Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / General / Balance...
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 3 days, 10 hours, 35 minutes and 43 seconds ago. |
Reading the Dark vs Light thread got me thinking. Do you guys believe that anyone (in real life that is) can be considered "True Newtral"? I mean sure, you can be "newtral" in the sence that you might not care much about doing good and helping people while at the same time never going out of your way to hurt people. But that's basicaly just beeng indifferent. However to be worthy of the "True Newtral" alignment you have to actualy actively seek balance in all things. It would for example mean that if by some miracle the "forces of good" has become dominant you would have to fight against them in order to achieve balance between good and evil. The overall goal is not to help individuals, but to make sure there is an equal amount of good and evil in the world... I mean it makes good fantasy material. Spawn for example (the comic "hero") basicaly fight to maintain balance. He mostly fight the forces of Hell seeng as they tend to be the ones actively trying to gain more influence, but he doesn't fight for the Heavens. If an angel turns up trying to winn over souls by performing miracles he will fight them too. Because in Spawn's universe it would trigger Harmageddon (end of the world) if either side gain to much influence on Earth. What do you think, is it humanly possible to be "True Newtral" in the real world? Merely beeng good or evil is easy by comparison. Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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MaChO Registered user Last page view: 8313 days, 11 hours, 15 minutes and 37 seconds ago. |
i've been thinking that too... but i have thought that being true neutral is something like being friend of everyone.. because if you arent friend of everyone You dont have balance. and if you dont have balance how can you fight for balance ? ofcourse its very hard to be friend of everyone...but atleast friend of everyone close to you like all of you classmates for example. i mean if there is two guys who dont like each other very much but you are both of them friend. what to do? i think you should try to make them friends... [Edited at 03:48, Tuesday, July 10, 2001 by MaChO] |
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Stas Registered user The Dark Lord Melkor Last page view: 7654 days, 2 hours, 57 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
ääh... kaikki nuo vaan surkeita Tolkien-jäljitelmiä... kukaan vaan ei pysty enää saamaan samaa kuin hän aikaansai, ei kukaan.. kaikki ne fantasiakirjailijat on vain kaiku Tolkienista... ja hän vain kaiku siitä mitä muinoin oli, ja joka on iäksi menetetty... "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger" Lord of The Rings "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will anger the cat lord" |
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Ade Registered user Being perverse is bad Last page view: 7710 days, 2 hours, 16 minutes and 9 seconds ago. |
Varför började du tala om Tolkien nu? Man kan tala vad som helst här, jag vet, men jag tror att Tolkien har ingen att göra med det talet här... Fuck, jag talar huonoa Swedish. You make my life and times A book of bluesy saturdays |
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Stas Registered user The Dark Lord Melkor Last page view: 7654 days, 2 hours, 57 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
aaargh!Ade, et VOI tehdä tätä! olet pettänyt meidät kaikki (puhumalla mustaa mustempaa kieltä), ja toivomme on mennyttä... *maailman ylle laskeutuu tumma varjo* "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger" Lord of The Rings "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will anger the cat lord" |
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Ade Registered user Being perverse is bad Last page view: 7710 days, 2 hours, 16 minutes and 9 seconds ago. |
Ayur varsa-shatam nram parimitam ratrau tad-ardham gatam Tasyardhasya parasya cardham aparam balatva-vrddhatvayoh Shesam vyadhi-viyoga-duhkha-sahitam sevadibhir niyate, Jive vari-taranga-budbuda-same saukhyam kutah praninam? Aina ei voi voittaa. You make my life and times A book of bluesy saturdays |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 3 days, 10 hours, 35 minutes and 43 seconds ago. |
Um... Could we get back to speaking English pleace... All I could make out of the previous messages was that Stas said someting about Tolkien, Ade asked what that had to do with this thread in (poor) Swedish, and then everyone started talking Finnish again. I feel left out, Waaah! Others out there probably don't even understand Swedish... If you want to keep a Finish, or Swedish or Spanish or Japanese or whatever thread going that's fine, but keep it to a minumum in other threads. Greit gutter? Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 3 days, 10 hours, 35 minutes and 43 seconds ago. |
MaChO: Well to be True Newtral (the way the AD&D manual describe it) you would have to oppose whoever was the dominating force at the time. That would befenently make it har to be friends with everyone, strikes me as a lonely aligment to me... Most suited to secret society types... Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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MaChO Registered user Last page view: 8313 days, 11 hours, 15 minutes and 37 seconds ago. |
yes i know.. it Is hard to be or even try to be friend of everyone. i know that because that example happend in real life. but not to me. my friend tried to be friend of everyone but it didnt work very well. i think being true neutral is very hard. i mean in every kind of situation. atleast for humans its too hard sometimes... [Edited at 01:56, Wednesday, July 11, 2001 by MaChO] |
