Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / General / Religion
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1658 days, 2 hours, 1 minute and 13 seconds ago. |
I hate organized religion. My belief is that everyone makes there formulates his or her own ideas about the cosmos. Religion is one. The big bang is another. The numerous posts about beliefs are yet another. The list goes on. My idea about the cosmos is that a creator created it all. That's it. My ideas take a long time to formulate completely. I borrow from here and there. I believe that we were created. The earth would have exploded by now if it was billions of years old I believe bible because scientists have proved it was truthful. I believe that the bible should not be taken THAT seriously (You all should know what I mean by now) I believe that people should be allowed to express themselves by any means possible (short of killing, drugs, and mass suicide) I believe that morals are vitally important and that they are quickly becoming as cookid-cutter as 50's suburbia. I believe that I am getting too sleepy to post any more. I believe that I'll be back in a few hours I believe that I'd like some comments about my beliefs Believe it. |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7314 days, 6 hours, 17 minutes and 25 seconds ago. |
Belief with religion should deffinatly be a personnal one. Organized religion can have a habbit of irratating poeple especially if it is preached or forced onto others. I get annoyed about Christianity saying we should do good things or go to hell, I say do good things unconditionally - if I go to hell, so be it. Ryan quothed: "I believe bible because scientists have proved it was truthful" Luke enquires: How could science of all things prove that? When did they prove it? LS |
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Greatr White Unicorn Unregistered user |
I don't think religion is organised, there are many religions and within each religion each person has differing veiws. It is clear that everyone must look within to find thier religion, your insight never lies - but the book called the bible could in all honesty be written by anyone for all I know. The Earth doesn't explode for no reason Ryan! |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1658 days, 2 hours, 1 minute and 13 seconds ago. |
Explode was a bad choice of words. I meant like to die out or something. Even if the earth didn't die out, humanity would. Do you think that we could have survived for THAT long with all the crap that we have? Sickness, greediness, lust, etc. Not to mention that wonderful thing we do called MASS HOMICIDE I am against war. I am an isolationist when it comes to war. Too bad I'm the exact oppisite by nature (I KNOW I've proved that at some time.) Luke, there have been cases where they have proven that the bible is historically accurate. When Moses was put in the Nile, the bible said that she covered it with pitch or sludge or something |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1658 days, 2 hours, 1 minute and 13 seconds ago. |
I was looking at your post luke. "I say do good things unconditianally. If I go to hell, so be it." Good stuff. Even though I believe the bible (what I remember of it,) I don't carry one around with me. I don't quote it either. I read it for guidelines on how to live my life. GWU, Even if it is fake, It's stll good reading. It's uplifting and it has some good teachings. |
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SuperLobster Registered user The Mad Monk Last page view: 7712 days, 9 hours, 21 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
The only thing wrong with the planet and causing it to become uninhabitable is the humans plaguing it. Dump off about 95% of the people (that still leaves a couple of hundred million people) and the earth can get back it's healthy greenish blue glow! We ARE what is causing the earth to, as Ryan put it so eloquently, explode. As for my view on the bible, it is of course a grouping of semi-historical "facts" as viewed (and explained) by the people of the time. It's just exaggerated upon because the people doing the writing had no good logical explanations for the events they were viewing (like cavemen attributing lightning storms as the wrath of the sky gods). Religions today are just a throwback to those days when people couldn't explain the causes in the world around them. Which is why many people "Thank God" for the good things in their life and blame themselves or others for the bad. It also makes a good excuse to do malicious acts to others because you have a higher power than yourself sanctioning it. Sorry, didn't mean to get so long winded... You want to fight? Fight me! HAHAHA |
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Gareth Unregistered user |
I belive that we are just one tiny tiny tiny part of the universe... and that there are millions of other civilisations out there |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1658 days, 2 hours, 1 minute and 13 seconds ago. |
Logically, there HAS to be a planet with the same air particles that would make habitation flourish SOMEWHERE. It's a big place. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 6 hours, 33 minutes and 50 seconds ago. |
Luke: "Do good or go to Hell." I think that is an incorrect interpretation of Christ's teachings and, for that matter, an incorrect view of the teachings of most Christian churches -- although I admit that the media and many lay people try to portray that idea. IMHO, the Bible, Christ and most churches claim that, in and of themselves, nobody deserves salvation. One cannot "make up" for doing wrong. The idea is that if you honestly repent doing wrong things, and ask forgiveness, then you will be forgiven. Being "good" is simply a side effect of having repented -- one of the aspects of truly repenting for having done "wrong" is the desire (and willingness to try) not to do wrong again. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/27/2002 at 09:18 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Greatr White Unicorn Unregistered user |
Hmmmm, Christianity has a way of shattering self-esteem, I would never class myself as unworthy of salvation. We were put into the human body and knew greed and hatred out of genetics and human nature, we had no choice. Some of us learn to see beyond illusions and strive to make the place better. I for another do not need awareness of heaven to help me strive, but I do not accept that we are unworthy - asking for forgiveness is one thing, but to do it out of hope of going to heaven is another. God would I believe be able to see beyond our words and really see what we're after. Justice comes to everyone in the end. |
