Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / Spoilers / The Master Race
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F50 Registered user Last page view: 5468 days, 22 hours, 30 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
High elven barbarians ARE literate (see the guide at http://adomguides.blogspot.com), and they are lawful which is why I put them so high. They can also start with some decent PV I believe. I will change the rankings nonetheless I like lawfuls because of early altars (pre level 10) and I never talk to yergius. I've heard so much about hurthling archers that they will stay for the moment. Elves will go up on the archer scale though. "If the bread weights that much in the draklor chain, then it's no wonder so many die of starvation. AND - what kind of IRON RATION weights as much as an iron shield?! A dinner for four, oven included? ;)" -Maelstrom |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4061 days, 7 hours, 47 minutes and 8 seconds ago. |
You didn't just tell me to read my own guide, did you? :) I probably articulated myself badly, but I did say that high elves and gray elves are literate. Big deal. Usually you don't get your entire inventory identified before you speak with Thrundarr anyway, and reading un-IDed scrolls isn't a fun thing to do. High elven starting PV is restricted to leather armor, I believe? Meaning it's a minimum of 2 PV. Other classes have that, too. Hurthlings are lawful as well, offering nice skills... Though they only carry a club and light furs. The times I want to be lawful: 1. Entering Dwarftown (to generate said altar) 2. For crowning and the whole game after that because it's not fun to become a fallen champion Apart from that, I'm quite okay with being neutral, depending on early-found altars, of course. I usually kill the crime lord before I enter the Caverns of Chaos, granting me a means to become lawful any time I wish, so I don't care about starting alignment. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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J. Registered user You'll never get rid of me Last page view: 5657 days, 1 hour, 59 minutes and 18 seconds ago. |
When I start a lawful char, the first thing I do is slaughter innocent beggars in lawinotheil to drop my alignment to neutral because being neutral is best. Pickpocketing is nice, detect traps is good, stealth and climbing are mandatory if you want the SoCR from the library and so on. You get a small corruption resistance of 10% or something at L+, but other than that, there's nothing you can do lawful which you couldn't do if you were neutral. Sometimes neutral is better even: you should be neutral when talking to the dwarven mystic for example, unless you want ratling fodder. If you're feeling happy, don't worry, it'll go away. Originally posted by noob: "I'm everytime amazed how you people know to exploit every single little bug (or not-bug) for elaborated scumming tatics even if the feature seems completely useless or bad." |
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noob Registered user Last page view: 5921 days, 10 hours, 17 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Who cares about alignment (except for unspoiled or role-play reason)? It's really no big trouble changing it around to whichever suits best at the given moment. Even starting chaotic - just get a class with healing or search the puppy cave for altars... |
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F50 Registered user Last page view: 5468 days, 22 hours, 30 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
"reading un-IDed scrolls isn't a fun thing to do." I beg to differ. Start with the largest heap of them, when you reach D:1 or so. It's probably ID. Besides, what's the worst that can happen. Scrolls of protection usually aren't around, which makes amniesia is the only one that is likely to do real harm. Scrolls of item destruction can be nasty, but usually aren't. "there's nothing you can do lawful which you couldn't do if you were neutral." Two words: live sac If you want to precrown early (start saccing before level 10 where you would have an amulet of order), don't start neutral. You also don't have to worry about stepping on altars (like neutrals, but especially chaotics) if you are lawful. "If the bread weights that much in the draklor chain, then it's no wonder so many die of starvation. AND - what kind of IRON RATION weights as much as an iron shield?! A dinner for four, oven included? ;)" -Maelstrom |
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noob Registered user Last page view: 5921 days, 10 hours, 17 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
The worst un-id-scroll would be a cursed SoCR - nasty. But scrolls of id are pretty common in the black market and reading the biggest heap of scrolls (2 are enough, 3 are pretty safe already) is quite reliable (maybe you will get uncursing instead - no big deal). |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4890 days, 9 hours, 21 minutes and 54 seconds ago. |
Worst scroll: Cursed scroll of ill fate. Reading one of these little darlings means death 9 times out of 10, in the early game. Go to death, go directly to death, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. They are at least rare though. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4061 days, 7 hours, 47 minutes and 8 seconds ago. |
