Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / General / Astral Projection
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7313 days, 10 hours, 49 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
Anyone heard of this? Astral projection is supposed to happen every time we sleep, it when we dream and our conscienceness leaves our sleeping body and roams the Astral or dream world. It is when we become aware our within our dreams that we lucid dream and experience little limitations such as being able to fly and breathe underwater. Astral projection is when we are totally aware that we are dreaming and 'wake up' within our dream as our astral form. When this happens, we are in effect our soul and we can do anything in astral space. It is said in scientific terms to be the paralell universe, and you can visit physical counter part locations that exist on Earth even in space, only it is all in astral form. What are peoples opinion on this so far? I have not tried it yet as peoples opinions make me weary of this but I just wanted to see what you people thought. LS |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 2 days, 20 hours, 27 minutes and 41 seconds ago. |
That stuff about entering astral space while dreaming sounds like some new-age mumbo jumbo, but yeah I've hard about astral projection... Suposedly it's done by entering a medetative state with allow you to leave your body, or rather project your contiousnes (or soul if you will) outside of your body, float around and observe (some even say interact with) events far away... If you are realy intersted I suggest you do a few web-seaches or even better read a book on the subject. Just remember to be critical of your sources... There are people out where who will explain in great detail how a giant space ship is going to come and spirit us all off to a better place (thoguh I believe that particular cult all but killed it self off), and stuff like that. As far as I'm concerned it's all wishfull thinking and/or drug induced halucinations... P.S. It's got nothing to do with dreams, you can be aware in a dream, you can even know that you are dreaming and controll them to a scertain extent, but it's stull just a dream. A halucination caused by more or less random brain waves to "compensate" for the lack of sensory input while you sleep. Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7313 days, 10 hours, 49 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
It may sound pretty far out and cosmic but I've done a lot of research into this and when several sources all seem to say the same thing it becomes harder to doubt. I'm ever sceptical though, and I will not try this out until I've disciplined my mind to the required extent and done more research. Concentration is a vital virtue though in maintaining the astral experience hence why drugs should be avoided when practicing such states of mind. Drugs are said to damage the astral form and make concentration and focusing a hell of a lot harder. Even soft drugs like marijuana have can heavy effect as these damage essential brain funtions. LS |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7313 days, 10 hours, 49 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
Dreams have many theories behind them, some people can predict the future through them, others can discover more about themselves but a great deal can't even remember them half the time. As you become more aware of your dreams, by maybe keeping a dream log, you stand more chance of remembering to question the dream world when your in it, and it turn learning to lucid dream more often. Dreams are just dreams but it can be used as a stepping stone to the astral realm. Once you've got expert at lucid dreaming there are various methods of projecting. Here's one source if anyone is curious: http://www.spiritonline.com/files/messages/15/15.html LS |
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Möwe Registered user Last page view: 6610 days, 22 hours, 48 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
I think lucid dreams are a lot of fun. I'm just not very good at it. At the rare occasions that I have lucid dreams it's always a balancing act between waking up and keeping awareness. I'm sure you can learn a lot from dreams. I did some reading at the source you gave. I found the dinstinction between lucid dreams and OBEs not very clear to me. A lot of those OBEs can pretty well be explained by some kind of lucid dream. I guess I doubt the excistence of the astral parallel world. I mean to travel with your 'astral body' through the 'astral world' and doing all kinds of things and changing the 'astral counterparts' of objects should have an influence on the physical world. Otherwise it's just not consistent. |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7313 days, 10 hours, 49 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
I agree that there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference bewteen lucid and OBE's. I've heard that OBE's seem a lot more real than dreams, the senses, emotions and sensations are apparently a lot more stronger and real in the astral as opposed to the lucid dreaming. Here's some of the listed differences in Lucid Dreams Vs OBE:
LS |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 2 days, 20 hours, 27 minutes and 41 seconds ago. |
