Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / Spoilers / The Gut challenge
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 5350 days, 27 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
Now that elraz proved that it is actually possible to do the game gut's way, I decided to try atleast once more. Since it's already been done many times i'm gonna fly the game as ultra neutral and my 18th(!?!) char is of to a good start at 8k moves i'm already acquired nearly all the nessessary spells(magic map, tele, bolts, slow, death ray, cure light wounds, atlas, darkness, invis and lightning ball) and i'm off to raid the darkforge. So far only water orb, but i'd say that with invis+tele it's not gonna take long to kick the tower. The ultra needs a bit more attention than a regular win so 50k moves is my target at the moment. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 9/30/2008 at 09:50 (GMT -5) by Jhonka] |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 5350 days, 27 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
oh yeah, i've managed to acquire both plankets and thrundarr is gonna give me atleast one more. |
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vogonpoet Registered user Last page view: 4950 days, 7 hours, 58 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
Limited turns Ultra??? I predict frustration ahead... Still, if gut can slim down a regular ending to < 16 turns, I guess theoretically at least a sub 50k ultra is possible... Considering the fact that the first thing you do when minimizing turns is give up on the non-guaranteed (and indeed some guaranteed) artifacts, feeding the ratling will be a pain in the ass though... Relattively turn efficient artifacts: CoScience, Phial, Torc, Golden gladius, RoTHK, ankh, mummy wrapping, Nonnaks sword, elemental gauntlets... I suppose if you pass the EG and maybe do air temple before Keriax, you can give the gauntlets and the RoTHK to the demented one... |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 5350 days, 27 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
The correct stuff to feed the ratling with is wrapping, ankh, torc, vial, scythe and gladius. Eg does not need to be satisfied, graveyard does not need to be raided(tele the dude from it's place and handle the lever, other possibility is ventriloguism). These need to be passed, since the rothk take a lot of turns and i need all the time there is to scum for the aols. Atleast a couple times had to pickpocket lots of gremlins in order to find one(though usually it takes ~2k turns to do so) and finding a blink dog corpse is actually likely to be more time consuming than that!. Luckily i've already acquired the tele book, which is absolutely essential for this to succeed. The way i'm gonna try this is to first level as fast as possible(as long as possible in the bug temple) then id hop for books, mainly tele and invis and get the tele control intrisic. After this i'm of to the druid for torc and then to the darkforge for stuff and pyramid for the artifacts in there. Next to come is the first dive to coc and hopefully find bookshop and get around 20-25 lvl and fireproof blanket for the tower. Mystic gives socr and thrundarr blessed water potion(no time to run around to do his quests and i already have identify scroll) The possible points of catastrophic failure are the aols, fire tower and andor dakon himself since he needs to be blasted with arrows as spells are no good on him. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 9/30/2008 at 10:44 (GMT -5) by Jhonka] |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 5350 days, 27 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
The crown cannot be fed to ratling since i need the insta doom and curse for the hunt for the boarskull. I'll bomb the chaos dragon as soon as it hits darknight. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4233 days, 27 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
I'd severely recommend doing a regular short turns game before a frustrating attempt on an ultra so you get a full appreciation on just how few items you find. Scrolls of danger and wand of monster creation are going to be extremely hard to attain. 8k turns and having done the water temple is quite good - keep on with that and you can finish in under 30k, maybe under 25k. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 5350 days, 27 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
I've already collected monster creation as well as scroll of danger and since i'm playing neutral i've already collected 5 socr. I'm at ~14k turns now. So it's 36k to go and all that is left is rest of the temples(fire! earth! MANA!!! and air) and all the chaosguests and all the bosses. 50k seems a bit rough though. I'm especially afraid of the aols. The minute i find another fire resistance ring, i'm off to raid the darkforge for xp and then it's the acw. I've found 5 and emptied 3 vaults so far, hence the amount of stuff. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 9/30/2008 at 14:58 (GMT -5) by Jhonka] |
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Elraz Registered user Last page view: 5092 days, 17 hours, 18 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
