Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / Spoilers / Items/Danger Levels
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Doalag Registered user Last page view: 5844 days, 9 hours, 53 minutes and 37 seconds ago. |
As you are a fan of super optimization you should feel forced to use an extended auto pickup and use the auto pick switch shortcut. To pickup something it's not move then pick, it's activate auto pick, move, auto pick, disable auto pick. It's even less key press at the price to not see what you pick but one turn saved per picking. :-p |
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the damn ring Registered user someone save those f's from me Last page view: 5857 days, 18 hours, 17 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
you can get out of the casino withoout teleporting hugo, the big guard. His position depends purely on the basis of the result of your last gamble, so, if you have lost it, hugo moves away. my suggestion is that you play a few turns and check his position after each attempt. Forutnately (or otherwise) he will have moved away by then.... |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4891 days, 9 hours, 43 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
Doalag: > To pickup something it's not move then pick, > it's activate auto pick, move, auto pick, > disable auto pick VERY good idea! I will incorperate that tactic in my currrent and future games. I didn't know about the toggle command, but I did look it up. It seems simple, (just ctrl-a) so that's probably what I will do from now on. I think I will just use it for potions, scrolls, gold, wands, and missiles though. I don't want to be picking up every weapon and armor I see. Thanks. Actually I can still see what I'm picking up, by using the 'l'ook key, while standing next to the item. Even if I pick up some things I don't like, I can always drop them with the extended drop command. That will use only one turn. the damn ring: > you can get out of the casino withoout > teleporting hugo, the big guard. His position > depends purely on the basis of the result of > your last gamble I didn't know that either! Good tip. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4062 days, 8 hours and 9 minutes ago. |
Okay, now it's a bug. Or is it a feature? You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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J. Registered user You'll never get rid of me Last page view: 5658 days, 2 hours, 21 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
So what, you play slots and win 10 million, Hugo blocks your way, then go and lose one game and he'll let you go? Sounds... Easy. But hey, you always learn new things in ADOM. Like this Auto_pickup thingy! I didn't know it worked like that... I play Crawl too, and there the autopickup automatically turns off when a monster is visible(or when an invisible monster attacks you), because there you certainly don't get any free turns for picking up stuff... So I kinda thought ADOM worked the same way. More about monks. Here you can see that monks get the same DV bonus wielding weapons as they do when fighting unarmed. You can't wear a shield though, now THAT would be unbalancing, just imagine the DV... Shields are of course very good in ADOM and are always an option, but if you do go for a shield, you might as well go for heavy armour too and start pretending you're a fighter with better skills and class powers :) If you play monk-style without cumbersome shields and armour, two-handers are better than one-handed weapons, because they do more damage (or, you could dual-wield, too). If you train up your staff skill you can even use that starting staff as a "shield", wield it when you need to flee and need extra DV, fight unarmed again when you need more damage. Oh, and, of course, if you get Executor definately go for axe/shield/eternium plate, as Executor kicks ass. If you're feeling happy, don't worry, it'll go away. Originally posted by noob: "I'm everytime amazed how you people know to exploit every single little bug (or not-bug) for elaborated scumming tatics even if the feature seems completely useless or bad." |
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Worst Player... ever Registered user Last page view: 4686 days, 7 hours, 19 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
I don't know why I haven't been using auto pickup! It's a given that I'd want anything light, and it can save me a lot of turns over time. I'm not so much a huge super optimization guy... I won't give up too much real life time for a game advantage. It's just that corruption is a bigger concern for this character than most. I'm through the air temple and I'm still level 19. I'll probably hit the rift now, but even so, at this pace I'll likely be taking on D:50 at level 22, 23 or so (assuming I'm not dead) - miles away from the unicorn quest. I'm wearing the robes of resistance, but other than that, yes, that's pretty much exactly how I'm playing him, like a fighter that can run *really* fast and kick through walls. I've run worse characters. :) The casino is win. I'm really glad I got these great tips here - I was all set to leave Executor in the shop :-o . But now I know why passing the ToEF is such a big deal. It's almost like a different game after that... you leave the casino as a much, much more powerful character than when you got there. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 4/5/2008 at 16:00 (GMT -5) by Worst Player... ever] |
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Some guy Registered user I'm baaaack. Last page view: 5597 days, 5 hours, 58 minutes and 37 seconds ago. |
