Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / General / Theory of Balance
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Sengoku Registered user Last page view: 8141 days, 9 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
I think balance is the correct alignment since it does not create conflict with other alignments. Also if you take into account that everythings works best when it's balanced. EG, Not being creative enough will mean that your out of touch of imagination so you'll never discover new ideas. Being too creative will distance yourself from reality and will mean you don't take into account the constraints etc. Being nasty will make people despise you and won't want to be with you. Being too nice will make people take you for granted and won't appracitiate the good things you do - they also may end up walking over you. Thinking too much about other people will make you extroverted and forget about things that matter to you, you may end up sacrificing yourself too much - no inner strength, too reliant upon others, no self control. Thinking about yourself too much will leave you introverted and distant from other people - shy, lonely etc. So in this respect I say that balance in everything is good and therefore the best to follow! What are your thoughts on this? |
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J. Unregistered user |
Agreed. I even prefer playing neutrals in ADOM (or at least convert to neutral ASAP). |
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Sengoku Registered user Last page view: 8141 days, 9 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
Yes, in ADOM you can benifit from both ends of the game. For example as a neutal in ADOM you can... * Join the thieves guild * Dig up the odd grave * Pick pocket a few pockets Also * Gain non-chaotic items (Rolf's Champion) * Gain non-chaotic quests (Old Barberian) |
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Palagran Registered user Furry Hybrid Last page view: 6572 days, 7 hours, 23 minutes and 9 seconds ago. |
*Nods* I agree, mostly. |
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Sengoku Registered user Last page view: 8141 days, 9 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
Does anyone actually diagree? I hope was hoping for a bit of a debate to be honest :) Palagran, you quothed "I agree, mostly" That may mean not fully, which parts do you disagree with?? |
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BonghBaya Registered user Last page view: 8107 days, 23 hours, 13 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
that neutrality (in adom) can get quite boring on the long run.. i mean what makes a role-playing game so interesting is that you actually take different roles, disgustingly evil chaotics and disgustingly honorable lawfuls. in real life i think almost everyone is more or less balanced (maybe because that "benefit from both ends" =). of course it's the easiest path in adom, but it also reduces the difference between each game, which i don't find that interesting. oh yes, and i also don't understand why to play only 'magic-users' or 'female gnomish wizards', come on, there's quite a bunch of interesting combinations to choose from. (and afterall wizards get too easy to play too fast..) [Edited at 07:48, Wednesday, November 14, 2001 by BonghBaya] mYh34Df E3L5liK3aFRiSb3e |
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J. Unregistered user |
Interesting combinations ? Like, say, female hurthling beastfighter ? |
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Palagran Registered user Furry Hybrid Last page view: 6572 days, 7 hours, 23 minutes and 9 seconds ago. |
Ah, yer lookin' for a debate. I'm a tough one, so be careful. ;) I'm a rational skeptic. I didn't want to agree entirely incase there was something I was overlooking at the time. That's me being anal. However, if you force me to disagree with you on something... *Thinks* Okay, how about this? >>Balance in everything is good.<< Balance can also be achieved by doing lawful acts and chaotic acts separately. Say you take great pains to save a boy's life. How would a balanced person act in such a situation? After saving the boy, going out and robbing someone? Would s/he just not save the boy in the first place? Would s/he get halfway through saving the boy's life and then stop? I didn't put much thought into this. It's early and I'm still waking up. :P |
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Duke Ravage Unregistered user |
my favorite combonations: high elven bards, human or orcish rangers, high elven fighters (starting with elven chain mail is a good thing), & dwarven mindcrafters (dwarves get a boost to willpower). |
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J. Unregistered user |
