Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / Spoilers / Garth training
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Doalag Registered user Last page view: 5850 days, 8 hours, 7 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
I trained with garth but rules described in guidebook seems to not always work. When a stat has raised it's maximum potential I noticed sometimes one training raise the maximum potential and the next raise the stat. But for some stats it didn't work, the maximum potential didn't raised. In current game, I trained 2 times Le and never get anything. Le is only with 23 base, 29 with some corruption and maximum at 36. I trained 2 times for getting 24 but it didn't work, a long game time passed for each attempt. I'm cursed and often doomed with an item but also Lucky and Fate smile. |
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Narcolepcy Registered user Last page view: 4806 days, 6 hours, 49 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
Think of the numbers in the guidebook as more of a guideline, as using them doesn't give anywhere near a 100 percent chance to raise your stat. I don't know what the exact percentage is but it is much much lower. If you pay him more it increases your chances. |
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Doalag Registered user Last page view: 5850 days, 8 hours, 7 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
Ok thanks I see, the guidebook isn't clear about that but it's perhaps something I didn't see. I suppose it's the same for herbs. I have one stat close to 25 but not at 25 and didn't succeed to raise it with the right blessed herbs. What's weird is that now I paid 2 times for the same stat so two times more than in the guidebook and still nothing. If payments without result aren't cumulated it's weird. Well perhaps it's time to remove this curse and stop using doom. |
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Narcolepcy Registered user Last page view: 4806 days, 6 hours, 49 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
Your training goes down over time so 10k twice isn't the same as 20k. |
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THC842 Registered user Last page view: 4486 days, 5 hours, 16 minutes and 23 seconds ago. |
I often double the guidebook. for example if my Willpower is at 5, i'll give 1000-1200. even at 20 ill pay 5000-6000 iirc |
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Worst Player... ever Registered user Last page view: 4692 days, 5 hours, 32 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
I think it's race dependent too. In my experience Trolls seem to be especially hard to train in this way. Maybe the Learning stat has an effect? |
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Doalag Registered user Last page view: 5850 days, 8 hours, 7 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
I'll try the doubling because I think I lost a third time the training money (about 120% paid). My current race is High Elf. For the garth training should I consider the base value of the stat or the current value to know the sum to pay? After how much game time I can consider the garth training lost? In fact I have the same question for herbs training even if it's a little out of this topic. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 3/18/2008 at 19:14 (GMT -5) by Doalag] |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4239 days, 5 hours, 40 minutes and 23 seconds ago. |
The current value is what's judged - best to remove stat-improving equipment or even use sickness before talking to him. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4897 days, 7 hours, 57 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
> I'll try the doubling because I think I lost a > third time the training money That may be one of the things that the 'improved' guidebook would cover, but that info was gained from code diving. The way I have done it for years, and continue to do now, is to pay based on whether the stat is 15, 20 or 25. If the stat is below 15, I pay 1700. If the stat is below 20, I pay 4500. If the stat is below 25, I pay 9000. That probably is overpaying by a considerable margin, but I hate to think an increase is coming, then get nothing. Also, I seldom train with garth anymore. These days, I spend my money on piety. > After how much game time I can consider the > garth training lost? 1000 game turns. I don't think it goes by time, but by turns. I'm pretty sure that's for herbs and Garth. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Narcolepcy Registered user Last page view: 4806 days, 6 hours, 49 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
I have seen some figures for what is required for a 100 percent chance to increase, and let's just say that it is nigh impossible to overpay. I only use the regular gb numbers + 30% ish, but much more if it's at its potential, cause that seems to work more often than not, although it is very regular that I will train 2 stats and only one will increase. Gut you could not be farther from overpaying. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 3/19/2008 at 01:19 (GMT -5) by Narcolepcy] |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4239 days, 5 hours, 40 minutes and 23 seconds ago. |
With the troll merchant that I got to level 50 for max precrownings I had 2 billion gold to spare and decided to plug it all into stat-training with Garth. I instantly regretted it - I was having every stat raised extremely regularly. If you ever want a ridiculously cheap character then use dragon-doubling for billions of gold and put it into every stat - won't take them long to all reach 99. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Narcolepcy Registered user Last page view: 4806 days, 6 hours, 49 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
