Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / General / ADOM and Relationships
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7171 days, 3 hours, 32 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
I think you're failing to recognise the consequences of your example, but so be it. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 10 hours, 45 minutes and 44 seconds ago. |
I can't bring myself to read those huge posts. One benefit of the 20 line thing is that it forces you to be concise. You have to whittle your ideas to their bare bones, if I may mix metaphors. Often, this will cause you to realize better ways of expressing your ideas etc. Okay, I'm done with my soapbox speech. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 10 hours, 45 minutes and 44 seconds ago. |
Lavos: Re: Evolution and Religion in Schools I think Creationism is more of a belief within a religion, rather than a religion itself. I don't know of any religion that preaches evolution. I have no problem with lessons about religions, but, IMHO, teaching Creationism in a Science class would be preaching a religion's beliefs. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 10 hours, 45 minutes and 44 seconds ago. |
Lamaros: Re: My Answer What later post gave you hope that I had a different answer? How did its idea differ? I assume you realized my answer is that I do not believe we have the power to support ourselves through adversity, nor the will to resist all temptation. In answer to your second question, if you have lived a perfectly moral life without God, then I think you can call it your own, rather than God's. Have you lived a perfectly moral life? |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 1 hour, 8 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
If you want to count atheism/deism/agnosticism as religions (I suppose "worldviews" would be a better word for it), then, yes, there are religions which "preach" evolution. I think it is unfair to those who are religious not to mention the creation theory, as well as evolution, when teaching science. The government is not supposed to be non-religious... it is supposed to be separate from religion (i.e., it doesn't interfere with religion, and religion doesn't interfere with it). In this case, the only way to be neutral is not to ignore all mention of religion but to provide information from all major viewpoints... even when it comes to science. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 10 hours, 45 minutes and 44 seconds ago. |
Lavos, I only skimmed your huge post, so I am extrapolating. I think it is too simplistic to say that God allows evil and bad things so that we can appreciate good things. Personally, I think that allowing us freewill has something to do with it. If God prevented anybody from doing evil, would we have free will? As for why does God allow bad things to happen to good people . . . Well, first, would you explain why you think God should not let bad things happen to good people? I have thoughts on how God may meet your reasons in other ways. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/26/2003 at 14:19 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 10 hours, 45 minutes and 44 seconds ago. |
Iridia: Didn't we beat Creationism vs evolution to death in Creationism and Original Sin? Ah well. Which viewpoints do you consider major? Hinduism, Buddhism and a slew of Indigenous American beliefs have their own creation stories that do not involve God. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/26/2003 at 14:55 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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C<U> Unregistered user |
This thread has gone sooo off topic. I think evil was created by either 'acident' or by God trying to make a basic attempt at true balance and it going wrong. You could *easily* mix creationism and evelution. |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7098 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes and 21 seconds ago. |
When did i say that, "God allows evil and bad things so that we can appreciate good things." I was saying there is no possible way that the world could be made in a way that the only things you can feel are good, ever. People enjoy things, because they are scary, (roller coasters, etc.) and without anything to be scared of, what would be fun? (: |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 1 hour, 8 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Major viewpoints? Probably anything believed by more than 5% of the world's population... popular enough that schoolchildren ought to be informed about them. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7098 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes and 21 seconds ago. |
Yeah, sounds good to me. But why cant they do that? Any reason? (: |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 1 hour, 8 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Probably because people misinterpret "separation of church and state" to mean ignoring religion completely... not simply being neutral. It's quite a natural position to take, especially when you see the results of a state-controlled church or a church-controlled state... but it isn't fair to those of us who are religious--quite possibly the majority. Enforced atheism doesn't work any more than enforced Christianity does; thankfully, America hasn't gone nearly that far. Die Gedanken sind Frei [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/26/2003 at 22:55 (GMT -5) by Iridia] |
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Lazy Cal Unregistered user |
Enforced Atheism would not be Separation of church and state. IMHO, separation of Church and state means that the State shall not endorse, encourage or oppress any religion. Do you have a way of teaching the beliefs of a religion in a way that does not endorse it? Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the Ten commandments issue in Alabama? |
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 Arancaytar Registered user Pyromancer Last page view: 570 days, 19 hours, 50 minutes and 9 seconds ago. |
