Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / Spoilers / Restrictions
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Sulangatori Registered user Tourist Last page view: 1440 days, 12 hours, 29 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
There has been a lot of talk about restrictions and such lately, mostly regarding challenge games and scumming. I came to wonder: what "restrictions" do you have in a normal game (or abnormal, for that matter) when it comes to locations and places that you know based on your experience from previous games? As for me, I never use teleportation in order to bypass the golems in DF. I also never use teleportation in pyramid to directly reach the stairs, although I always head for the right direction, so this a sort of semi-"cheating". Same applies to the gremlin cave if I were find the potion without W/SoID or similar devices. Of course, there are hundreds of things that I do that require beforehand-knowledge, but I try avoiding some of them. It is alright if these things are (partly) mentioned in the game (fortune-cookies, mad minstrel, beggars etc). One thing that I do not like at all is the habit some players have of counting squares in order to reach an unknown room, i.e DF or Pyramid. Any views on matters? S. |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4067 days, 7 hours, 46 minutes and 39 seconds ago. |
If you wanted to seriously play like that, you'd have to act as if you didn't know TONS MORE of things, even all those things that have become second nature, like rough estimates of the strength of monsters and whether you should run or not, that kobold corpses make you sick, that metal girdles weighing 20 stones are always mithril girdles, and so on and so forth. Why pretend to be dumber than you are? We only ever got anywhere with our characters because we lost tons of them learning the lessons you only learn playing. You can't just discard your player experience. It's a boon and a curse - the moments we discover things about ADOM we didn't know about yet have become sparse. That said, I think we all have our own views on what should be done and what should not be done based on how we feel about the things we do, and while you could call people hypocrites who say "I don't do that, that's for pussies" while they keep doing something YOU think is even more pussy-like, why do so? To each his own, your mileage may vary, and so on. Things I do without thinking twice: - Wand of destruction ending - Teleport to locations in pregenerated maps I know - Use morgia and mareilon when stats aren't negatively modified or negatively modified through corruptions (i.e. no sickness or starvation training) - Teleport away the big casino guard - Use my knowledge about the items to determine whether I should equip or use one or not - Use my knowledge about the monsters to determine the most efficient strategy - ID dives to get the sceptre or to Filk - pacify the big room (sometimes) Things I rarely do - gremlin bomb ONLY as a last resort to save Khelly, up to 3000 gremlins; I still prefer getting drops and XP from monsters in the Tomb of the High Kings - go for precrownings - Wish engines - to be honest I don't know whether I'd do it, I never HAVE that many rings and potions of exchange Things I never do - early ID training; I use the VD or DD for that - stairhopping in the ID - ID dives in general if not for the sceptre or Filk - sickness/starvation training - ring of weakness (BORING AS FUCK) - pickpocketing beyond what is required for Thieves Guild entry - Dragon gold doubling - Casino restock - wand of door creation ending - Dump loads of casino money into Garth training - Smithing (except with a weaponsmith) - Archmage (EVEN MORE BORING) Discuss! You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! [Edited 1 time, last edit on 6/3/2008 at 10:02 (GMT -5) by Silfir] |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4238 days, 7 hours, 4 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
I do use teleportation in the pyramid, but I don't count squares - I just aim in the general direction of the stairs (and often miss). The fact is I can go through there perfectly safely anyway with detect traps, so it just cuts down on tedium. I also use a wand of digging on the battle bunny level to make things a lot easier - again, it doesn't give a big gameplay advantage, it just reduces boredom. I've TP raided DF before, and can't say I'd do it again - waiting till you're powerful enough to clear the place is more fun. Ring-dipping is something I don't do these days either, unless wanting to save Khelly. Things I do without thinking twice: -sickness training with herbs (not starvation though) -DF pool scumming for Khelly -use slot machine an extra turn to move casino guard -book-cast a *lot* -pickpocket a lot (no gremlin bombs though) For specific challenges I may use more scummy tactics, but I avoid them where possible. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Sulangatori Registered user Tourist Last page view: 1440 days, 12 hours, 29 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
I think you are being a bit harsh Silfir as it is clear that no one would abandon all beforehand-knowledge. Perhaps you missed the "some of" in my previous post. The interesting part is not determining whether or not to abandon all knowledge or not, but rather which knowledge you keep and which you prefer to be "new" each game. Bunny level is another location where I do not use teleportation or WoD. Makes it much more fun and you become a little more happier when you find that rabbit knife. |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4067 days, 7 hours, 46 minutes and 39 seconds ago. |
I'm scarred for life because my first character in "winning shape" lost his life to an über-battle bunny, so I ALWAYS immediately use the wand of digging (lacking that, teleportation) and slay each and every one of the pesky creatures before they can spread. There's no fun involved for me on that level - only the cold, paralyzing terror of having the beasts go out of control, to slaughter my character in the most gruesome way imaginable. Anyway, Sulangatori, what I was getting at with the non-sequitur in my post is there's no real reason to abandon any beforehand-knowledge save for personal preference. And that's an entirely valid reason, considering the wide variety of restrictions we all place ourselves under, mine included :) Darren: I wouldn't consider drinking Darkforge pools a scumming method, even. First, there's a very limited amount of pools there. Second, there's considerable amounts of risk involved, like losing valuable resistances, getting stuck with teleportitis (which is a major pain in the ass for wizards, even with control), getting doomed, losing stats and such - all this without being guaranteed even one wish. What was the chance to get a wish again? One in 54? Precrownings generally degenerate into scumming, either of stomafillia herbs or of monsters, but the fact that the artifact you could get can suck mightily makes it acceptable for me, only I don't want to go through the repetitive tasks still. EDIT: About the Darkforge raid. Generally, I consider getting the Darkforge stuff once I've gotten controlled teleportation, and don't consider it a necessity to be able to defeat the steel golems. Yet, teleport control isn't easily obtained witout ID scumming, at least if you also haven't got Food Preservation, so I'm usually level 15 at least if I do it. Which is an okay time to get a dragon scale mail, no? You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! [Edited 1 time, last edit on 6/3/2008 at 12:15 (GMT -5) by Silfir] |