Eh... How about trollish mindcrafter ? That's my latest try. I've heard mindcrafters are quite puny (at least in the beginning) so I decided (just for fun) to try compensating that with a tough nut race. Not too bad, even without healing-skill it just about rushed through the PC without much sweat. Too bad I couldn't save the puppy (got "You sense the death of blah..." almost as soon as I got to PC:6). Fortunately there was a neutral altar in PC:2 (and I got some nice equipment from the orc vault in PC:6). Saving yrriggs gained me healing-skill (not that easy, Yrriggs hits pretty hard, fortunately Jharod was on the room with downstairs) and neutrality. Just too bad Trolls get XL so slowly... Still, let's see how far I can get with that one. BTW I have heard mindcrafters are really crap spellcasters. How crap actually (ignoring the fact that it's a TROLL mindcrafter) ? Can I at least use healing spells ? |
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Sengoku Registered user Last page view: 8141 days, 9 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
I'd say that applying balance when saving a boy means that you'd save the boy but expect a reward afterwards, maybe from his farther or something. Balance doesn't necesserly mean not completing a task but can mean the intentions are not always fully lawful or chaotic, but both to gain both ends of the reward. |
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Palagran Registered user Furry Hybrid Last page view: 6572 days, 7 hours, 23 minutes and 9 seconds ago. |
Okay... Breaking the law is unlawful, and obeying the law is lawful. What about "good somaritan" laws? These state that if you have the opportunity to help out someone in need, you must, else you'll get fined/arrested. Also, is law based on an arbitrary system of morals or written laws? (This assumes that chaotic acts are simply the opposite and balance is in between.) Either way, lawful acts change from place to place, as laws are different as well morals/ethics. ... Even your answer to this question is based on opinion, so perhaps the better question is, "What determines law universally?" I believe this can only be answered via philosophy. Philosophy isn't an exact script, so cannot logically be implimented as a written law. By this hypothesis, law is indefinite. Indefinite things are most often ignored by rationalists. (The validity of logic is outside the scope of this discussion. You'll have to start another discussion or search elsewhere for that.) Though, this depends on how much one relies on Objectivism. Anyway, this would destroy the entire law and chaos system, since chaos and balance are dependant upon law (from above). |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 9 days, 3 hours, 55 minutes and 38 seconds ago. |
I think the "universal" law is simply "survival of the fittest". Just like animals humans tend to accept authority from a strong leader. Once a strong leader emerge people will usualy accept the laws this leader lay down (if not he is removed and replaced by another untill one that is strong enough to get his will though is in charge). Over time the ideals of this leader will rubb off on his subjects, and become "universal" for that group of people, subsequent leaders will be influenced by the first one, and so a distinct ideal of right and wrong will establish itself among that group of people over time. Groups with simmilar ideas might merge over time, or displace weaker groups with conflicting ideas. Over time we get to where we are today with only a handfull of "major" value systems (lots of small differences though), all grouped geographicaly together (more or less). If two world views are conflicting only the "strongest" are the "right" one. Either because most people believe in it, or because it is apealing to people, so that they prefeer to adopt the one view at the expense of the other once they become aware of the alternative. Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Amanda Sedai Registered user Last page view: 8134 days, 1 hour, 3 minutes and 15 seconds ago. |
I think balance is probably the best one for describing real life, but if we were in a world where good and bad were as clearly defined as they are in ADOM, wouldn't it be best to be lawful? I mean, it's kind of stupid to say that saving someone's life gives you the right to kill someone without losing your status as a "good" person. So far I haven't tried to play a neutral character, but I was wondering, wouldn't be kind of hard to keep them balanced? With law, you get L+ by only doing lawful things. The opposite is true for chaos. But with balance, aren't you always going one way or the other? And about interesting combinations, like I said in the roleplaying thread, trollish merchants are cool. (Why isn't anyone else posting in the RP thread?!) -Amanda Sedai, a save-scumming newbie. (Hey, at least I saved that little girl's dog. Gimme some credit... ;-)) |
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Duke Ravage Registered user Gravebane Zombie Last page view: 5873 days, 17 hours, 44 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
yea, i don't want this to be just a work of me and amanda... ivan.sourceforge.net |
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Palagran Registered user Furry Hybrid Last page view: 6572 days, 7 hours, 23 minutes and 9 seconds ago. |