Well, I don't think being able to precrown at level 8 is so important... Then again, I never usually precrown. But if you want to rely on that, sure. Starting alignment has no influence whatsoever on the type of altar that is going to be generated - you need a lawful altar in any case, right? If the early altar generated is lawful and the PC is neutral, it costs a grand total of 3 or 4 gold pieces to become lawful! Not really a good argument. The only point is that you have to be lawful if you want to convert an early-found neutral or chaotic altar to lawful. But the risk and trouble of converting altars isn't really worth it just to be able to precrown at level 8 instead of 11 (You're guaranteed a coaligned altar, unless chaotic, in Dwarftown, after having generated the si). Not to mention you can also farm stoma from the Big Room or other herb levels to do a precrowning. I may be biased since I never precrown. Lastly, yeah, the biggest stack usually is identify. However, for this to be reliable, you need a suitably big stack. It's not enough to have two scrolls with the same label while the other couple of scrolls have different labels. You need six or seven scrolls with the same label before the odds are good. And until you get this kind of stack - well, you should've reached Dwarftown. It's not THAT far away! You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! [Edited 1 time, last edit on 1/19/2008 at 04:36 (GMT -5) by Silfir] |
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rmcin329 Registered user Last page view: 5208 days, 19 hours, 50 minutes and 43 seconds ago. |
actually starting alignment DOES have an effect on what altar wil be generated in Dwarftown. Whatever your alignment was at char creation, thats what the dwarftown altar ends up being(not entirely sure if it can be chaotic but i know this to be true for chars that start lawful or neutral) |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4061 days, 7 hours, 47 minutes and 8 seconds ago. |
The altar will have the alignment you have *as you enter Dwarftown* the first time (it's neutral if you're chaotic), not as you have started out. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4232 days, 7 hours, 4 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
Being L is helpful for an early game precrown, though it does rely on finding an early altar and converting it. It's still quite possible to get an N or C precrown though (the former more tedious and the latter slightly risky, but still very possible), so I'll happily trade L status for N to get pickpocketing. Like J I always get my lawfuls to kill a beggar so I can get in the thieves guild. A heap of 3 scrolls in the early game will have a 50% chance of being identify. However, in the early game this isn't such a big deal - a barbarian won't need to rely on identify random potions and such as a regular character. Well, unles they're a puny elf that'll die if you breath on them... Literacy in the early game for barbarians is simply no match for the far greater strength and toughness, no to mention better weapons, skills, healing rates, etc. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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F50 Registered user Last page view: 5468 days, 22 hours, 30 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
I do not often die early with High Elven barbarians. Its the classic High-elven classes that die if you breath on them... But that is not the point, HE barbarians have been moved down. "If the bread weights that much in the draklor chain, then it's no wonder so many die of starvation. AND - what kind of IRON RATION weights as much as an iron shield?! A dinner for four, oven included? ;)" -Maelstrom |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5134 days, 12 hours, 59 minutes and 21 seconds ago. |
Alignment is actually a deal in the start. And L, it must be said, IS best. Because then you can go to N and C easily, while there is no quick sure way to get L in the beginning. Also, you can lure the sheriff to outlaw village. If you are L, he will say "lets slay bandits" and hand you a medal of order. Now you can go N for pickpocketing, and then go back to L for dwarftown at will. Or sell the amulet for cash and stay at N. |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4061 days, 7 hours, 47 minutes and 8 seconds ago. |
It's still not that great of a deal. The only thing you need to be lawful for early on is early precrownings with monsters. If that's what you rely on, sure, concentrate on lawful characters. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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noob Registered user Last page view: 5921 days, 10 hours, 17 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Early precrowning with monsters works for chaotics as well - no need to step over the altar at all. Alignment is completely relative and insignificant in adom if you know how to push the buttons. |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 5349 days, 7 hours, 4 minutes and 42 seconds ago. |
What's the thing with char alignement? It does not matter until dwarftown and even C- is easily changed to LN so early (whips/scourges/every quest from starting town/marble amulet) |
