long time. 4- No. If I get a really crappy one the char 'might' take one look at the valley, and decide to go spend some quality time with the children instead. Otherwise, I pick a class to go with the sign, and try it out. - Shame that a few of the signs are so obviously better than the others. Candle makes the skill healing a moot point, so a lot of classes that start without healing or herbalism become a lot easier with that sign. Someone mentioned raven for trolls too, for an early trident delivery (indeed, delivery at all). |
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Twinge Registered user Communist in Disguise Last page view: 5167 days, 5 hours, 18 minutes and 11 seconds ago. |
"- On a side note, I take a long time finishing my games. And there could be some truth to the rumors that corruption was meant to increase over time. I find that the longer I play, the more remove corruption stuff I get. Additional corruption at days 180, 270, etc. might make me rethink my playing style. As it is, I see no real problems with taking a long time." It's not a rumor; it's thought to be a bug, but it could've been disabled on purpose. The code is there, at any rate... though I really don't see a -need- to have in increase again past day 90 myself. |
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Guinea Registered user tWo-HeAdEd cHaOs WeAsEl Last page view: 6941 days, 15 hours, 59 minutes and 40 seconds ago. |
With quite early 7LB-s it's hardly possible to need more than 90 days to finish the game. My current char ready for ultra has now 74 days... and I scummed a bit here and there on my way ;) no real hurry. |
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Twinge Registered user Communist in Disguise Last page view: 5167 days, 5 hours, 18 minutes and 11 seconds ago. |
Yeah, the only thing that really pushes it over big time is wilderness scumming. I'd probably have finished about day 100 if I hadn't decided to do some of that ;) |
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The Real J. Registered user The faceless swordsman Last page view: 5586 days, 5 hours, 17 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
1: Yes. Like someone mentioned it could be that the char happens to overhear some dwarf talking about the portal. 2: No. Using starvation I consider too risky (chance of instadeath) and by the time I consider it safe to be sick I'm usually satisfied with current stats. Also, it is quite time-consuming to do. 3: No. I *DO* ID-scum, but it's done by actually exploring the levels (fully or partially) before changing the level. 4: Yes and No. I don't actually actively scum for certain starsign or top stats, but I do require decent stats and some useful starsign to accept the char. Usually I quit at once if I get some useless starsign like Unicorn but with decent stats I cconsider playing. Then again, I usually quit if the downstairs in SMC are not close enough to the upstairs in order to be able to use SMC as shortcut. Sytytä toiselle tuli ja hän pysyy lämpimänä jonkin aikaa. Sytytä hänet palamaan ja hän pysyy lämpimänä loppuelämänsä. |
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raven1 Unregistered user |
Cheating is oft discussed, but seldom agreed on... to put it simply; IF its in the game bug or not, and you can use it to win faster, more effectively, or to archmage out <got more time than i do>, do it. Cheating in a ROGUElike game, is savescumming (eg. copying save file so if you die you can reload and try again)...beyond that cheating in a game as simple yet perplexingly complex, does not exist... hence the spoilers section, where we share our tricks, tips, and ideas, to better all our games. I use the guidebook frequently during my games, i forget what slays who, what corpse does what, even though ive done it hundreds of times, is that cheating? of course not. this is a big game <on the scale of Ultima 5 in complexity> reference is needed...is it cheating if i wrote it all down myself <ala Ultima 5>...? no someone did it for me, i just use it. just my opinion hope it clears something up. |
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Warlord* Unregistered user |
Things like starting characters to get good stats/sign is not cheating, it's powergaming. Powergaming has existed as long as have RPGs. |
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Armada Registered user Last page view: 1198 days, 10 hours, 28 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
Savescumming? Cheating. Im not too sure if i consider saving a character on its first turn and backing up the save file.. Its just too much of a pain scumming for a good birthsign anymore. Note: I don't actually do this, but i wouldnt hold it against others. Herb scumming? Too boring, but i wouldnt call it cheating, don't do it myself. Pacifying the big room? Too boring as well. Saving/backing up and quitting your game to look at your intinsics/get free ID's of your items is cheating in my book. I -will- however do that if im stuck in a level for an extended period of time and can't find the last door. |
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Twinge Registered user Communist in Disguise Last page view: 5167 days, 5 hours, 18 minutes and 11 seconds ago. |
You can use ADOMBot to set your birth sign. You can do this immidiately after it is assigned -- if you do, no other information has been generated yet, so you won't see if, say, you'll want to take a +1 Learning talent to start with literacy. |
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Zephyr Registered user Solar Last page view: 4871 days, 11 hours, 20 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
Another question: Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day. Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
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Warlord* Unregistered user |
Not really count that cheating, I'd call that one powergaming too. I mean, you COULD start chars again and again and again untill you have something similar. It just cuts down the time. |
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Arch-mage Unregistered user |
It IS some cheating becouse you'll have less need to risk with unidentified items each next time. |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3728 days, 7 hours, 5 minutes and 32 seconds ago. |
I'd say it is... but I also wouldn't call it a non-victory if you won. I'd just say you had to note that you did it in your victory post. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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thedrin# Unregistered user |
I used to that one. But I no longer do since vaults, ant nests and bee hives are always generated on the same levels. Once you go into PC:1 you've learned something about that game set up that will always remain the same. That and some people around here consider it save scumming and I want to avoid that in all it's forms.. |
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Warlord* Unregistered user |
Hmm...true. Didn't think about vaults and stuff. Still wouldn't call it a cheat, but I doubt I do it again (well, haven't done in a long time anyway), since I don't want to find the same vaults etc each time. |
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Warlord* Unregistered user |
Oh btw Twinge, since you read the forums, I thought I'd bring this up here. Various_Random_Factoids: You always fall at least once when entering the rift. What version is this tested? I believe in 1.0.0. it was possible to go down without falling (cheated char, skills 100, stats 99, blessed climbing sets). I remember doing it. Don't know about never versions though, but I'd just check if you have checked it with the newest version :) btw, nice site, enjoying the info there. Keep up the good work. |
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Twinge Registered user Communist in Disguise Last page view: 5167 days, 5 hours, 18 minutes and 11 seconds ago. |
Enjoy the site while you can, I'll probably be taking it down since it contains large amounts of information that was extracted through dissasembly, which Thomas has recently spoken out against. We'll see. About falling once in the rift: I've only played version 1.1.1 and that's all I've tested. The counter that counts how many times you fall when entering the rift starts at 1, so you can't ever fall less than once. If you could actually get down without falling in preivous versions (a completely different message is generated - you don't slip), then maybe that was done on purpose. Not sure, I assumed it was a bug. |
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Warlord* Unregistered user |
That could be. Too bad the site must go :´( |