Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / General / A new book series
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 19 hours, 53 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
I loved Watership Down. Animal Farm, for all its depth and meaning, was very depressing (but then, so was Stallinist Russia) I thought Redwall was cute, but it never quite grabbed me. The anthropomorphism (sp?) of the animals didn't quite pull me in. Aside from Watership Down my other animal favorites are Wind in the Willows and The Secret of Nimh (Would The Chronicles of Narnia count?) |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7089 days, 22 hours, 31 minutes and 35 seconds ago. |
What is Watership Down about? I've been looking for a good book that i can sit down and read for a while. Redwall is the first one in the series, and isn't as good as the later sequals (sp?). The dialect of the animals gets better as the books go on. Animal Farm I've always wanted to read, but i've never gotten a chance to. For the past three years at school they've said taht we were going to read it sometime in english. I'm still waiting... (: |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3749 days, 10 hours, 16 minutes and 28 seconds ago. |
Rabbits. Believe it or not, Watership Down is about rabbits... but they're not cute little bunnies, either. I suggest your local library; read a little and see if you like it. Yes. The Redwall sequels are better. :) Die Gedanken sind Frei [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/19/2003 at 18:12 (GMT -5) by Iridia] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 19 hours, 53 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
Animal Farm is an analogy of the evolution of Marx' idea of Communism to Stalin's implementation of it. I found it heavy and depressing. Watership Down is a more a slight fantasy of Rabbits seeking their promised land, then facing the onset of Fascism from their homeland. |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7089 days, 22 hours, 31 minutes and 35 seconds ago. |
I'll have to check that out sometime. Animal Farm Ive heard a lot about, but Watership Down i had never heard of. Sounds good to me! (: |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7162 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
What are you talking about, Everyone's heard of Watership Down! Speaking of good books though; I loved Albert Camus' The Plague (better than The Outsider) The Chronicles of Narnia were moderatly enjoyable, far too heavy-handed with the Christian overtones though. |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7089 days, 22 hours, 31 minutes and 35 seconds ago. |
I might have heard of it. Maybe i just cant remember. (: |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1648 days, 15 hours, 21 minutes and 21 seconds ago. |
Mick Foley's books were surprisingly good. as many times as he's been hit in the head, you'd think his memory or writing style would suffer but, surprisingly, he does a good job of it. |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7162 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
You don't think he just hired someone else to write them for him... ? |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1648 days, 15 hours, 21 minutes and 21 seconds ago. |
no. He wrote it all himself. His second book adresses that. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 19 hours, 53 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
I would consider The Plague historical fiction, rather than Fantasy or SciFi. Did you read it in French or a translation? What did you like about it? I wasn't pulled in by the story -- neither the intrigue nor suspense nor characters, but that may be because I was reading an English translation. I don't consider Narnia heavy handed at all. Yes, it is replete with analogies to Christian beliefs, but a person with no knowledge of Christianity would get just as much out of the books, in terms of story, plot and character development -- along with a wonderful fantasy world in which to put oneself -- The analogies are only seen if you choose to consider them as such. I find Tolkien's TLotR to be much more blatant. I think it is Lewis' Space Trilogy that hits you over the head with Christianity. You are not given the option of reading it simply as SciFi (but it is Bad SciFi, so I don't know why you would want to do so) [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/20/2003 at 17:14 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7162 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
I read The Plague in English. Off the top of my head I can't picture why I liked it so much, this images that are evoked in my head when I think of it are really strong ones though. I found the characters to be honest, considering the prespective of the novel. I guess I enjoyed the language and the imagry (ugh, spelling) of the novel, and the pace of it. |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7089 days, 22 hours, 31 minutes and 35 seconds ago. |
So which one would you say is better? The Plague Watership Down or Animal Farm? Ive really been looking around for some good books. This has helped a lot. Now i just gotta get out and get them. (: |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7162 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
I havn't read Watership Down, I'm afraid, so I can't really say. I think Animal Farm isn't that stunning, so personaly I'd suggest The Plague. But there are many many good books around should one look for them. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 19 hours, 53 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