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F50 Registered user Last page view: 5468 days, 22 hours, 30 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
yes, it does not matter from levels 10-30 when alignment changes easy. But that is not the topic of this thread. "If the bread weights that much in the draklor chain, then it's no wonder so many die of starvation. AND - what kind of IRON RATION weights as much as an iron shield?! A dinner for four, oven included? ;)" -Maelstrom |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4061 days, 7 hours, 47 minutes and 8 seconds ago. |
The topic discussed was to what extent starting alignment is an issue when choosing the "Master Race" (being German, this thread title still makes me uncomfortable). And we've worked out it's not really much of an issue, except if you want a really early precrown, the earliest possible at level 8 in fact, with the help of sacrificed monsters at a lawful altar (so converted from neutral or chaotic, because if it was lawful right from the start you yourself wouldn't have needed to be lawful). If you wait just until level 10, you can get an amulet of order from Tywat Pare for killing Hotzenplotz (which is easy using damaging wands), providing you with complete alignment freedom at least until amulets of order cease to work effectively (not until level 25 or so). And as has been stated, sacrificing for said precrown is just as easy in C alignment (easy to achieve by killing neutral people, especially beggars, in Lawenilothehl) with a chaotic altar (any early-found altar can be made chaotic). Therefore, starting alignment isn't really an issue to be considered when creating a character. If anything, you may want to refrain from starting as a chaotic character because it keeps you from getting Healing while sparing Jharod's life, but that's about it. (And even in that case, remember that getting Healing from Kranf Niest may actually be preferable, especially for fighting classes, because you start out at a higher value and the stat points lost aren't really that bad unless you are a spellcaster and have low Learning and Willpower stats already.) And thus there is no reason whatsoever to rate high elven barbarians any higher than gray elven barbarians, except maybe for their better HP regeneration and toughness. Which is to say, both deserve to be rated last, because lo! for the ability to read and write they have traded the ancient art of being a non-sucky barbarian. With this thread, we have officially and undoubtably proven that this forum is the home of the most pointless debates ever conceived by human minds. :) You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! [Edited 1 time, last edit on 1/21/2008 at 19:14 (GMT -5) by Silfir] |
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Nightmare Registered user Soul Calibur 2 Last page view: 4591 days, 21 hours, 10 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
I object to the rankings F50 listed. Firstly, Gnomish Archers kick ass. They require less marks to increase their crossbow skill, and they start out with one, and 30+ quarrels. Quarrels do 2d6 damage, vs 1d6 arrows and 1d4 rocks. Gnomish starting dex is quite respectable, and the extra talent(s) help a lot. Secondly, Dark Elven archers are great because they get find weakness. Only them and orcs as archers start with that skill. Watch how many ranged criticals they get with Find Weakness at 100. "As for me, I feel priveleged to be among the only species able to make scientific inquiries." -unknown "Be sure to keep your distance if you don't have resistance." -DG |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4890 days, 9 hours, 21 minutes and 54 seconds ago. |
Gnomes are also one of only two races in the game that have the gemology skill. It can be quite beneficial, since there are ants, only two levels away from the very start of the game. A few beneficial crystals, can go a long way in the early game. Darkness is a great help against many tough enemies. The other race is trolls. Even I will not defend trolls as archers. What is it they start with again? Throwing clubs? Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4061 days, 7 hours, 47 minutes and 8 seconds ago. |
Trollish archers do get Athletics, Food Preservation and Gemology... Increased speed is a nice skill effect for an archer. Throwing clubs suck big time, though. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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noob Registered user Last page view: 5921 days, 10 hours, 17 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
I disagree with the rankings, too. Nightmare is completely right - find weakness works wonders for archerery. "You hit and wound your enemy slightly. You hit and wound your enemy slightly. You hit EXACTLY and and kill right away!" Orks and dark elven get LOT's of really deadly crits and should rank much higher. How comes hurthlings are no. 1 anyway - I mean: ROCKS!? They are good to have an early on trained missile skill for NON-archers and should go down to 7 together with drakes who only get scurgars at start. And I second gnomes rule. Dark elven are also as good wizards as any elf. And why do humans always rank 10? |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4061 days, 7 hours, 47 minutes and 8 seconds ago. |