Call me a sceptc, but if it is ineed possible to leave ones body and gather infomation on the astral planes I just think someone would have been eable to prove it conclusively by now... It doesn't help matters that half the "believers" seems to be what I'd describe as "nuts" (you know astral travel to Venus where there's a paradise on the astral plane and had children with some aliens who lived there and what not)... I do my best not to resort to ridiculing the beliefes of others, but it just seems VERY far-fetched to me... I'm by no means an expert on the matter, but what little information I've seen seems to come form X-files type shows or dubvious web-sites. Not what I would consider reliable sources... Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin [Edited 2 times, last edit on 2/6/2003 at 20:53 (GMT -5) by Jan Erik] |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7313 days, 10 hours, 49 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
If you think it's far fetched so far you should hear some of the experiences. I've heard one person say they stayed in the Astral for a week but woke up only having one hour passed. Another story says someone went into God's house and talked with him face to face. I doubt this one though. Other people have met up in the Astral and talked about it the next day in physical reality. This is as close to proving it exists as one can get. Scientists would refer to the Astral realm as the paralell universe and is proved to exist, but they don't call it the Astral and no concrete proof can really validate something that exists in ones mind. You are wise to be sceptical and this is pretty far out, but it's got me interested enough to research into. The human belief system could be wrong and I only know one way to find out for sure. LS |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 2 days, 20 hours, 27 minutes and 41 seconds ago. |
Oh belief is a powerfull force indeed, if you believe something stronly enough your sub-contience will do everyting in it's power to make it come true... IMHO strong belief is just another form of self-hypnosis... It's the basis of a lot of the aledged "power" of rutual magic for example. If you truly believe that a scertain rutual will have a scertain effect wheter it's healing or pain then your body will comply with those expectations (within it's power naturaly (this "placebo" effect can for example reduce discomfort or even speed up natural healing, but not cure something that wouldn't normaly heal naturaly anyway. It can even cause pain if the retual is a curse)... Same as if you where hypnotized to react in a scertain way to a scertain condition. Same thing if you go into a trance expecting to project into the astral plane, your mind will conjure up some "halucinations" (lack of better word) to match your expectations. So this "astral plane" might exist as it where, but only as a state of mind and anyting you experience there is just a prodct of your own imagination... Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7313 days, 10 hours, 49 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
So this "astral plane" might exist as it where, but only as a state of mind and anyting you experience there is just a prodct of your own imagination... As a skeptic I'd this was a pretty deffinate statement. But you could have a point since lucid dreaming is within ones mind and said to be close to the astral. Although they'd disagree and state that projecting is out of body and out of mind, that your one with your soul and liberated from all thought and sense everything in it's pure form, not the biologically altered reality via our human senses, brain functions etc. That's why they say it's more real than physical reality. Me being a true skeptic cannot agree with either until I've done more research and experienced it personnally. LS |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 2 days, 20 hours, 27 minutes and 41 seconds ago. |
Ok, so maybe I'm not a true skeptic seeng as I have my own theory on the subject... Love to hear if you discover anyting though, but seeng as you admit to beeng sketical yourself I doubht you'll experience anything... IMHO that will only happen if you "let go" and buy into the idea of astral travel whole heartedly. That alone is the reason I don't believe in it... Unless something is "real" enough to prove without having to take a "leap of faith" first then I won't buy it. To bad it's next to impossible to simply desicide to believe in something realy. Belief have been proven to have a strong effect on your body if nothing else... Would have been nice to be eable to controll this to the extent that you could produce a "placebo" effect at will, in effect healing yourself of minor discomforts like stress, stuff muscles, mild headaces and what not... Good mental dicipline might be eable to produce the same results, but sadly that's not one of my strong points either... I try though, I'm rarely sick, though it's hard to tell if it's becuse I have a good constitution or becuse I believe I have a good constitution ;) Guess I'm straying a bit from the topic though... Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 1 hour, 28 minutes and 41 seconds ago. |
