Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / ADOM / Baa for new spells
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Nchurmdaz Registered user Goblin flash mobber Last page view: 5996 days, 8 hours, 52 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
This might sound somewhat unfair towards Creator, but IMO ADOM => Jade should have more spells. I don't know if this question have ever been discussed here - all 24 pages of topics are too long to read :) What I'm especially concerned about are enchantments aimed primarily at PC. We currently have 5 of them: Bless,Farsight, Invisibility, Slow Monster :), Strength of Atlas (selectet from GB). This list IMO simply lacks: 1) Fortifying spell(s) aimed at attribute increase(might be ONE and working at random), speed increase, magic armors for DV/PV, mayhap a spell granting random lvl 1 resistance. In order to prevent nasty wizards from overpowering there might be an enchantment slot system which is Ma or Wi dependent. 2) Enchantments aimed at temporal improvement of wielded weapons - slight amounts of fire/acid/lighting/poison damage. Might also be one spell giving random effects. We have poisoning alredy, aren't we? And modifyers giving weapons permanent + of elemental damage. 3) From Diablo II. Don't kick me. Offensive auras. As spells, of course. Tiny amounts of elemental damage each turn within ball spells radius (Wi dependent). No wall penetration. Just heat/frost/electricity/acidic fluids radiating from PC. Here I would add a variant of this - which doesn't necessarily excude the preceeding - 'damaging armors' enchantment like slight + to DV/PV + elemental damage to atacking *and* hitting monster. If this would disballance ADOM, my question is as follows: would you like to see thingies like this in Jade, and if it's an appropriate proposal at adom.de? Ubi patria ibi bene! |
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einherjar Registered user Last page view: 6841 days, 14 hours, 6 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
1. I don't think we're getting shafted in the stat advancement department. I think herbs, corpses, and Garth are enough to boost our stats in the beginning, and PoGA aren't too uncommon in the mid- to late-game period, not to mention artifacts and rare items that often give a considerable stat boost. 2. Even if you get a temporary elemental effect on a sword, you'd still have to make contact with your enemy to deal any damage, and having a slight elemental effect probably isn't worth the trouble of casting the spell; in order to be worth it, the spell would have to be able to inflict an extra 25% or more of the damage the weapon would normally deal, and that seems to be a bit too powerful. 3. Yeah, it's not like sorcerers are already too powerful, right? Oh, wait. May thy wisdom be omnipresent. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/6/2005 at 16:23 (GMT -5) by einherjar] |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 5 days, 9 hours, 8 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
Sounds like some interesting ideas. I've RFE'd a bunch of new spells before. The response was basicaly that the ADOM engine couldn't handle it without major hack work and that it he was not willing to do the major re-writes required to add new spell effects. I suppose you could RFE such things, and spesify that realisticaly speaking it would be best to consider it for Jade rather than ADOM, although chances are Thommas won't be reading ADOM RFE's when working on Jade... Jade will probably get it's own "bug and RFE" database once it is actualy launched. As for spells I'd like to see I think think an "animate statue" spell would be cool. Basicaly you would turn a petrified monster into a slave, kinda like a golem. They would be simmilar to the "live" monster, except lower DV higher PV, less speed and higher attack (and no special abilities or healing). Possebly put some limit on how many you could controll at any one time for balancing reasons. Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Nchurmdaz Registered user Goblin flash mobber Last page view: 5996 days, 8 hours, 52 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
Einherjar, 1. You speak about stat increase, not boosting. We do have potions of *boost* stat, but we don't have spells. The main idea is temporal effect for PP, from the air, that is. Too *boost* your stat you have to find a potion, ensure if it's not cursed, and drink it. E.g. use up in one action. Spell is a different thing. 2. You’re contradicting yourself. Firs you say it must boost damage by +25%, then you say that'd be too powerful. Make up your mind. I thought about this thing as a way of disposing things who are 'badly hurt' by one of the elements. Golems in Darkforge would be surprised at even 3-7 lighting damage, different fire lizards, beetles, elementals, grues - at respective ice addition. Their weaknesses would boost the effect to proportions you mentioned, keeping it from overpower - for it would be effective only against monsters with weak spots. Things like Titans, Eternium Golems and karmic Dragons are unaffected, so don't worry about the balance. 3. All classes can learn spells. It's like calling paladin a 'sorcerer'. Farmer would cast it too, after becoming literate and getting Le + Literacy to certain number. TB speaks of certain equality in ADOM. We even have a topic were one player boasted with a farmer who had all stats at 99, and memorized wish (mayhap through potions of wonder). As for coding difficulty - my proposals don't seem to be involving behavior scripts. Stat boosting is already contained in the engine. Elemental damage - too, it just have to be made temporal, like available poison effect. Auras - heh - must take something like automatic recast of certain weakened element ball. I'm bad at programming anyway, so my thought on this account are to be buried. I think I'd add a poll here. Answering 'yes' would imply that you'd like to share your thoughts on this account in this topic. Ubi patria ibi bene!
