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Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / Spoilers / Speed questions

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Jbc
Unregistered user
Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 at 00:25 (GMT -5)

Is there a max speed you can bring your speed up to by eating quickling corpses, with out scumming?

Also, does anyone know: How exactly does speed effect xp?
Twinge
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5166 days, 15 hours and 3 seconds ago.
Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 at 01:19 (GMT -5)

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe exp. gains are based around 100 speed like so: having 50 speed doubles exp. gains, having 200 speed halves exp. gains.

Based on the other thread, you already have more speed than you'll ever really need. But to go into more detail: generally speaking it is difficult to get to more than about 160 base speed from eating corpses without employing some addition scumming tactics; it is especially hard past 180.

You can, of course, work with this further if desired. Being Strained! and Satiated will lower your speed a fair chunk allowing more room for gains. Wearing Boots of the Slow Shuffle while eating is also an easy way to bump it higher. If you really want to push it, you can slow yourself and probably pull some 300 odd speed, though this is really unnecessary.

Athletics, Corruptions, Class Powers, Dexterity, or equipment can then boost it even further.
Jbc
Unregistered user
Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 at 01:46 (GMT -5)

Well I was curious if quicklings were better speed the greater craw bugs. The most I have got out the bugs with no scumming is 152.

If 160 is cap for quicklings then I would have to side with the bugs. As they raise dex, and are easier to get to, although the bugs are very dangerous.

Jbc
Unregistered user
Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 at 01:53 (GMT -5)

Now you got me wondering...

How much speed does dex give?
Jbc
Unregistered user
Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 at 03:01 (GMT -5)

Ok I get 2 speed from equipping orb of air so I am gonna guess 2 speed per 5 dex.

But it seem there is min dex needed before it starts, to increase speed.
Twinge
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Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 at 06:29 (GMT -5)

I don't know the specifics of the dex impact on speed offhand, I'd have to test and/or look it up.

Killer Bugs give slightly more speed than a Quickling Lord on average. Quicklings and Greater Claw Bugs average the same. Quickling Royalty gives slightly more than Killer Bugs. All corpse speed gains are equally affected by the caps.

If you have the time to herb your willpower back up, bugs are a lot easier to deal with IMO. It's good to clear the temple anyway for the guaranteed SoCR and other loot.
Jbc
Unregistered user
Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 at 12:15 (GMT -5)

"bugs are a lot easier to deal with IMO"

Well, the only thing that makes them easier is that you don't have to be corrupted to get to them.

If you have spells then the bugs are much easier then if you are a pure melee. But something that can dish out 8 - 12 attacks ignores PV and can do hundreds of points of damage in a single attack round is much scarier then any quickling, in my opinon.
Jbc
Unregistered user
Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 at 12:26 (GMT -5)

Sorry that was 1 speed per 5 dex. On the my other post.
Jbc
Unregistered user
Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 at 12:28 (GMT -5)

"Killer Bugs give slightly more speed than a Quickling Lord on average. "

Killer bugs, I believe only give one to speed. Maybe more if they are blessed, not sure.

How much do quickling lords give?
Jbc
Unregistered user
Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 at 12:30 (GMT -5)

I'll have to pay more attention next time I dine on bugs. Maybe they give more if you have a lower speed.

But I am not really talking about hunting killer bugs. I am talking about greater craw bugs.
Twinge
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Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 at 17:49 (GMT -5)

Killer Bugs gives +4 speed (conditional on you current speed) and +6 Dex (conditional on your current Dex). Quickling Lords gives 2-5 speed randomly. Greater Claw Bugs gives 2 (conditional) each, and up to 3 Dex. B/U/C status does not matter, which is true of most corpses (the main examples where it does matter being Dark Sages and Lightning Lizards).
Jbc
Unregistered user
Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 at 20:20 (GMT -5)

You won't get those bonuses to speed and dex very long. It won't take very long before each corpses will only give you 1 dex and/or 1 speed or nothing at all.

To get to 140+ speed and 35+ dex, without scumming. I have to kill 300 - 400 (with a 100 food preservation of course) greater craw bugs. Which results in the deaths of 30 - 50 killer bugs.

If quicklings don't have the same diminishing returns then it might actually be faster with them. *If* you want to deal with the needed corruptions.

--
After giving it some thought, the most optimal, although time consuming method, would be to level your speed on quicklings first. Then go do the bugs.

This is because of the dex bonus. The speed from you the dex you get off the bugs will prevent your base speed from reaching it un-scummed potential. It would be better to raise your speed to it's max first then get the dex.

--

I also have a theory on the dex. I and *guessing* that since 10 is an average stat, every 5 points of dex above 10 will give you 1 point of speed.

Jbc
Unregistered user
Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 at 20:27 (GMT -5)

Also, on athletics and the speed talents, it would be better to hold off on them until after you max your base speed.

Jbc
Unregistered user
Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 at 20:28 (GMT -5)

And..

If you are gonna boost speed like this, then there is no need for the raven sign. In the long run the added speed would make no difference.
Darren Grey
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4211 days, 8 hours, 3 minutes and 14 seconds ago.
Posted on Friday, December 25, 2009 at 23:39 (GMT -5)

Haha, are you really so confident that you can get every character to that stage? The Raven starsign is all about improving survivability *before* you have the opportunity to become godlike. After you get to the point where you start worrying about an extra 10 speed on top of 160 then you should probably wonder what you really need that speed for. There are no special relativistic effects in ADOM :P
Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse."
Twinge
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Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 00:56 (GMT -5)

I'll say it only once more: They ALL use the same formula, and quicklings have exactly the same diminishing returns as anything else does.