I never knew that I could save turns with auto-pickup. That's awesome. The following is a real Adom message: The homunculus hits you. You suddenly fall asleep! Do you want to continue to read the spellbook of Calm Monster? [y/N] |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4062 days, 8 hours and 9 minutes ago. |
Still saying it's a bug. ADOM is a single player experience and all, so you may care or not, but personally I will make this a reason never to use Auto_pickup at any point. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4891 days, 9 hours, 43 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
Auto_Pickup has been around for a long time now. If it was a bug, it would have been fixed long ago. ADOM hasn't been updated recently, but it hasn't always been that way. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4062 days, 8 hours and 9 minutes ago. |
It makes no sense for Auto_Pickup to basically serve as a free Pickup whenever you want. Picking stuff up is supposed to take a turn, is it not? I have to test this... Hm. I think you've all been getting too excited. Auto_Pickup does not, in fact, get you a *free* turn. A rather peaceful hobgoblin slower than my high elven assassin milled about a room in the VD, and when I stepped on the square with my test dagger, automatically picking it up, he appeared to have moved two squares. Same for the orc, 100 speed versus 102 of mine, managed to hit me while I was on the run and picked up a dagger along the way. It becomes even more apparent (should've though of this sooner) with the action cost tactical display. When you Auto_Pickup an item, the display shows the cost of the movement plus 1000. So what it does do - gut may rejoice - is merge the movement turn and the pickup turn into a single turn. So while it does save a TURN, it does NOT save TIME. So there is no need whatsoever to start juggling with Auto_Pickup if you don't care about how many turns you've played (I know I don't). The mistakes you may make - forgetting to switch Auto_Pickup off while running away from a dangerous monster for instance - are certainly not worth the turns you may save; not to forget that if you choose only certain kinds of items, you will pick only those up when you step on a heap of treasure, and will have to issue ANOTHER pickup command the next turn to pick up the rest you may want to have too, WASTING time and breaking even on turns. And anyway, it is a bug - Auto-Pickup while moving should really consume two turns when it kicks in, just like bookreading or eating. The reason why it wasn't discovered yet is probably because, well, there are only so many who bother with Auto_Pickup, and that it's not really recognizable unless you play with the turn counter on the tactical display. And who does that, really? (I mean, except you, gut :) ) You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Doalag Registered user Last page view: 5844 days, 9 hours, 53 minutes and 37 seconds ago. |
Corruption is time based or turn based? |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4891 days, 9 hours, 43 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
> When you Auto_Pickup an item, the display > shows the cost of the movement plus 1000 It's true, I keep my dynamic display set to turns. I noticed that the turn counter was never incremented, but have never noticed the energy cost. Funny I never noticed the energy cost, but I suppose one would normally notice that sort of thing when running away, and I usually teleport. Sense it consumes extra energy points, it might be dangerous in some situations. I have not had any problems with it in the games I have played so far, but I've only been using it a couple of weeks maybe. Also, I only really used it for gold and the casino. I'm still not sure it's a bug though. It seems to me that Auto_Pickup should cost EITHER an extra turn, OR an extra 1000 energy points in one turn. Not both though, that would be a severe penalty. It makes more sense to my mind, to count it as two distinct turns, but I think that the inclusion of the 1000 energy point cost, indicates that it was a concious decision to merge the turns (for some reason). I have no idea about the effect it has on corruption. I think that fewer turns = less corruption, but I haven't checked with a scroll of dark predictions. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4062 days, 8 hours and 9 minutes ago. |
The turns were merged, but the turn counter should have increased by two turns. Auto_Pickup is purely a convenience feature, there's no reason why a pickup which would've taken a turn manually shouldn't take one automatically. I think that the influence this has on the turn counter may simply have been overlooked. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Doalag Registered user Last page view: 5844 days, 9 hours, 53 minutes and 37 seconds ago. |
Silfir I see your point but I don't see why it couldn't see as logical. Auto_pickup force a different play, you list many reasons. So you can see it as an improved action, you run and pickup which is quite different than run stop and eventually pickup. I don't see it worse than regeneration rate based on turn and not on time so the "w5" command is plain useless and to avoid at any price if corruption is around. About corruption, the guidebook mention it is based on turn, I quote : "Corruption points added per 20 turns". So that make worth to use auto_pickup for an "advanced play" and face the hassle of the auto_pickup. That said use it is to add another possible source of gameplay error so should be seen as a dangerous choice. I bet that play statistic could show that play with auto_pickup is in fact less efficient so more dangerous than without. Myself I'll stick to the ";" pickup which is less dangerous, wins no turn but avoid the hassle of the series of a-space-a-space. I'll use auto_pickup of all only in the casino and if I have Atlas or a tremendous carry capacity. |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4891 days, 9 hours, 43 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