The Plague (ne La Peste) is a fictional account of and outbreak of the bubonic Plague in some early 20th century city. Perhaps an analogy to fascism, but I didn't see that. Very heavy. Animal Farm is a blatant analogy of the degradation of communism, in which animals get rid of humans and take over a Farm. Very Depressing. Watership Down is a slightly grim fantasy about a quest for a safe homeland by rabbits. These are not the Fairytale animals of Redwall or The Secret of NIMH, but it is still considerably lighter than the previous two.. |
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KillerClawLobster Registered user Ancient Chaos Lobster Last page view: 6453 days, 23 hours, 33 minutes and 48 seconds ago. |
As far as good Fantasy book series go, I also am an avid reader of Terry Brooks (Shannara series as well as the Void/Word series). I also heartily recommend Raymond Feist's Riftwar saga (Magician: Apprentice, Magician: Master, Silverthorn, and Darkness at Sethanon). Animal Farm was a highly interesting story. Poor Snowball... The All-Powerful Ancient Chaos Lobster is here. Boil some water and melt some butter! |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7089 days, 22 hours, 31 minutes and 35 seconds ago. |
Yeah, i think ill go for The Plague. It sounds pretty good to me. (: |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7162 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
I used to like Feist. I have signed copies of pretty much all of his books, and hardbacks of all from serpentwar onwards. But looking at them now, all grown up, I find that the writing isn't that good. The Riftwar saga was good, magician particulary had a certain charm to it. The series with Janny Wurts (Daughter/Servant/Mistress of the Empire) was also quite good, but from there is went down hill. This is very noticable in the serpentwar saga, where every book is worse than the previous one. The books he's written since then have been very bad. (K:tB, K:tA, K:TotG, and the new Conclave of Shadows series) Just glancing at my bookcase, these are a couple of books I would reccomend: Jean-Paul Satre - Nausea John Le Carre - The Spy Who Came In From The Cold Fredrick Forsyth - The Day Of The Jackal Arthur Ransome - Swallows and Amazons (I *loved* this book and some of its sequals as a child) Joseph Heller - Catch-22 (Which I have in loveley hardback, hooray!) Jack Kerouac - On The Road [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/22/2003 at 22:48 (GMT -5) by Lamaros] |
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 Arancaytar Registered user Pyromancer Last page view: 562 days, 4 hours, 58 minutes and 23 seconds ago. |
You usually only notice the Christian allegory in the Narnia series when you actively try to read it critically. I'd read about the book earlier in a Tolkien biography (Tolkien, if you must know, was prone to start ranting as soon as someone even mentioned the books), so I really wanted to know how horrible the books must be if a Catholic Fundamentalist (which, unfortunately IMHO, we must admit Tolkien is to a great extent) complained about it having too much Christian allegory. But then, Tolkien strictly opposed allegory so maybe that's why it bothered him. Searching for the allegory, you find a lot of it. My favorite book is the Silmarillion btw. After that follows David Eddings' Belgariad/Malloreon series, and the Elenium/Tamuli series. I only dislike the style of his two wizard auto-biographies ("Belgarath the Sorcerer" and "Polgara the Sorceress"). You honestly wouldn't want Eddings as a member in a play-by-post RP, he seems to be prone to demigod-characters. I also like Terry Brooks Shannara series, although I think he could have reduced the number of characters gorily (sp?) killed by half. Rowling seems to be torn between writing a children's book and a true fantasy epic. Tolkien had the advantage of there being a clearly defined cut between his Hobbit (children's story) and LotR (epic). In Harry Potter, the material for an epic (prophecy, Dark Lord etc.) is there, and she seems to make an attempt to write in a high fantasy style on occasion, but fails. Move the cursor to the desired position and press [SPACE] when done. Impossible. Suddenly you stand elsewhere. You see an ancient altar of black obsidian. The goblin rockthrower suddenly shouts a prayer to his gods! You are consumed by a roaring column of flame! |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7162 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
Feist is very prone to Demigod characters too. It's very unsatisfying. I think Rowling did the first book well. It was a children's book, it was short, and it was very funny. Her attempts at an epic story are also funny, but only because they are so terrible. I think I enjoyed The Hobbit more than LoTR. Maybe I read LoTR when I was too old to love it. I found it childish in the same way The Hobbit was, but without the charm or modesty that made the other book good. It stretched on far too long, the characters were all one dimensinal, the enemies vauge and unthreatening. Maybe if it was told to me around a camp fire I would have loved it, but as a book it didn't involve me emotionaly at all. (The story was so cliched that when Gandalf 'died' I knew he'd be back, I knew the good guys would win, etc.. etc..) I must admit though, I thought the way the ring was disposed of was really good. Did I mention I think 'The Song Of Ice And Fire' is the best fantasy series I've ever read? |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 19 hours, 53 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
