Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / Spoilers / What am I doing wrong?
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Covenant Registered user The Unbeliever Last page view: 5461 days, 9 hours, 25 minutes and 40 seconds ago. |
Hi, newbie (to the forums, at least) here, heavily spoiled though. I've been playing ADOM a while now as a Candle-born human Monk, and I've yet to make it past the Ancient Chaos Wyrm (except for once, when I did, but got two corruptions, and was so new that I thought this was an unacceptable victory and suicided :/). My last one seemed the most promising Monk ever. I'd done all the beginner quests, Dwarven Graveyard, Darkforge (draining all the pools in hope of getting a wish to save Khelly), Tomb of the High Kings, etc. Eventually, at about level 20, having still not found a way of getting an AoLS to get further into the CoC, I decide to take on the ToEF. At this time, I had nice gear like 7LBs, a blessed ring of ice, two fireblankets, a wand of death, robe of invisibility, elven chainmail, some nice spells, and the thin and nimble and scales corruptions. All in all meaning I had about 33PV, 240hp, and my Unarmed Attack was at level 12. Stats were around 20's for most. This was stronger than I'd ever been, so I thought the Wyrm was toast. So I get up to the top level, dig my way in, only for my robe of invisibility to burn. Then I have to fight a whole host of Fire Elementals and demons and such, using up most of my Spenseweed in the process. I eventually clear a path to the ACW, and think 'Hah, you're screwed now mate', and fire off my WoDeath at him. And he shrugs it off! 3 times! Grrr. Anyway, I got confused, and hit with a lot of corrupting attacks, had to use most of my potions of extra healing to survive, but I manage to run back to the corridor, where I decide I'll use my wands of cold and poison on the Wyrm to soften him up, then melee him. So I try this, every wand I have gets him to 'Slightly Wounded', then after a couple of melee attacks, a critical hit from him takes me from 200hp to 1 (Yay Lucky and Fate Smiles), and his second attack kills me. So what's going wrong? All the advice I read about the Wyrm includes stuff like 'Dragon Slaying Ammo'. As a Monk, though, I'm not really picking up too many weapons or ammo besides Drakish Scurgari (It's depressing when I do. Last game, I had an eternium halberd of mayhem and an eternium2HS I couldn't use). Should I be going to the Rift before taking on the ToEF? The ability to cast some ice spells would be nice, and I tend not to find many books in a normal game. I'd have checked the Water Dragon's stash for some wish granting gear, but no water-breathing equipment was generated. I'm making a new character now (Another human Candle-born Monk... It's killing my wrists re-rolling for that Starsign :P But it's like a personal challenge to win with this character-type now). Anyone got any advice on how to build up a character specifically to take out the Wyrm? Knowledge is chimera, for beyond it ever lies other knowledge, and the incompleteness of what is known renders the knowing false. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4239 days, 22 hours, 20 minutes and 48 seconds ago. |
Just because he's a monk doesn't mean you have to stick to unarmed fighting. They're still perfectly good for melee weapons and missile combat - it's just that they're extra good with unarmed. But never rely on it - you will get killed (as you've found out). Missiles are one of the best ways to kill powerful creatures in the game, especially when it comes to powerful demons and undead (you do *not* want to melee them). If you find a good melee weapon then don't be afraid to use it, especially if it's a nice artifact like Executor. Hurthling monks work well if you want to give that a shot - they start with the archery skill, and are pretty good with thrown rocks. Wands of poison work nicely, as do wands of paralyis. For damage things like wands of acid work well too (especially if you have a buffer of elementals in front of you - they shrug off the bolts more often), and if you want to go to the Rift for extra offensive spells that'll certainly help (I usually do the Rift before the Tower). Some form of confusion resistance is vital (eg ring of the clear mind). Precrownings can help with better equipment. Don't be so obsessed over the Candle starsign, it ain't all that special in my opinion. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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PeanutGod Registered user Lord of Misery Last page view: 5052 days, 19 hours, 4 minutes and 27 seconds ago. |
Ah, back to the ACW. He's a lovely guy. Welcome. Did you max out your Dex/WP/Tou with herbs before you tried to kill the worm. Just a thought. You mentioned that your stats were around the '20' mark. This could certainly help when tackling him the next time around. It's not that hard to find a bow in the game. Kobolds, barbarians, raiders - they all use them. If you can't find one in a dungeon, go and kill a few barbarians in the wilderness. Lots of bows, and more importantly - lots of arrows (some of which may be slaying ammo). Have to agree with Darren on this one, missile weapons are super important, although a lot of people seem to be put off by having to train 'another weapon skill'. Unless you're a wizard, IMHO you need to have one of your missile weapon skills as high as possible. It can save your ass in a tight spot. Remember, it doesn't have to be dragon slaying ammo. Penetrating/Unerring/of Darkness arrows all help. And remember, poison your arrows as well, it always helps. I know the candle starsign is appealing, but like