I must agree with Darren, you should play for a regular win before trying and ultra, since it will help you alot to know how much time is needed for each location, which is still yet to come. Let`s take mana temple for example: my Gut Jr. thought it won`t take more then 700 - 800 turns to get the orb, but actully it took almost 1500, since the way down was battles. BDC may also take a while. I strongly advice not to feed the ratling before exploring CoC, since one GV with 2- 3 artifacts can save you alot of troubles finding them in other places. Don`t waste your time on the black druid or the arena, insead go for the graveyard, since with TP and magic mapping it can be done with less then 50 turns... anothe thing you should concider is the guild 2nd level. try to see if using the downstair trao is faster then using the other TP traps, since you don`t always activate the trap when you step on it. this level alone should take about 400 turns. Overall, I think that ultra ending can be done in 50K turns, but you`ll need alot of luck, or at least one good dipping... |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4233 days, 27 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
BDC doesn't have to be done - it's quite time-consuming and very corrupting. I agree on leaving feeding the ratling till very late, since sacrificing the likes of the pyramid artifacts is a big waste (AMW is especially useful in the mana temple). Andy can be acid balled by the way, but a couple of wishes for speed would be advised. Jhonka, I don't quite understand why you say you need an AoLS when you've done the water temple already. Another thing to consider is don't bother killing anything that doesn't reward you in some way. A lot of time gets wasted exploring dungeons and killing enemies. Only kill big xp things and skip through dungeons as much as possible. Cast from hp if needs be and just keep teleporting and magic mapping (farsight helps too). Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 5350 days, 27 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
number 18 is definetly NOT going for ultra. I guess that wasn't a dark threat room full of chaos servants after all. Bells started to ring when the firewall appeared and no dying sage was found. :( It seems that something is up when things start to look too good... Guess I'll go hang myself now |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 5350 days, 27 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
So the next attempt would be: Level up till around 13-15(bug temple, first kill in lavenlothehl)-> id hop for books Darkforge-> Pyramid-> first CoC dive, AOLS and water orb-> darkforge XP -> Fire orb That'll keep me busy for the next couple(dozen) chars. Good thing though, I seem to get to the darkforge pillaging very often. Around two thirds get there. So i should probably drink the pools and hope for a wish. EDIT: I emptied the lesser vaults because with no AOLS the game is not getting anywhere, so no hurry till amulet is what i'm thinking. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 9/30/2008 at 19:17 (GMT -5) by Jhonka] |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4891 days, 2 hours, 44 minutes and 42 seconds ago. |
With my anemic wizards, I only tried to clear DF if I had lightning ball. My approach was to roll-scum for a TP book, do BUGWIL for exp., ID for BD corpse, TP raid DF for armor, Dwarftown to open Griffyard, get PoEH reward, get water orb, RotHK, ToEF, loot casino, cat ring if available, kill the AKW for exp., get the rest of the orbs and then finish. I think pool sipping would be your best bet for getting an early wish, but you would not likely have the piety to handle dooming. I hope you don't resort to dragon gold doubling, ring dipping, or something like that. As long as your victory is under 80,000 turns, you will still get the big points bonus, and likely be near the top of the HoF in the 'ultras' catagory. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Elraz Registered user Last page view: 5092 days, 17 hours, 18 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
Darren wrote: "BDC doesn't have to be done - it's quite time-consuming and very corrupting." I was under the impression that you have to kill Barny in order to get Needle, and you need Needle in order to get the quest from AP. Can you only kill AKW and pick Needle? BTW, with TP and magic mapping\farsight BDC only took me about 200 turns,so I concider it good time investment anyway, mostly for the XP (killing Barny and the wyrms should give you around 2500K xp) |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4891 days, 2 hours, 44 minutes and 42 seconds ago. |
> Can you only kill AKW and pick Needle? Nope. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 5350 days, 27 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
Tele book is quite likely to be found quite fast when id hopping so i'm not gonna roll scum for that. If no wish from pools is acquired, gremlin bomb is the only real alternative to get the aols fast enough. At the moment it seems that even with id hopping for telebook it's possible to have level 16-17 wizard with looted DF and pyramid at around 5k moves. What are the other most time consuming events besides aols and chaosguests. If I happen to find potions of invis and unholy water, the bosses themselves are quite manageable with very little trouble. |
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vogonpoet Registered user Last page view: 4950 days, 7 hours, 58 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