Duke and Lamaros: I have just started Martin's A Game of Thrones. Thanks for recommending it. I will add it to my list. IMHO, it is not gratuitous or explicit at all (at least for the 400 pages I've read so far). Yes, he has sex and violence, but it is not gratuitous . . . Well . . . his one weak part is the Dothraki lifestyle, which is incredibly cliched; I can forgive him that . . . Aside from that, his descriptions add to the story and pull you in. In Banks' and Hamilton's and Brust's universes, it seems that anybody will have sex with anybody without it ever having an impression on them. If I were to make movie comparison's, I would say Martin is Braveheart, with more depth and more intelligent intrigue, while Banks is a James Bond film, with more explicit sex and violence. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/25/2003 at 10:32 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7162 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
I agree, I don't think it's gratuitous myself. Some people find even a hint of sex or violence unnecessary. I'm a bit undecided about the Dothraki; some bits I love, some bits are cliche and dull. I do like the way her story feels so different to everyone else's though, you get that sense of distance. And I'll cede the point that Hamilton's writing style does tend towards male fantasy, which probably stands out to (and annoys) the female readers more. Which brings me to a question of my own: Do the female character viewpoints in ASoIaF strike female readers as somewhat male, or has Martin captured a female 'voice' rather well? Granted all people are different, and what some might find reasonable others dislike.. but as a general question I suppose you know what i'm getting at. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/25/2003 at 21:10 (GMT -5) by Lamaros] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 19 hours, 53 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
Duke and Lamaros: From what I have read of Martin, so far, I think you would very much like Harry Turtledove's "Legion of Videssos" quadrilogy. Lamaros: I think you have come up with a very good definition. In several scenes, the Dothraki lifestyle seems to be a male fantasy. Still, it is infrequent and the rest of the story is so stellar (so far) that I can more than forgive him that. |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7162 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
It's possible for some societies to be like such though, wouldn't you say? In such a world, where most societies are male dominated, maybe some might turn out such? I'll have to look that series up, I'm almost out of things to read. Ulysses, like many really good books, is often not a relaxing read. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 19 hours, 53 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
Re: George R.R. Martin Outside of Male fantasies, I do not think any society had the sexual habits of the Dothraki. I am on book 2, now. It is still stellar work, but the sex scenes (particularly the rape scenes), IMHO, are becoming a bit gratuitous. They are not always fitting into the storyline, and they have no real impact on the plot. |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7162 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
Sexual Habits: I believe you're incorrect, but before I jump the gun perhaps you could describe exactly what sexual habits you think unrealistic. I'll then try to find real world examples of such. (Or at leats try to find some sort of acceptable justification). Not because I want to prove you wrong, but because I'd like to think I'm not part of an unrealistic male-fantasy mindset. The books never struck me as unrealistic to a notable extent (though of course there are always points). [Edited 2 times, last edit on 9/2/2003 at 22:21 (GMT -5) by Lamaros] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 19 hours, 53 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
Heh, it is fantasy. The zombies and Dragons seem rather unrealistic, IMHO! ;-P (just kidding, I know what you mean) For the Dothraki, the orgy at the Khaal's wedding banquet comes to mind (along with the duels to the death over the choice women) In the seven kingdoms, there have been numerous rapes with no apparent repercussion, even for the victims -- No social stigma, no evidence of lasting trauma, none of the main characters seem to bat an eye. This is just my own impression. The strengths more than make up for such minor weaknesses. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 9/3/2003 at 12:45 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 19 hours, 53 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
BTW, Duke and Lamaros (and anybody who likes George R. R. Martin's "Song of Ice and Fire") in addition to Harry Turtledove's "Videssos Cycle" you might also like the books by Guy Gavriel Kay. One is Tigana, another is The Lions of Al-Rassan. He also has a high fantasy trilogy called "The Fionavar Tapestry." |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 19 hours, 53 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
Tier II Fantasy: I was updating the list I posted earlier in the thread, and felt Terry Brooks at least deserved a nod. I might downgrade the last two books of Stephen King's "Dark Tower" series for being so self-absorbed. Hmmm, I guess that the second, third and fifth books in that series are good enough to keep the entire series in Tier I. Terry Brooks - The Sword of Shannarra (Only the first book) * Okay, fine. Yes, it is a Plagiarized, dumbed down version of "The Lord of the Rings" but I still enjoyed it Terry Pratchet - Discworld Series * They are silly, but enjoyable, and there are a few gems in there. Not enough to move the entire Series to Tier I, but enough to keep it in Tier II. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 6/30/2005 at 12:08 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 19 hours, 53 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
I am going to add Patrick Rothfuss' Kingkiller series and Tad Williams Shadowmarch series to my recommended Fantasy list. I am adding Hamilton's Fallen Dragon to my SciFi list [Edited 1 time, last edit on 9/19/2008 at 12:08 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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