Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / General / What is God
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
I am breaking this out of Atheism and Church vs. State since that thread is getting entirely too unwieldy, and this seems like a good topic to spin off. There was also a thread starting on morality, which I will pull over. Please try to keep your posts to 20 lines or less. [Edited 2 times, last edit on 9/18/2003 at 18:23 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
In Atheism and Church vs. State, Lamaros wrote: I'd ask someone to post proof that God does exist if they had it, but I'm sure I've gone through most of the major arguments already. Better thing to do though: Would those you you that believe in God care to define 'it' for me? |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
Lamaros: I don't think there is one definition -- Kind of like asking what is the definition of a "Dad" -- but I can tell you what some of my beliefs are about God. I think one definition of God is: Something that created the Universe (Time, Space, Physics, Logic, Cause and Effect, etc) but is not bounded by any of the aspects/laws of the Universe. I believe It is sentient and aware. I believe It is omniscient and omnipotent. I believe It defines abstract morality, the same way It defines concrete reality. I believe it cares for us and Loves us. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
Interestingly, I think we explored the idea of Time and Space in Perceptions of Time/Space |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
In Atheism and Church vs. State, DaN wrote: <snip> also, there was this article in the Guardian today comparing religion to class A drugs ("more e vicar?"). "Religion - Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism etc, etc - is by definition irrational and, more than that, it is an irrationality that lays claim to the complete truth. How dangerous is that?" full story [Edited 2 times, last edit on 9/18/2003 at 18:27 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
In Atheism and Church vs. State, Caladriel wrote: DaN: I would say that the danger is not from claiming an absolute truth/morality exists, but, rather, I would say the danger is from claiming to know, or claiming to be fully aware of, this absolute truth/morality. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
In Atheism and Church vs. State, Taz wrote: <snip> I dont believe in God as the Bible describes it. I think that it's a bit too exaggerated and extreme. But I still believe that there is something out there that created all of us. I think that we'd be too presumptuous to think that 'It' created the whole universe and then focused 'Its' attention only on us humans. It might probably not even be a rational/thinking being. About morality: I think that it's an interesting idea. I did the IB TOK, which is sort of like a philosophy class, and I have this article called "Give War a Chance". It explains how war helps us control population, preventing famine, overpopulation, etc. There's this other articles that talks about morality and how us humans insist on trying to save every single life we can, even if it means that the person you saved will suffer while they live. So, what is morality? How do we know what is the right thing to do? And what if it's 'right' for the whole world, but 'wrong'/unfair for one person? Thoughts are a bit jumbled now, too sleepy to bother to think sentences/arguments through properly :p And I also think that this is slightly OT from Church :D |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
In Atheism and Church vs. State, Lavos wrote: ...Christ died for "our" sins. Thus someone had to finger him - whether it was the Jews or the Romans - and whoever did should then surely be congratulated by Christians for arranging the set-piece that gave birth to their religion. Except that God must have arranged his son's death because He arranges everything. Or does He? i think God sets up things (as i said earlier) in a way that it all works together, because of the kind of person you are. Read that part. it hardly makes sense if you look closely. <snip> |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
In Atheism and Church vs. State, Caladriel wrote: Lavos: Personally, I do not think God arranges everything like a master puppeteer. I think God works with what we give It, just as we work with what It gives us. ie. God did not make the people crucify Jesus. That was a choice that they made. Had they chosen not to crucify him, then I think It would have brought about Its purposes some other way. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
In Atheism and Church vs. State, Lavos wrote: errr... when did i say 'puppeteer?' thats not what i was saying. we are made a way. and in that way, things will happen. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4699 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
Lavos: I was responding to your idea of whether or not God arranges everything. That is what I meant by being a puppeteer. ie. A master puppeteer arranges everything on his/her stage. I guess the question is: Does God have a plan, and is everything that happens meant to happen? I personally do not think so. J.R.R. Tolkien, in The Silmarillion, brought up an idea that resonates better with me. I think that God simply has a goal (or goals). It doesn't need a step by step plan to get there. We go around with our free will, but regardless of whether or not we do what God wants us to do, everything that we do is is woven into an existing scheme to bring about that (those) goal(s) |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7171 days, 56 minutes and 35 seconds ago. |
I have no specific viewpoint as I'm not sure in my views at this stage, but some notions are interesting to entertain: I'm something of a Determinist, though more on a objective level than an emotive one. I think calling myself a 'fatalist' would be a misnomer. Anyway. I think the world is simply following a path defined by the nature of the universe. I don't think that it's possible for anything in this universe to change that path, which is to say I don't think anything stands above the universe that relates to it in any way (anymore). Under such a view God's existance is largely irrelevent. If you can't see God or reach God in any way, and God cannot form a relationship with you in any way that for all intents and purposes God might not exist. Actually this raises something I just thought about, under such a system it would be impossible for any person's concept of God to be correct, for under such a system God, if God existed, would be completely removed from the universe. True knowledge of God would form a link between the two, and God would be drawn in. It must be impossible to know God unless you acknowledge that God would have a real influence upon the world (through those that know God truly). Anyway. :) [Edited 1 time, last edit on 9/18/2003 at 20:14 (GMT -5) by Lamaros] |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7098 days, 10 hours, 46 minutes and 57 seconds ago. |
Caladriel: when you put it that way, i guess i do agree with you. That makes sense. I guess what i was saying was that, he made us to reach (or want to, or capable of) those goals. I have no specific definition though. (: |