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einherjar Registered user Last page view: 6841 days, 14 hours, 6 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
1. You didn't specify that you meant boosting stats to begin with. Even in this case a spell like this is not unlike having a permanent boost to a stat or stat; if it would be anything like SoA, you'd just cast it again when you received the message that the spell was wearing off or noticed a drastic change in your stats. 2. You misread my comment about the weapon spell. If you look at that comment a little more closely, you'll see that I said such a spell would have to be able to add an additional 25% damage to the damage normally dealt by the weapon, and in doing so, the weapon would be way too powerful. It is clearly not a contradiction. 3. Having some kind of defensive aura would make things a bit too easy. It's not like ADoM can't be won in its current form. There aren't any monsters that have the ability to radiate such an aura now anyway; if so, you'd think chaotic monsters would definitely have the ability to corrupt the PC by its mere presence, and people would have to rethink their strategies for Andy and other chaotic monsters, lest they be WMoPC'd. May thy wisdom be omnipresent. |
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Sargoth Registered user Bard Last page view: 4964 days, 4 hours, 37 minutes and 50 seconds ago. |
"Having some kind of defensive aura would make things a bit too easy. It's not like ADoM can't be won in its current form. There aren't any monsters that have the ability to radiate such an aura now anyway..." Actually, there is. Remember those blue eyes? http://tankefel.blogspot.com/ So far you have only killed one wild cat. |
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einherjar Registered user Last page view: 6841 days, 14 hours, 6 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
They are different. Their ability to drain PP is not a passive ability because you aren't always affected by it; you only lose PP when they decide to take it from you, or else just being near them would cause a constant PP decay. May thy wisdom be omnipresent. |
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Nchurmdaz Registered user Goblin flash mobber Last page view: 5996 days, 8 hours, 52 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
1. Permanent boost is an increase already. Yes, I didn't specify that because of the obvious reasons - bookcasted spell *increasing* attributes is cheating. I didn't even bother myself mentioning that. And, we already have a "Strenght of Atlas", which is succesfully being cast, recast, re-recast, etc. As well as Farsight. All usefull spells are recast as soon as they wear off, and need of them persists. 2. *You* specify the number - 25% and then say 'that'd be too powerful'. Kick me if that's not a contradiction. Why didn't you say "18%" insted? Or 15%? Would 15% be still too powerful? In addition - I specified that I personally see that not as % increase, but a *fixed* number - like in existing weapon suffixes. 3. Quote: "if so, you'd think chaotic monsters would definitely have the ability to corrupt the PC by its mere presence, and people would have to rethink their strategies for Andy and other chaotic monsters, lest they be WMoPC'd." Did I say a word about that? We already have a 'chaotic aura' all around the dungeons - Background Corruption! You're twisting my words. If you wish for elemental auras from monsters - please, give them to Chaos Wizards, certain Dragons etc. Lesser chaos beings would barely have enough "Wi" to radiate chaotic auras outside themselves. Giving such auras to unique monsters, and making it not too powerful would add an extra kick without spoiling the balance. The main idea is being able to inflict at least some damage without spending a turn for that. and again - these are spells, not permanent abilities. They should be recast to have effect. Recasting consumes PP and number of castings. However, i repeat, player is already under constant background corruption. What I was speaking about are elemental auras. Ubi patria ibi bene! |
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einherjar Registered user Last page view: 6841 days, 14 hours, 6 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
1. You misread what I had written before. I had three people read what I wrote, and they understood exactly what I was trying to say. 2. <Sharp kick> 3. You misunderstand things quite often, don't you? May thy wisdom be omnipresent. |
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 Armada Registered user Last page view: 1234 days, 6 hours, 21 minutes and 48 seconds ago. |
Enchantments might be doable. Spend a certain amount of PP a turn (Constant drain) to keep the effect active on yourself. Regeneration, protection from the elements (One element a piece), Few extra points of Pv, simple things like that. I also say that Elemental damages on weapons (Frozen scimitars for example) should pierce PV. Fire beetles shouldnt be able to stop the elemental damage they are weak against simply because the 1-6 extra damage can't get through their protection. |
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Mellis Unregistered user |
"in order to be worth it, the spell would have to be able to inflict an extra 25% or more of the damage the weapon would normally deal, and that seems to be a bit too powerful." Actually, Nchurmdaz is correct that the statement is not logical, but it isn't a contradiction per se. Since you suggest an arbitrary 25%, you are basing the argument in question on what you think the spell would have to add in order to be "worth it". Therfore, you leave it up to the subjection of the reader to decide whether the entire argument is true or false, since the pivot that you base the argument on is an opinion -- I could say that 25% is underpowered and say that 30% would make it "worth it". I hope you understand what I am trying to say. |