No worrying about speed talents, althetics, dex, etc. will even *remotely* compared to slow monster abuse, or even simply show shuffle abuse. They are minor factors, and you should take that early speed if it'll help you survive. (Personally I generally prefer Long Stride.)

Generally I just accept whatever ~150 odd speed I end up with after gorging on bugs, because it's already more than enough, and not only is getting more a hassle, it also is less important the more you get.
Jbc
Unregistered user
Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 01:00 (GMT -5)

"Haha, are you really so confident that you can get every character to that stage?"

I never said anything like that, dude. I don't understand how you got that impression. I am talking theoretically here. It is not practical if you goal is "survivability". But if someone is playing with the express purpose of speed buffing then the raven sign is more of hindrance then a boon. You'd get more speed (in a manner) out of the sword sign.

"There are no special relativistic effects in ADOM :P "

ADOM is a game and character buffing is an aspect I enjoy. It is similar to the challenges; how fast can you make your character or can you stay in ID until you are level 50. The only thing relative here is enjoyment of the game.


I mean I don't get what you are trying to get at here. I understand that this is not a practical approach to *beating* the game. But then I am not talking about beating the game, I am talking about speed buffing.



Jbc
Unregistered user
Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 01:12 (GMT -5)

"Generally I just accept whatever ~150 odd speed " - Twinge

150 speed is more then enough for the game. But I don't play the game just to beat it. I enjoy, herbing, smiting, hunting giants, the speed... I enjoy the character buffing. That's what I want and I don't see anything wrong with that.

But now that I am done with the farmer, I am gonna work on something else.

Maybe a troll necromancer, that uses a staff.

Jbc
Unregistered user
Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 01:17 (GMT -5)

I found out two things interesting about drakelings.

D49 is extremely cold meaning you enter D50 extremely slow. And fireball traps can warm a drakeling up
Jbc
Registered user

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4880 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes and 19 seconds ago.
Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 02:06 (GMT -5)

Or maybe a hurtling monk. I bet that bugger could get fast.
Jbc
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4880 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes and 19 seconds ago.
Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 04:43 (GMT -5)

Ok the minimum dex need to start and see speed form dex is not 10. I just generated that hurtling monk 15 dex with a 100 speed.

I'll keep an eye on it and see what happens. I suppose the herbs will tell me.
Jbc
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4880 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes and 19 seconds ago.
Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 04:45 (GMT -5)

Hurtling monk is dead..lol

Generating a new one. (and maybe a few more after that)
Jbc
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4880 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes and 19 seconds ago.
Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 04:47 (GMT -5)

Now that is odd: This one has a 20 dex and 102 speed. Now I have no clue how dex effects speed.

[Edited 1 time, last edit on 12/26/2009 at 04:47 (GMT -5) by Jbc]
Jbc
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4880 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes and 19 seconds ago.
Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 04:54 (GMT -5)

Ok here I go, traded my staff for some rocks and now it's off to SMC.
Jbc
Registered user

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4880 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes and 19 seconds ago.
Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 05:07 (GMT -5)

Wait, do monks get speed as they level?

I knew they got faster but I didn't realize it was in the form of speed.

[Edited 1 time, last edit on 12/26/2009 at 05:07 (GMT -5) by Jbc]
Darren Grey
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4211 days, 8 hours, 3 minutes and 14 seconds ago.
Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 06:44 (GMT -5)

Yeah, monks get a speed boost every few levels. It's not a huge amount, but obviously it would interfere with your attempts to get ultimate speed.

If you are after the ultimate scumming ofcorpses then consider this: drakelings can keep their speed as low as they like with a wand of cold aimed at themselves. You can get infinite booze from beggars in the bandit town (1 booze per beggar if you give them 50g, though you have to remove the surplus beggars by whatever means you prefer). Drakelings can then warm up again with a wand of fire or failed alchemy (and indeed, can get an extra 200 speed above the norm).

I must say though, an archmage might be easier to do in certain respects, and would indeed lead to the greatest speed possible (around 10000, though I hear that after 1000 it becomes literally irrelevant due to how the ADOM speed system works).
Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse."
Jbc
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4880 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes and 19 seconds ago.
Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 12:41 (GMT -5)

"I must say though, an archmage might be easier" - Darren Grey

Probably, I am taking a break from mages though. Archmage would be a project in and of itself.

The monk's speed boost, since I don't have to use any talents or use a birth sign to get it, does not really interfere (although the faster I get to the quicklings the better). It does however make it harder to understand how dex effects speed.

My main problem now it getting the right corruption. I can't do the one that gives speed unless I cook the quickling corpses then remove the corruption before dining. Although, taking a cooking set into the tree would be the only thing I take.

So far (after generating a few more monks) it seems that at dex 18 you get 1 extra speed then at 20 you get another extra speed. From there I am not sure.
Twinge
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5166 days, 15 hours and 3 seconds ago.
Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 15:42 (GMT -5)

Monk speed bonuses are based on your level.
Jbc@work
Unregistered user
Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 16:38 (GMT -5)

"drakelings can keep their speed as low as they like with a wand of cold aimed at themselves." - Darren Grey

Drakelings do have the upper hand, in speed buffing. d49 drop my speed from 189 to 38. Drakelings are also able to control hunger easier & safer, due to the acid spit.

But for the quickling eating, because of the corruptions needed, I think hurtling will work better. Beside I just got done with a long series of drakeling farmers. It's time for a change.

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