NPC first kill recommended... I like the Cloaked Ratling |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 5350 days, 27 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
I like either mugger, outlaw leader, cutpurse or beggar. None of them are found too frequently and muggers and beggars are not found at all besides the hole. |
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vogonpoet Registered user Last page view: 4950 days, 7 hours, 58 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
I guess by the time you do the Filk quest an extra level of the ID is only a few magic maps a teleport and a climb, say 4 or 5 turns spent per level... but you have to go back up as well... So every cutpurse you kill adds another 10 (assuming not very lucky with MMap and < finding) turns. Fair enough, no big deal. Children work well too of course, especially with a bit of ventriloquism (sp.?). [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/1/2008 at 08:27 (GMT -5) by vogonpoet] |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4233 days, 27 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
gut, there's no points bonus for quick ultras as far as I'm aware. The reward for ending in under 80k turns only applies to gate-closers who leave the chain. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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vogonpoet Registered user Last page view: 4950 days, 7 hours, 58 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
So unlike the normal ending, kudos from a bunch of anonymous nerds on the interwebs is the only motivation? Doh. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/1/2008 at 09:27 (GMT -5) by vogonpoet] |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 5350 days, 27 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
It's the challenge that still makes me play it. The thrill of completing. The possibility to overdo myself and... fine it's kudos from a bunch of anonymous nerds on the interwebs. |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4891 days, 2 hours, 44 minutes and 42 seconds ago. |
> I like either mugger, outlaw leader, cutpurse or beggar See, my beggar kills are always way too high. I mean waaaay too high : ) I didn't realize that, about no limited turns bonus to your score in an ultra. Why, I wonder? If anyone ascends to the level of diety in under 80,000 turns, they should get a few extra points, I say! What makes this even worse to stomache, is the fact that piety scumming would probably yield huge point gains. Ugh! Regarding scumming tactics, what I really meant was that I was hoping there wouldn't be 10 wishes, piety so high that it nearly loops around, 20 precrowns, or something like that. I think pickpocketing gremlins is fine. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/1/2008 at 14:04 (GMT -5) by gut] |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 5350 days, 27 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
I found out that the ultimate gut challenge is quite annoying for 50k turns so I'm bending over for extra 10k. Being a deity under 60k will have to suffice. Now i have a potential winner, though it's not a wizard but a dark elven necromancer. I'm at 40k turns with chaos guests down as well as bug cave and DF and next going for the tower. Getting aols took roughly 20k turns, drained all pools and had to rely on gremlin bombing and lastly ring dipping :[. EDIT: does the aols work if uncursed/cursed? [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/13/2008 at 17:29 (GMT -5) by Jhonka] |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4891 days, 2 hours, 44 minutes and 42 seconds ago. |
Yep, even cursed. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4062 days, 1 hour, 9 minutes and 56 seconds ago. |
blessed AoLS - full HP uncursed AoLS - half HP cursed AoLS - ONE HP So if you know what's good for you, don't use a cursed one! You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 5350 days, 27 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
I'm getting my ass kicked by acw. I had to use aols, every healing potion and blinded it for a couple dozen turns, and that was just to get away. Later i found dragon slaying ammo, but my necro got it's ass kicked again, this time i had lured it down to the 3rd floor, so teleing from it was enough. I'm 24lvl with 160hp, though that won't help much since one energy blast takes roughly 90 hp. How did gut gut the acw with a spellcaster? |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4233 days, 27 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
Stun ray - it does wonders. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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tipo mastr Registered user Last page view: 5627 days, 1 hour, 18 minutes and 38 seconds ago. |
one random question about aols...what happens if say your weight kills you? does it just kill you again when you get revived? |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4891 days, 2 hours, 44 minutes and 42 seconds ago. |
Stun ray + really lucky iceball find + barely getting my Wi stat to 32 + a couple of lucky turns where I had to cast iceball with the ACW standing right beside me. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 5350 days, 27 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
stunray + necros sad hp + blindness potion(lucky me!) + iceball+ one bad turn=one dead necro :( |
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