I've studied quite a bit about OBE's, mostly because I'm one of the "50-75%" of the population that is able to become fully conscious while in REM sleep--fairly often, for me. My theory? It's probably a product of a fairly active brain... a good imagination and a lot of neural connections. As a result, I've always been fascinated by altered states of consciousness, and of course the most familiar of them, sleep. I don't think the "astral plane" exists physically, but that doesn't make it any less real--just like an idea can have reality without being tangible. The brain is something we have only begun to understand. Like any other piece of physical matter, under certain conditions, an individual's brain will react in certain ways--one of those reactions being an out-of-body experience. The "spooky" common elements in such experiences may just result from the fact that we're all human, and our brains are all the same basic model. If the "astral plane" exists, it exists as an idea--a collection of thoughts in an individual's mind. About precognitive dreams... Often, while in an altered state of consciousness--including sleep--the brain works "on its own", without conscious direction. This often enables the brain to make intuitive leaps--to know things that would take you hours to figure out if you were fully conscious. It works a lot like intuition, when you "just have a feeling" about something. Often, if you think back on it, there's a rather long trail of logic that could have been followed to reach the same conclusion... only your brain beat you to the punch while you were asleep. Okay, sorry. I'm rambling. :) I'll stop now... I probably didn't make a bit of sense. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 11 hours, 6 minutes and 11 seconds ago. |
I lucid dream all the time. My subconscious has used the same imagery so often in my dreams that I now recognize it immediately. I guess my life is in a rut, since the same images keep coming up. It would be great if I could witness events on this world, or even communicate to somebody from this world while in an Astral plane. At the moment, though, if I am the only one who can journey to this world, and it has no impact on the physical world, then I will call it my imagination or subconscious. |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7313 days, 10 hours, 49 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
After some research it seems the arguement of AP being only in the mind is one of the most common ones around. Most who have tried it say it is extremely difficult to prove but can know the difference between it being in the mind or reality just through the sheer experience. Here's a link of me raising doubt in another forum: http://www.astralforum.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=683 LS |
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J Unregistered user |
Lucid dreams are really funny when you can control and predict everything that's going to happen in them :) Sometimes I have dreams that I don't really recognize myself as dreams but think their true and still I control them by wanting something not to happen and then almost immediately it happens in the dream :) And in the morning I say to myself: "self, why didn't I recognize my dream as a dream, it was SO obvious it couldn't have been for real!". It's kind of hard for me to believe these astral projection thingies when I haven't had them myself and I kind of cannot imagine them for real (if only I'd time to read all the links you've been sending in Luke!)... I try to convince myself that what I cannot imagine has been imagined by others while taking some hallucinogenics or something. But I'm a pretty sceptic person in every aspect and I believe very little that hasn't been proved 100% true by modern science such as with physical laws or something. I think I think too much mathematically and statistically:) [Edited 1 time, last edit on 2/12/2003 at 15:25 (GMT -5) by its author] |
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-Iridia- Unregistered user |
Lemme say this:... Once you can prove to me, via statistical evidence or multiple scientific studies (and not testimonials), that anything that happens on the "astral plane" has any effect on what happens here, then I'll say it could be more than just "in our heads". But until then? I'll enjoy my dreams and not read too much into them. |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7313 days, 10 hours, 49 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
You'll just have to enjoy your dreams and not read too much into them. Unfortunatly I seriously doubt something like this can be proven to such a scientific degree. It would be like trying to prove God exists, you only stand a chance if you give it a chance and find it out for yourself. Wheather astral projection is in your head or not, the experience is apparently unique and uncomparable to anything in the physical. It doesn't require a leap of faith to take it up or be labelled as anything less than sane. But it does require determination and an open and very disciplined mind. LS |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7313 days, 10 hours, 49 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
Recently I had an amzing dream where I flew just for a moment, in the morning I felt more free and warm inside. It's a long one so I'm going to make a new thread called dreams. I believe dreams are within your mind, but you can develop clarity and recall with practive. Once you take control of your dreams and become lucid dreaming you can bend the rules - ever seen the Matrix? Free your mind... LS |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 2 days, 20 hours, 27 minutes and 41 seconds ago. |