Humans do suck. And dark elves have numerous disadvantages, such as bad shop prices and average learning. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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J. Registered user You'll never get rid of me Last page view: 5657 days, 1 hour, 59 minutes and 18 seconds ago. |
Dark elven archers also get a bad weapon: the tiny crossbow isn't powerful and the ammo is hard to come by. Orcs are the other doods with find weakness, and they start with studded leather and heavy boots, at least 4 PV right there, almost as good as the elven chain mail's 5... Oh wait, nevermind. The orc I just rolled to see what an orcs starting equipment is got 15 learning :O AND he's a Book, 5 skill increases for an orc, damnit, now I'm actually going to have to play him. Humans at least have a long bow, and food preservation is awesome. If you're feeling happy, don't worry, it'll go away. Originally posted by noob: "I'm everytime amazed how you people know to exploit every single little bug (or not-bug) for elaborated scumming tatics even if the feature seems completely useless or bad." [Edited 1 time, last edit on 1/22/2008 at 09:16 (GMT -5) by J.] |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4061 days, 7 hours, 47 minutes and 8 seconds ago. |
My archer race evaluation is part of my Archer guide. I rated orcish archers pretty high because of their skills, but I think playing a high elven archer still is the easiest thing to do. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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vogon poet elsewhere Unregistered user |
I love hobbit archers... no slaying rocks, who cares? Killing monsters, especially stone ones, with rocks just rocks. |
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F50 Registered user Last page view: 5468 days, 22 hours, 30 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
"And thus there is no reason whatsoever to rate high elven barbarians any higher than gray elven barbarians, except maybe for their better HP regeneration and toughness. Which is to say, both deserve to be rated last, because lo! for the ability to read and write they have traded the ancient art of being a non-sucky barbarian." Better HP regeneration and toughness are a very good reason nonetheless. The question is, do they deserve to be rated as worse than Hurthlings, Gnomes, Grey/Dark Elves, and Humans (*gasp*) "If the bread weights that much in the draklor chain, then it's no wonder so many die of starvation. AND - what kind of IRON RATION weights as much as an iron shield?! A dinner for four, oven included? ;)" -Maelstrom |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4061 days, 7 hours, 47 minutes and 8 seconds ago. |
Worse than hurthlings and gnomes? Definitely! Worse than dark elves? Most definitely! (You can't ignorse those awesome skills!) Better than humans? A matter of taste, but humans do get a two-handed sword and Food Preservation is a nice skill... High elves aren't worse than grey elves, but they also aren't much better. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4232 days, 7 hours, 4 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
And the answer is yes. Well, not grey elves obviously, but all the other have advantages over high elves. Yes, even humans are better - stronger, tougher, faster levelling, better starting equipment, better hp regen and food preservation. Only area that high elves beat them in is not worrying about aging attacks. It's amusing actually that for some classes high and grey elves are best, whilst for others they;re the absolute worst... Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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F50 Registered user Last page view: 5468 days, 22 hours, 30 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
Two handed sword is bad IMO. I want a shield. Anyways, it doesn't matter, I have never had a problem surviving early game with a high elven barbarian. Having a little extra security early-game (Humans only have average St so natural training will negate that advantage by middle game) is a small price to pay for the security granted late-game by immunity to aging (ignoring any other benefits high elves posses). By mid game, all races have the same To if you are playing a class with herbalism (and I would give healing a miss and get herbalism anyways if I didn't have both btw). I wouldn't be able to say that of Dark Elves, though. Weak, weak, weak. Yes, you can improve the Dark Elven skillset. Literacy. Once I was left unable to complete the random monster quest until *after* I was able to save Khelly. Granted, that's not the only way to gain literacy, but Dark Sage corpses aren't exactly common either. I tend to be using scrolls earlier than you do it seems. Identify, Uncurse, PV, DV. Dark elves also suck for toughness. I would like to hear reasoning for hurthlings and gnomes over high elves. "If the bread weights that much in the draklor chain, then it's no wonder so many die of starvation. AND - what kind of IRON RATION weights as much as an iron shield?! A dinner for four, oven included? ;)" -Maelstrom [Edited 1 time, last edit on 1/23/2008 at 21:16 (GMT -5) by F50] |
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