Can do that with casino money too. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 3/19/2008 at 01:24 (GMT -5) by Narcolepcy] |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4239 days, 5 hours, 40 minutes and 23 seconds ago. |
With dragons it's easier, and can be done early game (black dragons in swamps). Casinotakes about 20 minutes with a weight on the keyboard to get a million gold - would take forever to get a billion. Starting with 50k gold you can get 1.6 billion from just 15 dragons. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Doalag Registered user Last page view: 5850 days, 8 hours, 7 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
Darren thanks for the precision, that change all if it's the current value that is used. I was paying to get 24 when I should try pay to get 30, not to mention that I never tried sickness for garth, but tried with herbs with no success. Darren : Black dragons? I never see any, what level the char should be? Gut : Thank you but well for a base of 24 I was paying up to 12000 which is largely over than the 9k you suggest. Ok that's probably I wasn't using the current stat value but the stat base value. Gut : 1000 turns? Thanks but how convert game time and average speed in turns? :-) Or at least for a speed 100, one day in a dungeon level is how much turns? |
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Narcolepcy Registered user Last page view: 4806 days, 6 hours, 49 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
Do not try to calculate when the stats will be trained, you will fail. Also it is possible to fail the first training check and succeed in subsequent checks. |
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Doalag Registered user Last page view: 5850 days, 8 hours, 7 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
The point is to have an idea when it's time to try train again or not when the training fail. If the stat changes it's clear when it doesn't it's a problem. About good things, I just got 2 success with herbs one for stat raise and another for potential raise but only for TO with sickness putting it bellow 25 but not for WI with base at 24 but current value at 25 with sickness so the max anyway with herbs. |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4897 days, 7 hours, 57 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
> Thanks but how convert game time and average > speed in turns? :-) Game time does not convert to game turns. 100 turns spent in the wilderness will use up days of game time, but 100 turns spent in a dungeon will probably not use an hour. For accurate turn measuring, you should change the dynamic display from speed, to game turns, by means of the :t command 4x. You can still check your speed as you wish, by checking your character info with the @ command. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Narcolepcy Registered user Last page view: 4806 days, 6 hours, 49 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
The best bet is to train 2 stats at once as its a much smaller chance for both stats to fail to raise, and you will know when one failed when the other raises. There is no other way. |
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Doalag Registered user Last page view: 5850 days, 8 hours, 7 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
Nice gut, thank you, I had noticed the :t possibility but not the total sum turn since the beginning. I'm probably playing the longest game ever played in Adom. :-p 304901 turns! And a char only level 10 that haven't yet achieve a lot of things. :-) Narcolepcy : Thanks for the advice but isn't this goes most often to a 50% loss? Also I did that until I noticed it didn't work for 2 stats then I stopped it to train only one. Most of my problem was coming from using the base level of the stats not the current level. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 3/19/2008 at 21:41 (GMT -5) by Doalag] |
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Doalag Registered user Last page view: 5850 days, 8 hours, 7 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
One more question, is mixing herbs training and garth training unadvised? |
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Narcolepcy Registered user Last page view: 4806 days, 6 hours, 49 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
woops doubled [Edited 1 time, last edit on 3/19/2008 at 22:06 (GMT -5) by Narcolepcy] |
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Narcolepcy Registered user Last page view: 4806 days, 6 hours, 49 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
Do herbs first garth second, mixing will not make it go faster as it will still make the same amount of training checks, and at the same time, and if you are using herbs you will most likely pass the checks and get a raise anyway. It is a good idea to train say, strength with garth while using morgia however, since the game checks every stat at the same time, if any of your stats raise you know it is time to train again. |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4897 days, 7 hours, 57 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
If you don't like the idea of waiting, or just don't like the uncertainty factor, there is a more sure way. Wait until your exp. level is about to go up. Train whatever stat you like, and get the few lacking exp. points, to go up a level. Stat checks are always made at level ups, regardless of where your turn based checks come in. This method is also nice because your stat training has very little time to be reduced over time. Level up checks do not interfere with your turn based checks. You can train with Garth, get your turn based stat raise, and train again for your exp. level raise, all in the span of a few turns. You can mix Garth training with herb training, but it saves gold to train the WI, DE, and TO stats with herbs. Garth training is most useful for training non- WI, TO, and DE stats. It's most efficient for stats below 20. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Doalag Registered user Last page view: 5850 days, 8 hours, 7 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