> The turns were merged, but the turn counter > should have increased by two turns. It should? I don't see the benefit of making the turn cost 2000 energy points, if the turn counter should increase by 2. Wouldn't it be much simpler to just make it cost 2 turns, of 1000 points each. It seems more simple to me. Going through the trouble of making an Auto_Pickup turn cost 2000 energy points still indicates to me that it was intended as a one turn action. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4062 days, 8 hours and 9 minutes ago. |
The turn counter should have increased by two turns because it was a movement turn plus a pickup turn. Having this done automatically instead of manually shouldn't leave you with one turn less in total (and thus with less corruption and less healing). It makes no sense. Even if you think about it as picking something up on the run, remember that you not only pick up something, you also stuff it into your pack. In the end, if you want to do that properly, you have to stop anyway. Also, if it is some sort of "quick" pickup movement, why does it cost the same amount of energy points? I don't think it was intended this way. When the Creator was faced with the task of implementing an Auto_Pickup function, he solved it the way he did probably without thinking about how this would affect the turn counter. Your guess is as good as mine, of course, but it would still make no sense either way. We can argue about his on and on, but I'm certainly not going to be using Auto_Pickup now. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Doalag Registered user Last page view: 5844 days, 9 hours, 53 minutes and 37 seconds ago. |
I doubt a lot the author didn't saw the point, it's not a small hidden stuff it's a basic. The bug could be more that corruption and regeneration are turn based. Why pickup ton of stuff at once cost as much than pick only one? There's no logic to search, just game features. Same goes for regeneration, do you really think it's a bug? Makes it as you said and it's a pointless feature anyway. Common admit it, you won't use it not because it will make the game less challenging but the reverse. :-p Hey new iron man idea, whole game with always Auto_Pickup on for all stuff. :-D |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4062 days, 8 hours and 9 minutes ago. |
That would be Magnet Man. Character autopicks up everything and can never drop stuff. Eeeevil... You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4891 days, 9 hours, 43 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
> Your guess is as good as mine, of course, I'm forced to admit that it isn't. I have quite a strong bias in hoping this is not a bug. I realize that objectivity is kind of difficult for me, on this one. Corruption means nothing to me, it's just the turns. Let me continue the thread hijack just once more, by bouncing one last idea off of you. There are other actions that cost more than 1000 energy points, and they also do not cause the turn counter to increment twice. Bash attacks and book casting can cost much more than 1000 energy points, and one could think that such elaborate actions should consume more than one turn as well. They don't though, they are implemented like the Auto_Pickup function. One turn, but more energy. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4233 days, 7 hours, 26 minutes and 50 seconds ago. |
I would not say it's a bug but a general flaw in the overall turn system ADOM employs. Actions that take little time or a long time overall still have the same turn cost. And since the turn count is linked to things like corruption it means that crossing a room in SLBs or with stiff muscles will still have the same affect on the character. And then of course you have the actual time counter and your speed rating thrown into the equation, with added complications to each... It's all a silly mess! As gut says this auto_pickup thing is perfectly in line with how the rest of ADOM works. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4062 days, 8 hours and 9 minutes ago. |
It's true that there are other actions that consume more than 1000 energy points which are not considered more than one turn. It's also true that there are actions consuming more than 1000 energy points that do. And it's true that actions that consume less than 1000 energy points - nay, even less than 500 - do not consume less than one turn... Who is to say what was intended and what wasn't? I'm clinging to the logic that Auto_Pickup is merely a convenience feature that SHOULDN'T have impact on actual gameplay beyond that which you know will happen if you switch it on - i. e. you automatically pick up stuff. Like Darren said, it's pretty much a mess. The system would be much better served if not the turns were counted, but the segments. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4891 days, 9 hours, 43 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
I have decided (grudgingly!) that I will not use Auto_Pickup to shave off turns. The reason, is that most players do not use the Auto_Pickup function in their games. To me, it would be kind of like beating the game, using the 'patch' that eliminates uber-jackels. It's just not the same game that everyone else is playing. If there comes a day when most players start using the Auto_Pickup feature, then I will try again : ) Thanks. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Doalag Registered user Last page view: 5844 days, 9 hours, 53 minutes and 37 seconds ago. |