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calvin Unregistered user |
"Explode was a bad choice of words. I meant like to die out or something. Even if the earth didn't die out, humanity would. Do you think that we could have survived for THAT long with all the crap that we have? Sickness, greediness, lust, etc. Not to mention that wonderful thing we do called MASS HOMICIDE" but civilized humanity(civilization is what destroys the earth primitive man were no worse then apes) has only been around for a tiny itty bitty fraction of the earths lifetime. hell, land walking animals have only been around for a tiny fraction of earths lifetime, and we have been speeding up earths death for as long as were have been here. and what about carbon dating methods that say some bones are millions of years old? according to the bible earth is like, what, 5000 years old? |
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Greatr White Unicorn Unregistered user |
The bible says a lot of rubbish. I believe that if Christians take it too seriously they're are just trying to get a first class ticket into heaven. It seems that some of the Christians I know are actually inside very afraid people and need God in there life for security, doesn't anyone find that really sad? |
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calvin Unregistered user |
and dude, lust is one of the things keeping humanity alive. |
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J. Registered user You'll never get rid of me Last page view: 5667 days, 7 hours, 6 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
Good points everyone. I also think that the bible is a nice collection of teachings. They are of course a bit old, but still worth a read. And I myself do not take the bible so seriously. Think of it this way: 2000 years ago if you were to try to teach people, would it make more sense to tell white little lies to make them believe you(as in somebody created the whole mess in 6 days) or then try to explain to them that humans have evolved from apes? If God inspired people to write down His teaching in words to make the bible I think God knew the best way to get people to take heed from advice 2000 years ago. (Hope that some of that made sense, it's kind of hard to think about something complicated in a foreign language) If you're feeling happy, don't worry, it'll go away. Originally posted by noob: "I'm everytime amazed how you people know to exploit every single little bug (or not-bug) for elaborated scumming tatics even if the feature seems completely useless or bad." |
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calvin Unregistered user |
what do you mean foreign language? they spoke english back then, i know because once i saw a cartoon of jesus and his diciples talking to people about god and they talked in english. |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7314 days, 6 hours, 17 minutes and 25 seconds ago. |
Greater White, try not too be too harsh, a lot of people fear what they don't know and need something to believe in to fill in the void. I agree with some of the teachings of the bible and how it reaches out to many people and gives them a sense of hope. I also disagree with religion being against lust, it is essential and is perfectly natural for humans to feel it - to deny our impulses is to deny what God created. LS |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 6 hours, 33 minutes and 50 seconds ago. |
Re: Worthiness: GWU: Do you think one can do "good" works to make up for doing "bad" things? To rephrase, BMB, Christianity does not teach that you are unworthy of salvation. The tricky part is what makes a person worthy. I believe people are worthy of salvation because they are forgiven, not because they have done enough "good" things in their lives to counterbalance the "bad." As for self-esteem; these beliefs would only hurt one's self-esteem if the person thought s/he was infallible. One can have a high self-esteem, while still acknowledging that mistakes can (and will) be made. Low self-esteem and guilt occur when a person can't accept their mistakes and forgive themselves. This is true whether these mistakes are social, spiritual, moral, emotional, mental or any other type of mistake. Should you feel bad or guilty if you can't figure out how to fix a motor? Should you cover up this fact? Should you ask the instructor for help? [Edited 4 times, last edit on 11/29/2002 at 12:10 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 6 hours, 33 minutes and 50 seconds ago. |
Re: Motivation. GWU: IMHO, Christianity teaches one should seek forgiveness because one acknowledges that one has done wrong. It doesn't work for a person to say they are sorry, simply to be saved; a person truly has to admit that they have done things that need forgiving -- s/he has to repent. I agree with you. I believe God can see beyond our words to what we are after. On an aside, what do you mean when you say you believe Justice comes to all in the end? What do you believe Justice to be? |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7314 days, 6 hours, 17 minutes and 25 seconds ago. |
I believe our actions connect us with God more than words as they speak louder. If we repent physically rather than just words then it is like fixing the motor, rather than constantly bothering the instructor. I really think God would love us to believe we are worthy of forgiving ourselves rather getting him to do it everytime. I believe justice is like karma, it will make things go your way if your intentions are true. Weather after death or in life itself. LS |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 6 hours, 33 minutes and 50 seconds ago. |
Luke, maybe I misunderstand what you are saying. I do not think repentence is verbal or physical. I think repentance is spiritual. IMHO, an internal, spiritual repentence may lead to repentant words and actions, but I do not think simply mouthing the words or going through the actions will necessarily lead to true repentence. A person may feel guilty about the impact his or her actions have had on another, and s/he may try to make it up to the victims. Still, if the victimizer still feels that their actions were justified, and would do them again, then, IMHO, s/he does not think the actions are wrong, nor would this situation show repentence. I think forgiving yourself is very important. I'm not sure how I implied otherwise . . . Do you believe God wants us to simply forgive ourselves and be done with it? That is, to not ask/seek the forgiveness of those we have wronged, including God, Itself? |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 6 hours, 33 minutes and 50 seconds ago. |