Ok thank you both, it's mixing because I have few herbs training to do and garth on some other stats. In fact my stat training (with guiding of guidebook :-) ) has been a total failure. I delayed balance too much and attempt it after to get corruption that had already break some. Find herbs too complicate without gardening so trained first with garth and even couldn't resist use some stat rise pottions to soon, .... :-) Ok first char where I take care to do some stat training (with help of guidebook). For waiting stats rising I pick up some pet and train it in the big level above dwarf town and take the opportunity to collect here some herbs. My stats are all over 20, and some close or above 30 but with corruption effects and sickness I have some to train and bellow 25 or 30 for garth training. The true goal was more training an array of pets because I had lost too many plus got surprised to not be able to have pet in ogre cave, despite levels up to 23. Pets here don't get hurt but couldn't hurt either. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4239 days, 5 hours, 40 minutes and 23 seconds ago. |
Black dragons aren't encountered in the wilderness till you're around level 18 I think. It's not worth scumming them though - it's a horribly cheap tactic that I only use for a specific challenge game. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Narcolepcy Registered user Last page view: 4806 days, 6 hours, 49 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
Gut you have some eroneous information there. Your stat training does not go down over time, it goes down when u fail to successfully train, so there is no advantage to training near your level. Also if you want your stats to go up and fast, only training near your level ups will make it take much longer to train. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 3/20/2008 at 17:39 (GMT -5) by Narcolepcy] |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4897 days, 7 hours, 57 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
> Gut you have some eroneous information there. Your > stat training does not go down over time, Absolutely wrong. I have enough experience to know that some stats can be abused without many players even knowing it. The longer you have to wait for your turn based check, the more likely that something can interfere. There are many activities that abuse your stats while playing. I have had the personal experience of having the 'Overburdened' status for only a few turns, prevent a DX increase. That can happen VERY easily when trying to train strength while carrying Si's. Goodbye ~10000 gold pieces. Gnomish candy can abuse your toughness, thus possibly preventing an increase for the TO stat. Along with other abusive things that can happen, that I'm just not thinking of off the top of my head. There is also this occurance: You spend 12000 gold training strength, you kill a hill giant cheiftain, you eat it's corpse, your ST increases. Congrats, you just wasted ~10000 gold pieces. If you train with Garth when near a level up, or turn check, you are less likely to encounter that. >Also if you want your stats to go up and fast, >only training near your level ups will make it >take much longer to train. Your implying that I suggested to ONLY train stat near level ups? You will notice from my previous post: "Level up checks do not interfere with your turn based checks. You can train with Garth, get your turn based stat raise, and train again for your exp. level raise, all in the span of a few turns." Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Narcolepcy Registered user Last page view: 4806 days, 6 hours, 49 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
Yes you can negativley train your stats, but you said they reduced over time, making it sound like it decreases just like corruption increases which is not true. Also it is quite easy to avoid negative training. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 3/21/2008 at 00:45 (GMT -5) by Narcolepcy] |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4897 days, 7 hours, 57 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
> but you said they reduced over time, making it > sound like it decreases just like corruption > increases which is not true But YOU said they reduced over time! Making it sound like it decreases, just like corruption increases, which is not true. (According to your previous statements.) Narcolepsy: > Your training goes down over time so 10k twice > isn't the same as 20k. Technically what I said was: "This method is also nice because your stat training has very little time to be reduced over time" Maybe I wasn't clear, but I was indeed talking about stat abuse/modifying with the passage of time. Even stat increases and some room effects can have a negative impact, when it comes to getting your golds worth. > Also it is quite easy to avoid negative training. Most times yes, sometimes no. I still often get the status of Overburdened at the worst times. There are also chances of equip ID'ing cursed items that abuse stats, even for a few turns, it can mess things up. Room effects, for a few turns, can also mess things up. For experienced players, these things are less likely. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Narcolepcy Registered user Last page view: 4806 days, 6 hours, 49 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
You fail training checks over time, so 10k isnt the same as 20k. Stop arguing semantics, end topic, only further thing I could post is the exact training formula and thatd just piss people off. |
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