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vogonpoet Registered user Last page view: 4955 days, 14 hours, 35 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
Well I for one always, ALWAYS, ask Thrundar about the Portal before, BEFORE, my PC has found the portal. I seem to recall someone (Molach or Soirana maybe??? ) saying they prefer to hit the portal first, then go back and ask about it. Surely thats just masochism? |
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Soirana Registered user Chaos Freak Last page view: 4148 days, 12 hours, 21 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
Not me. I always ask about portal ASAP. A root is a flower that disdains fame. Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931) |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5140 days, 12 hours, 58 minutes and 52 seconds ago. |
And I always ask about the portal ASAP. I've only seen the portal once in my ADOM career. |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4896 days, 9 hours, 21 minutes and 25 seconds ago. |
I like this thread, I haven't really ranked the scummy tactics I use, but I will try. Always do: Get TP + control asap, by any means possible (ID stairhop). I have played with and without controlled TP... I prefer with. Use my (near) memorization of every pre-generated map in the game, to do with whatever I wish. TP raiding DF is something I do in nearly every game. It is extrememely dangerous, and many PC's will die from this, so it's not a guarantee. It is a tactic that would make sense to me, if I were an adventurer. I think I would take the risk of getting killed by the golems, if I thought I had a chance of success. The rewards are just that nice : ) Use herbs to get stats to ~26. Use any disabling methods that come my way. Kill any NPC that gives me more benefit than loss. (Well, they shouldn't have gotten in my way.) Polymorph stupid brass bracers asap. Exploit fully, my knowledge of every skill I possess (except pickpockets of course). I will brew every potion known to man, I will ventriloquism any thing that moves, charm cats with tunes, even garden if possible! Sometimes do: Exploit the casino, by some method. Auto_Pickup, to save hassle (but not in limited turns games). ID hop for items (books). Starvation scumming, if I'm doing a rediculously hard challenge, in which the De stat is uber important : ) Exploit the fact that animated trees apearantly have ears. Never do : Pickpocket, smith, precrown, pray, ring dip, pursue an AoLS if I don't stumble upon one, train with Garth, drink a PoE to swap train stats, use killer bug (or any uber) pets, piety abuse, any wand ending, exploit the turn bug, intentional casino restock, or use any empowering technique that requires large numbers of turns. Probably more I'm just not remembering. I think the things I use and don't use, are based on wanting to move through the game more quickly. If something takes a lot of 'real life' time, it gets cut. If a tactic allows me to move forward (even into a more dangerous situation) I will most likely take it. Unless it is an obvious bug, like piety or heaps of dragon gold. Excluding pickpockets and praying doesn't fit into that catagory though, those just make the game too easy, and are not fun for me. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4238 days, 7 hours, 4 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
Just thought, one thing I always ALWAYS do is eat the Oracle, usually with a touch of sickness and starvation too. I have never played a char for which that is in any way role-playable. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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MrNiceguy Registered user Last page view: 5544 days, 53 minutes and 35 seconds ago. |
Tactics/exploits I almost always use: Smithing Book-casting to train Mana Pacifying the big room training stats with herbs and sickness (but not starvation) Dragon gold doubling (within limits - I usually only do this when there's just one dragon but not with tension rooms and vaults) Wish-hunt in pools Ring of Weakness to train strength - but only with strength-boosting corpses, not with Strained and Strained! load status. Stat training with Garth - but usually only within reason. Usually train St and Le, sometimes Wi too Rarely use: ID Scumming - Only if I can't save Khelly any other way Gremlin-bomb - Used to do this, but it's just too boring to do manually and I've had a couple of characters I let starve to death doing it with copy-pasting Pre-crowning - I rarely find altars that early, and when I do, I just don't usually bother Never use: Early ID Scumming - like I said above, only for saving Khelly. Post-Crowning - Hardly ever pre-crown, and by the time I'm crowned, there's already enough artifacts generated that post-crowning isn't really an option Teleport Raids - Any place that might raid-able, I just wait till I'm strong enough to handle it. The Pyramid levels themselves aren't that tough, except for the top level where raiding isn't an option. I read somewhere that the quality of weapons and armor in DF is based on what level the character is when you enter. I get much better equipment when I wait till I'm strong enough to tackle the Steel Golems. Casino Slot Machines - I don't really feel like propping something up on my keyboard for a couple of hours just to generate more money than I can carry anyway. Redundancy is good. And also good. |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4067 days, 7 hours, 46 minutes and 39 seconds ago. |
The level of the PC dictates the likelihood of magical affixes for the armor and weapons in Darkforge. I *think* it has no influence on the actual item type. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4238 days, 7 hours, 4 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
It also doesn't have a particularly huge effect - something like double the ego items for a L50 person compared with L1. So the difference between L10 and L20 would be quite minor. Mind you, over the course of many games you can see the difference I believe - I have had some very nice ego armour finds when leaving DarkForge off till quite late. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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vogonpoet Registered user Last page view: 4955 days, 14 hours, 35 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
Soirana - I just misremembered something you said in your DiG game apparently - seems Ireth did indeed go down to portal before asking about it... ChoaticChaos' uber-victorious Kane from the Halloween challenge also seems to have seen the portal... |
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Soirana Registered user Chaos Freak Last page view: 4148 days, 12 hours, 21 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
in DiG i did lots of unuasal things. It might have been part of antiscum policy or something... A root is a flower that disdains fame. Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931) |