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Ade Registered user Being perverse is bad Last page view: 7710 days, 2 hours, 16 minutes and 9 seconds ago. |
Definition for True Neutrality? Active Nihilism. Oh, and btw, POOR Swedish? God dammit, you have no idea how much time I spent writing that message!! and the second I wrote was in sanskrit ;) [Edited at 10:22, Wednesday, July 11, 2001 by Ade] You make my life and times A book of bluesy saturdays |
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Palagran Registered user Furry Hybrid Last page view: 6364 days, 8 hours, 35 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Whether someone is a "true" neutral or just indifferent, it is represented by the same letters in ADOM. Perhaps some Neutrals are just more active than others. Balance may not be what is done with the world or other people, but with what the person believes and how s/he acts. A person can steal things, do drugs, help the poor, and feed the homeless and have pretty much the same effect without having to fight any particular alignment. Just a thought. I'm open to any suggestion on the issue. |
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Stas Registered user The Dark Lord Melkor Last page view: 7654 days, 2 hours, 57 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
swedish is from the deepest pit of arse "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger" Lord of The Rings "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will anger the cat lord" |
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Locke Registered user Treasure hunter Last page view: 7901 days, 14 hours, 18 minutes and 28 seconds ago. |
A bit moody today aren't we Stas? hehe Locke Cole |
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Stas Registered user The Dark Lord Melkor Last page view: 7654 days, 2 hours, 57 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
I'm sorry, Locke, but that's what "making students study things they don't want" does... and don't take that personally... "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger" Lord of The Rings "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will anger the cat lord" |
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Locke Registered user Treasure hunter Last page view: 7901 days, 14 hours, 18 minutes and 28 seconds ago. |
Oh it's quite alright. I diden't take it personally at all. :) Locke Cole |
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Ade Registered user Being perverse is bad Last page view: 7710 days, 2 hours, 16 minutes and 9 seconds ago. |
Nah, I don't mind studying Swedish, it has come quite handy sometimes. I often visit forums where people sometimes talk Swedish, and although I may suck at writing/speaking it, I still understand it pretty well, thanks to "making students study things they don't want" You make my life and times A book of bluesy saturdays |
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Akron Unregistered user |
I don't know if any great philosopher has written anything about these "alignments". So because I don't know any true life examples of this "Balance"-thing I just take example directly from ADOM. If I have understood things correctly Balance or True Neutrality means that one must have his chaotic and lawful acts in balance (this basically means that there are no neutral acts). If we think about today's world then chaotic acts weigh more than lawful acts. What if you robbed a bank and you'd give all the money to some random beggars? Would your deeds be in balance? Hell no! You'd be sent to prison despite the good deed you just did. And would that shorten your sentence? I think in most cases not. So IMHO there are no true neutral (maybe not neutral at all). In real life you're always considered as good or bad. I guess we all have to accept that. If someone disagrees completely with me then that person is free to speak out his opinion. But that's enough crap this time. |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 3 days, 10 hours, 35 minutes and 43 seconds ago. |
Well stealing from the rich and giving to the poor could defenently be something a "true newtral" person might do to achieve balance. The problem is that the rich people will view him as an evil person and the poor people will view him as a good person... One might argue that as long as your intent is to promote balance the "public opinion" is irrelevant, but then again by that logic a mentaly ill person who run around murdering people because he thinks they are evil deamons would have to be labeled as good (because as twisted as he is he indend to do good). Ugh... this gives me a headace, I suppose we can just conclude that trying to impose things like alignment on RL is a hopelsess endeavour, and true newtral is just someting to place conveniently in the middle of good and evil in games. Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Stas Registered user The Dark Lord Melkor Last page view: 7654 days, 2 hours, 57 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
I mean, why the hell they study *swedish* in *Finland*?? according to that logic, they should study *finnish* in *Sweden*!! and so, why don't they? because finnish politics suck (and are from the deepest pit of arse) [Edited at 06:14, Wednesday, July 18, 2001 by Stas] "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger" Lord of The Rings "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will anger the cat lord" |
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Locke Registered user Treasure hunter Last page view: 7901 days, 14 hours, 18 minutes and 28 seconds ago. |