I looked that up, and found an article about a conflict regarding whether a monument depicting the ten commandments in a courtroom should be removed. Is that the issue you mean? In that case, though I've read little about it, I must say I agree with it being removed (what happens with it is another matter; since it's a historical document it should probably go to a museum or some such). While it is acceptable to state a nation is founded mainly on belief (though I find it rather disturbing; you can see that the countries with the closest relationship between government and religion are all countries with poor living standards, little human rights and usually terror regimes), saying that a nation is founded on one specific belief is bordering on racism (just another form of it): Especially in such a multicultural country. Again, the countries that base themselves most closely on a certain religion have bad, but accurate reputations for being governed by terror regimes. Move the cursor to the desired position and press [SPACE] when done. Impossible. Suddenly you stand elsewhere. You see an ancient altar of black obsidian. The goblin rockthrower suddenly shouts a prayer to his gods! You are consumed by a roaring column of flame! |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7098 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes and 21 seconds ago. |
MO about the ten commandments thing, i dont know many details about it but if its not hurting anyone, why not just leave it? It seems fine to me. If the people dont want it there, dont look at it, and its suddenely gone. "Again, the countries that base themselves most closely on a certain religion have bad, but accurate reputations for being governed by terror regimes." That is true, but many of those countries have no choice but to be that religion. That is why they are mostly based on it. There are many more countries that are mainly a certain religion that do not support these kinds of things. (: |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 1 hour, 8 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
I agree; of course, if they allow the ten commandments, they had better allow any other religious document, or at least a religious document that has to do with law in some way or other. I believe religions should be taught about in public schools because not to mention religion is not being neutral--it's advocating atheism. Die Gedanken sind Frei [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/27/2003 at 19:27 (GMT -5) by Iridia] |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7098 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes and 21 seconds ago. |
Yep. it wouldnt hurt me if there were any other religious documents in a courthouse. Off the topic but what does, "Die Gedanken sind Frei..." mean? (: |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7171 days, 3 hours, 32 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
Unless you plan to teach every single religion with an equal amount of representation teaching religions in school will be advocating one (or more) of them above others. Athiesm is NOT a religon. Athiesm is a belief, one single belief. Besides, there is no subject in school that advaoctes athiesm. You said it yourself, many scientists are religious people. And if not science, where do you think this 'athiest agenda' would come from? History? Geography? P.E.? Tolerance, I thought, meant giving people the freedom to choose. If you aren't able to present them a plate from which to samlple all religions, athiesism, and the myriad cultural and societal beliefs held around the world; don't offer them the plate. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/27/2003 at 21:54 (GMT -5) by Lamaros] |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7098 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes and 21 seconds ago. |
Then dont teach atheism. It would be on that plate too; beleif or religion. (: [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/27/2003 at 21:59 (GMT -5) by Lavos] |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7171 days, 3 hours, 32 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
No one teaches athiesm! Since when have you had a class in which the instruction has been: "All religion is false, all Gods are false! Hail the religious void!" |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7098 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes and 21 seconds ago. |
Well, ive learned it in science for several years. I learned everything else in history. I guess ill put it this way: "Then dont teach about athiesm. It would be on that plate too; belief or religion." (: |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7171 days, 3 hours, 32 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
You must have had a teacher who went out of his way to say it then, for it does not go hand-in-hand. Unless your mean to imply that teaching the theory of evolution promotes athiesm, in which case I have nothing more to say to you that has not already been said. Alas. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 10 hours, 45 minutes and 44 seconds ago. |
Ugh. This thread is way the heck too long. I am breaking it out into Atheism and Church vs. State (Besides, as the Lobstered said, none of this has anything to do with Relationships) I don't have the time or energy to copy over all the posts this time, so I will try to summarize the few open threads. I'll also start Yet Another Religous Thread. for the threads that discussed actual beliefs and philosphies, rather than the impact of those beliefs and philosophies. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/28/2003 at 15:50 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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C<U> Unregistered user |
I think they should teach eveloution and maybe the major religions;Christanity, Islam, Buddism, and Paganism as extras just a little bit a year. I think God used evelution to create humans. |
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C<U> Unregistered user |
I don't think God cares all too much about the single person, but humanity in general... or he at least at some point cared.. |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 1 hour, 8 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Re: "Die Gedanken sind Frei..." It means "The Thoughts are Free". It's the title of a German song that's used occasionally in protests. The basic idea of it is that no matter what they do to you physically, you'll always be free as long as your mind is free. Yes, it's cliched and emotional, but then, most protests are :) The song has been around for a while; I know it was used by a group of German students who called themselves "The White Rose" and secretly wrote pamphlets against the Third Reich. Die Gedanken sind Frei [Edited 3 times, last edit on 8/31/2003 at 03:15 (GMT -5) by Iridia] |
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