Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / Spoilers / Puritans II
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Ekaterin Moderator on this forum Last page view: 5765 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes and 39 seconds ago. |
(See the "Puritans" thread in the ADOM forum for a bit more discussion on this topic. I'm putting this in the Spoilers forum because I discuss spoily abusive strategies.) What exactly constitutes abuse / bug exploitation in ADOM? In the Nethack newsgroup, there seems to be general agreement that anything involving going behind the game's back (savescumming and the like) is cheating, while exploiting a bug is not cheating but is abusive. The problem is that it's not always easy to tell whether something is a bug or not, especially without access to the source code. Doing the bug temple seems to be regarded as abusive, although I'm not clear on just which aspects of it are a problem. I'll eat the corpses to get my Dx to 99, but I know I really shouldn't, since this won't be possible in 1.0.1. Is it also abusive to kill the bugs by being invisible and fighting solely with bolt spells? The other dodgy strategy I'm very fond of is casting healing spells from hp (I guess everyone knows that when you do this, you gain more than you lose). This has saved my characters' lives numerous times, but sadly when I explained it to some friends (not ADOMers, but familiar with other roguelikes) they all said it was a bug. What other strategies are considered abusive? I've heard people talking about pool scumming - does this mean that ADOM puritans won't drink from pools? That surely isn't bug exploitation, so what's wrong with it? |
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Locke Registered user Treasure hunter Last page view: 7898 days, 14 hours, 32 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Nah, I don't consider bolting the bugs while being invis is abusive. That is virtually a must if you wanna clear it out and still be alive. :) Pool scumming is, AFAIK, used in combination with save scumming. You save the game right before you drink, if it's bad, reload, if it's good, save, drink again, and so on. Locke Cole |
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Max Unregistered user |
Unless you got a great weapon and are a pure fighter.Barbarians trmendous blow springs to mind. |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3755 days, 15 hours, 50 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
Missiles work. I recently went in there with a level one hurthling and killed five or six bugs before they killed me. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Locke Registered user Treasure hunter Last page view: 7898 days, 14 hours, 32 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Yes well, with a tremendous blow missing... Ouch. And missiles work yes, but those too, will miss sometimes. And missing in a thight spot... Ouch again. :) Locke Cole |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3755 days, 15 hours, 50 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
Two words: Unerring Missiles. If you have enough of them, that is. Or enough HP to take a round of attacks from a superbug. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Duke Ravage Registered user Gravebane Zombie Last page view: 5662 days, 19 hours, 10 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
regarding the bug temple: IMO it's not abusive or cheating or exploitation or anything. if you just go in and do it its fine. but if you go in and wait for a bunch of bugs to reproduce and then kill em for the xp, i don't see a problem. and invis + bolt, thats fine. theres nothing wrong with that; i don't see how something could be wrong with it. i think though that casting bolt spells should reveal your location to the mobs tho. healing off of HP? i see no problem at all. well, it could be seen as bad, but it does have dangers (it takes HP before it gives it, thus you can get suck your last HP trying to heal yourself.) and pool scumming, yea, if you're doing like Locke said, thats bad. and going there and just sucking the pool dry in one go isn't that good either, but it has major dangers so it's not as bad. usually when i find a pool i'll take a sip ("Hmm, a pool of water... Odd colors though. Oh well, I haven't drank in days, and if I don't drink some of this stuff I'll probably die of dehydration anyways, even if it does turn out to be poisionious...") and maybe take a sip next time I go through ("I didn't die last time, so I suppose this pool's safe enough. I'm thirsty again. Mmmm... green water... tasty... Great! Pure beer!!") and so on. ivan.sourceforge.net |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3755 days, 15 hours, 50 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
If it's early game I always drain pools. Half the time, this means I have to find ways to deal with dooming, cursing, aging, poison, sickness...you get the point. Anyways, I think there's enough risk in draining pools to make it a viable strategy--not cheating. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Locke Registered user Treasure hunter Last page view: 7898 days, 14 hours, 32 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
I never drain pools in the early game. I save the pools for later, when I can remove curse and dooming, and if I actually need a wish from a pool. Otherwise I stay away from 'em. Locke Cole |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3755 days, 15 hours, 50 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
I'm always too scared to drink from pools in the late game after I already have acid resistance from an ant corpse, lev. 2 fire resistence from a fire lizard, posion resistence from a spider... If it's early game, and I die from a bad pool effect, I haven't got much to lose. On the other hand, losing poison resistence and getting hit by a yellow ooze... Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Ekaterin Moderator on this forum Last page view: 5765 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes and 39 seconds ago. |
I'll drain pools in the early game hoping for intrinsic free action, because although you can die from a bad pool effect, you can also die from being paralysed. In the late game, I tend to have lots of attributes from wearing artifacts, so losing the intrinsics isn't so bad (except for teleport control, and that's more annoying than fatal). Duke, yes I've died too trying to heal myself from hp, but the thing is that even Heal only costs ~40 pp, so as long as you have more than 20 hp (and you've teleported away from whatever was beating you), you can get fully healed just by casting Heal a lot, and you won't even need pp to do it. Anyway, my friend's reaction to having this strategy explained to him was something like "That's got to be a bug!". I think it's been reported but not resolved. |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 10 hours, 49 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
Actualy I think Thomas said somewhere that he would make casting spells from HP also abuse your Mana stat in the next version. That should prevent the healing spell abuse at least. Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Runemaster Unregistered user |
I also think that casting spells from HP is very abusive because then spellcasters can ignore their PP easily as long as they have some kind of healing spell (even Cure Light Wounds is enough). I think it would better if overcasting spells abused Toughness because Mana doesn't matter if you are casting spells from HP. Mana affects mostly on PP while Toughness has very big effect on HP. |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3755 days, 15 hours, 50 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
Hmmm... That would make more sense, too. It makes more sense for the spellcaster to be hurt physically (toughness) than mentally (mana or willpower) when casting spells from HP (physical attribute). Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Duke Ravage Registered user Gravebane Zombie Last page view: 5662 days, 19 hours, 10 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
IMO it should just randomly abuse/drain an attribute. ivan.sourceforge.net |
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 Dougy Registered user What is the deal with cards? Last page view: 5829 days, 19 hours, 57 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
Agreed. Toughness would probably the most logical one. Or perhaps just lose 1hp permanantly per cast that goes into the hp. As it is, it just trains mana. It would make the mana temple a bit more difficult for the spellcasters. DougyDougy - Dougy - DougyDougy |