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einherjar Registered user Last page view: 6841 days, 14 hours, 6 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
10=12.5 15=18.75 20=25 25=31.25 30=37.5 10=13 15=19.5 20=26 25=32.5 30=39 So what does it take to deal 10 damage with a weapon? How much HP do monsters normally have? Is 2.5-3 extra damage worth it? I think not. You'd have to deal a lot of damage for the spell to be worth anything, and only then when you find a monster weak against the element you're using. It's not like such monsters are impossible without such a spell anyway. May thy wisdom be omnipresent. |
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Unregistered user |
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what your post is saying. What do the numbers mean? |
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Mellis Unregistered user |
Previous post is by me :) |
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Nchurmdaz Registered user Goblin flash mobber Last page view: 5996 days, 8 hours, 52 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
einherjar, I think you underestimate +10 dmg. It's not for a single hit! It's for several dozens of turns. Even few hundreds if to make a proper formula for duration. Why one would wear a ring of damage/slaying, pick useless 'affinity' talents just for another few points of damage? You are definitely great at adding +25% and +30% to different numbers. I knee before you. Just pay attention to the fact that I didn't say that MY idea was a % addition. I repeat, I see this as a Wi, Ma, lvl, power dependent number - like in all other damaging spells. In addition to your words - all monsters are possible without ANY spells. So what? Quit spellcasting? Ubi patria ibi bene! |
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einherjar Registered user Last page view: 6841 days, 14 hours, 6 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
So then explain exactly what it is you are trying to propose as clear as possible. You did not make yourself very clear before. As for new spells in general, what's the point? When you fight a monster, you're either going to kill it, run away, or die; it's not as if ADoM is impossible, is it? If you're clamoring for new spells because you have yet to win a game, then you should reconsider your general strategy for trying to win the game and try to improve your tactics. A few more spells isn't going to win you the game. May thy wisdom be omnipresent. |
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Nchurmdaz Registered user Goblin flash mobber Last page view: 5996 days, 8 hours, 52 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
Did I say I never won, and so I need more spells? NO. Mockery again. Have you seen at least something else except ADOM? There are games with a far well developed spell systems, covering far more aspects of alterations possible via magic. My proposals were mostly inspired fy BG => NWN series Ubi patria ibi bene! |
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einherjar Registered user Last page view: 6841 days, 14 hours, 6 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
I believe it was Biskup himself who said that Nethack has everything but the kitchen sink. Shall ADoM descend down that road? And should ADoM really try to emulate other games? The spells are fine as they are now; there's no hurdle that a good spellcaster cannot overcome without the use of some special spell. May thy wisdom be omnipresent. |
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Nchurmdaz Registered user Goblin flash mobber Last page view: 5996 days, 8 hours, 52 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
Read my first post. It's first sentence. Read carefully. And then look at the poll's question. Again - carefully. Ubi patria ibi bene! [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/10/2005 at 14:10 (GMT -5) by Nchurmdaz] |
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einherjar Registered user Last page view: 6841 days, 14 hours, 6 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
"ADOM => Jade should have more spells." I believe you are referring to this line. JADE has not yet been released, so there is no point in spamming the ADOM forum with suggestions for a game that doesn't even exist. I had hoped you just made a mistake here because it would be very stupid to try and do Biskup's work for him without his permission. He hasn't even released the Beta yet, give him a chance! May thy wisdom be omnipresent. |
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Nchurmdaz Registered user Goblin flash mobber Last page view: 5996 days, 8 hours, 52 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
Are Jade+ADOM closed for suggestions, wise one? You stated you opininon. You could have stated it in ONE post. It has nothing to do with mechanics of my suggestions. All you've said here before is formulated in ONE simple statement, without need for ALL the others: "IMO, ADOM/and/or/Jade needs no suggestions for new spells"_DoT_ Do you have anything to add? Ubi patria ibi bene! |
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tongHoAnh Registered user adoomed Last page view: 6635 days, 8 hours, 59 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
ADOM is closed for development, as from what I assumed from TB. JADE's documentation has nothing about spells... yet. My RL dumpyard: http://www.geocities.com/ceruleannebula/index.html |
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allwhoplay Unregistered user |
hate to fill you in Jan, but it seems ANY rewrites <even a web post> is beyond the capabilities of tb... any RFE at this point is going to be dicovered by archeologists. this is almost as bad as the old Star Fleet Battles game... FINISH THE DAMN game already! |