The reason why we here in Sweden doesn't study finnish is because we're too dumb to learn it. hehe Nah I don't know. But on a slighty related note: The finnish schools are WAY harder compared to swedish schools. And the really cool thing is that the finnish students have better grades compared to swedish students... Ahhh!!! The finnish are smarter than the swedish!! *cries like a baby* hehe Just kidding. And back to the balance thing: I agree with Jan Erik that true neutral is just something convenient to place between good and evil on the alignment-scale, in games as well as IRL. Anyone ever tried to be true neutral in an argument for example? :) Locke Cole |
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Stas Registered user The Dark Lord Melkor Last page view: 7654 days, 2 hours, 57 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
Locke>I've been in one swedish school... the students (14-15 years old) put that tobacco thingie in their mouth (as the teachers), and nobody sutdied anything... sad... "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger" Lord of The Rings "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will anger the cat lord" |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 3 days, 10 hours, 35 minutes and 43 seconds ago. |
Heh, that sounds about right for most mid-level schools I have seen in Norway too... Things get slightly better higher up in the system, though that filthy chewing-tobacho stuff (who's correct Englich name escape me at the moment) seems to have gotten a solid fothold among the young people... It's slightly less offensive to the air (compared to sigarettes, though it does stink if you ask me), though trying to hold a conversation with someone who has a huge chunk of tobacho sticking out from under his upper lip is not exactly appealing either... Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Stas Registered user The Dark Lord Melkor Last page view: 7654 days, 2 hours, 57 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
lol... well, I can laugh at them, when they die of some canser... *laughing maniacally*... "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger" Lord of The Rings "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will anger the cat lord" |
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Ade Registered user Being perverse is bad Last page view: 7710 days, 2 hours, 16 minutes and 9 seconds ago. |
By that tobacco-thingie, do you mean nuuska? Snuff it is in English, I think. You make my life and times A book of bluesy saturdays |
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Palagran Registered user Furry Hybrid Last page view: 6364 days, 8 hours, 35 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Oh, nobody wants to ask me? ^_^ We call it "snuff" or "chewing tobacco" over here. No youths use it as far as I know. It's pretty much only used by some old folks. I know only one person that actually used to use it. It's really gross. |
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NaZgul Registered user Last page view: 7735 days, 9 hours, 17 minutes and 37 seconds ago. |
>Stas: the same question is: why do we study Russian in our schools in Ukraine? AFAIK, they don't study Ukrainian in Russia. |
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Stas Registered user The Dark Lord Melkor Last page view: 7654 days, 2 hours, 57 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
because same reason as in Finland:politics are stupid (and they are afraid to spoil their "relationships" with Russia, ukraine politics I mean)... But I must admit, Russian language is sooooooo much richer than English, Swedish or Finnish (or German)... "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger" Lord of The Rings "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will anger the cat lord" |
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Ade Registered user Being perverse is bad Last page view: 7710 days, 2 hours, 16 minutes and 9 seconds ago. |
It's hard to say for me since I haven't read Russian, but when compared to some of the languages I know, like English, Swedish, Latin, etc.. I'll have to say that I still haven't found anything as diverse, rich and poetic as Finnish. Finnish is also very metaphoric, and has the best curse-words of all languages. It can be harsh and barbaric while at the same time being incredibly beautiful and poetic. Dammit, if what you say about Russian is true, I'll perhaps have to study it for a bit (to prove you wrong, perhaps :) ). If it's like other indo-european languages, I doubt you, although the indo-european languages I know all belong to the 'kentum'-group, and Russian belongs to the 'satem'-group, so perhaps there might be something then... Okay, I hope I didn't make you too confused :) And the reasons for both, us studying Swedish and NaZgul studying Russian are sad: History. Finland, for example was colonized by the Swedes for ~500-600 years, and during that time our culture was pretty badly raped. Many Swedes moved to live here and some 7% of Finland's inhabitants still talk Swedish. But it might be easier for an Ukrainian to learn Russian since they're both slavic languages. I don't know how closely they're related, but it's still damn much closer than Finnish and Swedish are from each other. Finnish isn't even indo-european, damnit. You make my life and times A book of bluesy saturdays |
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Stas Registered user The Dark Lord Melkor Last page view: 7654 days, 2 hours, 57 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
Ade>Russian language has *much* more curse-words (dirty words) than Finnish or English!!! And they are very original :))) "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger" Lord of The Rings "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will anger the cat lord" |
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Dezertir Unregistered user |
And, to be honest, the origin of most of these *dirty* words are not Aryan (Indo-european) but Mongol. |
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