Jan: That's an interesting insight. If defying law is chaos, then what is chaotic with that law? Humans tend to allow all humans to survive, even the ones that Nature would naturally cycle out on its own. A criple, blind, inbred transvestite with one arm can procreate. Now /that's/ chaotic. :) |
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Jacknife Registered user Last page view: 8347 days, 18 hours, 27 minutes and 54 seconds ago. |
Theres a good topic for a new thread... -Peace Out, War In -Jacknife |
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J. Unregistered user |
Well, I've been playing neutrals for most part. Even when I start a chaotic char (mostly trolls for their brute force) I usually quickly turn neutral by doing some good deeds and then keep that way. I don't find being neutral a problem, after all there are not many lawful monsters around (mostly dwarves and people in terinyo) and if there are they are mostly peaceful or easily avoided. |
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C Unregistered user |
I just play neutrals because lawful monsters don't bite and the chaotic monsters don't bite. Really I play any alighnment (I've won ULE and AE) |
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Prickle Pear Unregistered user |
Neutality Rocks!!! "Eh! You don't belong here."--- Ag-nu the Captain of the Guard for the main dude in p6 1/2 |
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Greatr White Unicorn Unregistered user |
Neutrality are for cowards who dare not directly oppose one of the extreme alignments. They may be peaceful and not make trouble, but would they be willing to die to fight for their cause? Chaos are for fools who desire nothing but power and do not see things for what they really are, and they often distort aspects of reality according to how they see it fit. Law is the hardest path to follow and it often goes unrewarded, but a lawful person knows that true virtue lies within and not through power and manipulation. Law has allies, heroes and honour! If any alignment is the bravest it has to be Law! |
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Prickle Pear Unregistered user |
Yep, I'm a coward! |
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C Unregistered user |
well I used to debate for a school... If there's too much law nothing will happen (order, peace) if there is too much chaos too much will happen. If there was only law, than for some Ns it would get boring and they might fight (become chaotic) If there was to much chaos (and then, and then, and then, and then, and then) people would get tired of it and turn lawful. Think of things in life, everything is balanced, what you do you recive an equal, in this life on Earth, or your next in this Universe. Karma, you might get it in a diffrent form, you kick a little kid, instead you might lose $20 or something like that. Life is balanced! You are born, you live and you die. Hey kids in alegrba I you use (I hear Prick's fav Xibit song!)balance to solve the problem. So in the end some Ns might fight for their rights (causes). Eh I tried please don't hit me for it, I'm only 13! Prickle you too! [Edited 4 times, last edit on 11/6/2002 at 17:17 (GMT -5) by its author] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 2 minutes and 8 seconds ago. |
C: What's an N? Dunno how much I believe in Karma. Didn't Stalin die in his sleep? |
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Prickle Pear Unregistered user |
Let me handle this C, an N is short for Neutral and who is stalin? Karma is things getting back at you. |
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Chaco the Taco man Unregistered user |
C always shortens things,\my song "We all live ina ghetto, ghetto!" "We all live ina ghetto, so please send donations!!!!" MTV plays good song at 1 your time, you honestly didn't know that? [Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/6/2002 at 18:08 (GMT -5) by its author] |
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C Unregistered user |
Er, no, I knew prickle, was on! We'll finish this latter. |
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Prickle Pear Unregistered user |
Whoo! Xbit! |
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Greatr White Unicorn Unregistered user |
Hmmm, with Law dominating the world I don't think money or weapons would exist anymore. The whole world would function as one, targetting global problems and resolving them one by one with everyone doing thier part. The problem now is that there are too many people who would take advantage of such a situation and get things for free without contributing to the global force. With greater goals in reach once the world is united I think we'd all be too exited to get bored. |
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C(unlogged at school Unregistered user |
What about outside this world, somewhere else in this universe. In time we would, a long time. |
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