I tried a bit auto_pickup and its a pain if you consider you shouldn't forget to disable it often. I have anyway to pickup manually yourself because auto pickup for all isn't easy to manage and dangerous. About "fair standard" play, I feel a little strange that people use a front-end that gives some huge advantages, it's not how the author design it and it's obvious cheating. Ok ok I admit it I'm jealous but also a bit bored to get lesson of "fair play" when on another hand there's something not fair at all. :-D |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4062 days, 8 hours and 9 minutes ago. |
Talking about ADOM sage? Well, I've never used it so I don't know how huge the advantages actually are, but I think you have a good point. Shouldn't everyone who enters his characters into the Hall of Fame use the "official" versions...? You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4233 days, 7 hours, 26 minutes and 50 seconds ago. |
There's people on the Hall of Fame with piety abuse and extreme gremlin scumming and all sorts - I'm not sure ADOM Sage is worse than that. And quite a lot of players use it now - the biggest reasons for not using it are not knowing about it or being too lazy to try it. The only real play advantage is highlighting certain messages in different colours - mostly handy when herb training. Used to be I'd sit and read all output carefully - now I skim through a lot and only look out for keywords and colours. I actually miss out on stuff more these days (like armour damage or big criticals). I guess Sage has made me lazier. The other features to Sage just speed up certain things, like swapping places with non-hostiles and choosing teleport location. There is no actual gameplay advantage to them. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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FantomFang Registered user Last page view: 5792 days, 17 hours, 57 minutes and 5 seconds ago. |
I agree. I love Sage for that reason, all of its additional functions simply serve to speed up the gameplay a bit in general, so that i can play quicker w/out worrying about missing some things. For example, its so nice when you get stuck fighting thru breeders to simply be able to back into a corridor and hold the move button in their direction until they've been reduced to manageable numbers. In reality it doesn't serve as a gameplay advantage. It simply serves to increase my, and I'm sure others, enjoyment of the game by allowing play to sped up a tad , without negatively impacting the value of their successes. In fact, you might consider it a disadvantage in a way, because as the above poster said (sorry, can't see your name as I am editing here =p), it serves to make you a bit lazier. SO in the end its a trade-off, you sacrifice a little survivability for being able to play the game at a faster pace not to mention i like the way the walls are displayed more than in a normal game =p EDIT: Going for 2nd win [Edited 1 time, last edit on 4/8/2008 at 15:53 (GMT -5) by FantomFang] |
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Doalag Registered user Last page view: 5844 days, 9 hours, 53 minutes and 37 seconds ago. |
One part of the game is how much of your attention it can catch on something to hit you from elsewhere. This front end just spoil this part, you don't care to constantly check important stuff because the front end will warn you clearly about it, the original game doesn't. This constant check you save is more attention that can be put on something else. That said, ok I don't care that much and just regret I don't have the same! |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4891 days, 9 hours, 43 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
From what I've read about ADOM SAGE, I don't have the slightest problem with it. I did give it a try, but it wasn't as fast as the winbeta version, so I scrapped it. I consider any SAGE win to be exactly = to a non-SAGE win. The 'patch' on the other hand... Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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FantomFang Registered user Last page view: 5792 days, 17 hours, 57 minutes and 5 seconds ago. |
Wasn't as fast as the Winbeta version? what do you mean? can the commands be entered faster on Winbeta? Because if i recall correctly, ADOM Sage automatically starts with a buffer time between inputted commands and the result, that buffer time defaulting to 2/10 of a second. It's one of the many things in the configuration file. Maybe Winbeta doesn't default to that? Otherwise, how exactly does Winbeta run faster, because i really haven't noticed a difference between the two, as I have all of the versions on my comp (course, doing ADOM Sage on my flash drive does serve to slow it down some, but i can bring it onto any comp with no work required...so much fun playing ADOM on the school comps that have even solitaire blocked =P) Going for 2nd win |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4891 days, 9 hours, 43 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
> Wasn't as fast as the Winbeta version? what do > you mean? Specifically, I mean I have an oooold computer : ) I do not plan to upgrade, because the only things that I do with a computer are playing ADOM and listening to books. I care little for 3D games, or playing movies on a PC. It's been a long time since I fiddled with Sage, but if memory serves isn't it actually the linux version of adom? I think it runs in something like an emulator. I can't remember, because it was so long ago, but I remember it just worked more slowly on my PC. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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