Luke: Re Justice Do you think then that there is no forgiveness? That you, yourself, must pay the full price of every wrong you have done (either in this life or the next)? In what way can this price be paid? P.S. Are you also Greater White Unicorn? [Edited 1 time, last edit on 12/2/2002 at 15:35 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7314 days, 6 hours, 17 minutes and 25 seconds ago. |
If we truly mean it when we forgive ourselves then I believe God would agree with us. I don't really see how a wrong would offend God as such though as it is only human to make mistakes and he created humans. I believe for every good intention we do moves us closer to God for every bad intention we do moves us away. The bad things we do are paid for depending on how we did it, what we intended and how we felt about it afterwards. I'm not sure how spiritual rentence would work, a lot of concepts with the spirit is unconscience to the average human, if you feel deep down that it is wrong and don't fully consciencely know it would that count as repentation? IMO the price is paid through final judgement in the afterlife when we've lived so many lives, as well as fate smiling or frowning upon you. In a sense I do not believe every wrong is paid for, but rather it is paid for if it is repeated and taken as part of yourself. P.S. No LS |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 6 hours, 33 minutes and 50 seconds ago. |
I was using the term Spiritual to contrast it to verbal or Physical repentence. I was trying to use those words to define the different ways of repenting you were describing. You talked about actions speaking louder than words. I thought you meant you thought it better for people to make up for doing "wrong" through actions, rather than through words (simply saying "I'm sorry" I assume) IMHO, I do not think either makes up for doing "wrong." A person can go through the actions simply to avoid consequences/reprisals or to assuage guilt. They may continue to consider their actions justified. At no point will they necessarily believe or acknowledge what they had done to be wrong. That acknowledgement is what I mean by spiritual or true repentance. Call it what you like. I can't look at somebody else, and know that they are insincere about their repentance, but I can look at myself, and, prsumably, God would know about everybody. [Edited 3 times, last edit on 12/3/2002 at 11:04 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 6 hours, 33 minutes and 50 seconds ago. |
Re: Justice "'Bad' actions move us away, 'good' actions move us closer." . . . So do you believe we can make up for doing 'bad' without actually having to repent for those 'bad' actions? "How we pay for doing a 'bad' thing depends on how we did it and how we feel about having done it." What kind of feelings would alleviate the price? What kind of feelings would aggravate the price? |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 6 hours, 33 minutes and 50 seconds ago. |
Re: Forgiveness "If we truly forgive ourselves, then I think God would agree with us." Hmmm, I'm do not entirely agree. I am inferring that you mean self forgiveness is enough. To use a simplistic scenario: Imagine I have had little sleep the night before, have not eaten all day, and have had a rough day at work. On the Tube ride home, a little kid is laughing her head off while I'm trying to finally relax and read my paper. After half an hour, I might very well snap and scream at the toddler to shut up, scaring her half to death. Now, I might easily be able to forgive myself, since I know my situation -- my blood sugar level was off, I was exhausted and irritable, and I made a mistake -- but I do not think forgiving myself is enough. I think I need to apologize to the little girl and to her father. |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 20 hours, 56 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
I think we often focus on ourselves too much... we judge things on the basis of what we think and observe. What's really needed is an absolute standard of behavior, at least when it comes to specific situations. Mine is basically "Love God and love your neighbor as yourself"... basic, but it works (except when I mess up, but then everybody does that). Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Greatr White Unicorn Unregistered user |
An absolute standard behavior? Sounds like the borg to me. We don't focus on ourselves in enough which is why we mess up and don't learn as effectively as we do. Love yourself before anything else too, otherwise you won't know how to give it out. |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 20 hours, 56 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
That's what the "as yourself" part is all about. How are you supposed to love anyone if you can't live with yourself? An absolute standard of behavior isn't a list of rules to follow... it's more like a foundation from which you make your own rules. In an ideal world everyone would work from the same foundation, but this is Earth, and they don't. I think "love GOd and your neighbor" is a good enough foundation for anyone. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7314 days, 6 hours, 17 minutes and 25 seconds ago. |
Caladriel: It depends really what you class as repent. Doing a good act in my opinion doesn't directly repent but it clouds over your bad side and in turn the bad things you have done, if not repeated, fade out into your past self. Feelings of guilt and sorrow play a part in paying for the bad things, but acting upon them goes even further. Feelings of power and happiness after doing a bad act would deffinatly aggravate the price. I do not think though that the bad act stays with you like concrete, it really depends on how big the act was. They say your arua changes colours when your attitude changes, maybe you are judged by the overall average of what you do and feel. LS |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7314 days, 6 hours, 17 minutes and 25 seconds ago. |
Yes I agree with you on that case, but inside you would know it was unjust and self-forgiveness would not be completely possible without the action of asking the farther and girl for forgiveness. Randomly asking something like God to forgive you on the other hand, would not IMO be good enough. LS |
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