I've actualy read some of those links... Even tried some of the meditation/mind focusing tecniques... Don't realy expect anyting to happen, but what the heck, the worst that can happen is that I fall asleep :p Blocking out all stray thoughs and focusing entierly on your breath is very relaxing if nothing else... Would recomend it if you have trouble falling asleep actualy. Rather than twisting and turning trying to get comfortable while your mind keeps racing all over the place, just do that simple mind focusing exercice for 10-15 minutes and you should feela lot more relaxed afterwards... Astral Projection SHOUD be relatively easy to "prove" actualy... Just have someone write or draw something on a piece of paper, place it in a locked room. Then someone could project into that room look at that paper and then say what's on it when they "wake up"... The fact that no one seems to have been eable to pull this off reliably in a newtral environment does not speak in it's favour... The impression I got from reading that forum you linked to was that most of them wheren't to concerned about proving it either, they would rather just "enjoy the ride" rather than poke around in the "real" world looking for stuff they could double check was realy there and such. Even if I somehow have such an experience myself I would need to find some way to prove to myself that it was not just a dream... Though granted beeng eable to trigger a fun/positive "dream" on demand wouldn't be so bad either, but I would still like to know for sure just what it was... Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7313 days, 10 hours, 49 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
I'm likely to enjoy the ride at first just to feel the experience, but if I ever perfected the art I would prove it not just to convince myself but hopefully to others too. But don't hold your breath, it has taken some years to project even for the first time, others are lucky and comes to them naturally. Here's one experiment that's still in progress, the results show some signs of success but I'm still doubtful myself: http://www.astralforum.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=635 LS |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 1 hour, 28 minutes and 41 seconds ago. |
I'd be doubtful too... the probability against it happening randomly isn't high enough. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 2 days, 20 hours, 27 minutes and 41 seconds ago. |
Well if they want to "prove" Astral Projection they are going about it the hard way... Zeroing in on someone in India based only on theyr forum name? Sounds a but like trying to prove the theory of relativity while balansing on one hand... A good start would be to simply have a friend that live close by write somethign random on a piece of paper each night and see if you could read any of them or something... Then there are considerably less things that could go wrong (you know the person, you know the location etc.)... Of coarse once they manage to pull THAT off reliably they will have to figure out a way to convince others they are simply not making it up, but it would be a good start... Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7313 days, 10 hours, 49 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
I agree Jan Erik. If I ever manage to pull that one off it will leave many still uncertain. Proving things like that over the forum for an expert is easier than it sounds however, all they need is a single thought like their name and they'll home it on it. But reading in the astral is a common problem, people say the letters move about a lot and it's like learning to read again. Your experiment sounds good, but using symbols instead would probably be better, or at least big letters to make it easier for them to see. LS |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 1 hour, 28 minutes and 41 seconds ago. |
Colors would be much, much easier. They're much more recognizable. Of course, since there are only ten or so basic colors, you would have to go by percentages. Identifying the correct color one time wouldn't be enough; you'd have to do it repeatedly more than 20% of the time. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7313 days, 10 hours, 49 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
Wouldn't identifying the correct colours 100% of the time prove more certain? LS |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 1 hour, 28 minutes and 41 seconds ago. |
Yes, of course. But I doubt it could be done. 20% is just double the chances you'd have if it were totally random. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7313 days, 10 hours, 49 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
Hmmm, merely double the chances wouldn't convince me. I'd be more inclined to prove it within the range of 80% - 100%, that way it would convince even the most doubtful. When I'm ready I'll try my best to take part in the experiment but I'll need some of you to volunteer. Alternately, if any of you people just so happen to master astral projection before I do then feel welcome to prove it to us. LS |