Darren said above, its not all that. Whats wrong with Raven with +10 speed? Brilliant for a monk in my eyes. Or even the Dragon starsign - sure you lose a little willpower, but thats easily restored with morgia. To build up a character to kill the Wyrm? Be an archer who can shoot the testicles from a fly at 100 yards, or a Wizard who can ball the bugger to death. As a monk, if you find a decent weapon early on, train it just in case. Get your missile skills up, do everything you can to train your stats. Use herbs, use Garth. Do some ID diving for some spellbooks (even if it only is magic missile - best spell ever). Eat claw bug corpses to raise your Dex, then sort your willpower out after. If he can't hit you, he can't hurt you. And remember not to be burdened, have the appropiate talents. Porter talents are a must for a monk. Get the Quick talents as well. Try and move faster than Superman on crack. ----- Ladies and Gentleman, take my advice. Pull down your pants, and slide on the ice. Ladies and Gentleman, take my advice. Pull down your pants, and slide on the ice. |
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Covenant Registered user The Unbeliever Last page view: 5461 days, 9 hours, 25 minutes and 40 seconds ago. |
Thanks for the replies people. The annoying this is, I HAD Executor. Picked it up from a surge of power in the TotHK. Only I figure that, seeming as how I'm a Monk, I'd be best off smacking a giant mutated fiery Wyrm around with my fists instead of a mythical axe (I have the Learning of a troll, apparently :P). I like Candle because of the extra talent and the healing - I find I die too easily without the faster regen. As for the talent, it allows me to pick up Alert and Strong Legs, which I'm taking a bit of a gamble on, because I'm hoping Strong Legs improves my success at kicking down walls. If it doesn't, it is a bit of a waste (not a fan of circular kick). Willpower was pretty low - about 17 - but Toughness was maxed out. Dex HAD been, then I got my scales corruption. Boo. And as for burdening, I'd somehow managed to find a Strength of Atlas book, so that was helping out a lot. My speed was around the 120 mark, and I had 7LBs, so I thought that if not Superman on crack, I was at least Robin on PCP. So far I've not been picking up the Long Stride talent - I figured that with a movement cost of 600 anyway, plus 7LBs (ideally), the reduction of 950 wasn't particularly significant. Is that right? I always have a hard time picking talents, once I've got the early ones (Healthy, if that's what the +20% regen one's called, Treasure Hunter, Porter, Brawler, and I generally just settle on the Quick ones). Gaah. I just made a new Monk, find some 7LBs in the Outlaw Town, only to die from some hobg oblins in the wilderness. Dooooomed! Knowledge is chimera, for beyond it ever lies other knowledge, and the incompleteness of what is known renders the knowing false. |
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Cat Lord Lord Registered user Not really Last page view: 5445 days, 15 hours, 21 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
First of all, welcome to the forum. Also, your monk was perfectly normal. A note on stats though, is when you get the scales corruption your dex goes down. You can use moss to get this back up, and when you remove the corruption the dex goes up even higher. My monk's (winner) PV was never high, but his DV on berserk was 100 later on, and it was always really high. Most characters have loads of trouble with AKW, but a few things should help 1. Dragon slaying ammo. Two of these from an archer killed him with me. It does LOADS of damage. 2. Wands. Rock, if you have anything remotely resembling paralization zap it and it makes it so much easier. Any thing of damage rocks also. Get a grue between you and him, and he can't hurt you. Also, most tough monsters resist Wands of death, this is willpower dependent I think. 3. Confusion. I never really had trouble with it, but others have so you might want to bring rings of clear mind, high WO, things like that. 4. Prayers+healing. You said he got you down to 1 hp in one turn right? Did you have a turn after that to do something or did he get two attacks? Prayers can take the place of a PoEH.Also, don't use spenseweed on him if you are near him. He is easily capable of doing more then 27 damage a turn. Also, max out alertness to dodge energy attacks. 5. Dealing real damage. I would have used my fists rather then executor. Its a humanoid slayer, so I don't think it would have helped. Monks do the more damage the higher level they are, which is why gnomes and hurthlings are great monks. 6. Talents. Treasure hunter is good. The bookcasting and auras are good too. Beyond the beginning ones, there aren't really that many good talents. Hope that helps. Homework is not meant for home! It's a sick verbal coincidence! -My brother |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4239 days, 22 hours, 20 minutes and 48 seconds ago. |
Long Stride is useful early on, and I usually take it with weak character who really need that boost before they find SLBs. If you're comfortable without it then there's no need to use a talent on it. Otherwise I go for the defensive ones and, very importantly, the missile ones - things like Eagle Eyed and Lightning Shot are insanely powerful. Executor is a terrible shame to pass up on. It's nothing special against the ACW beyond its normal damage, but that is bloody high. Last time I killed the Wyrm was with a drakish healer wielding Executor - he fell to three hits (admittedly I did have very high strength). I'm fairly sure Strong Legs won't affect kicking through walls, but I could be wrong on that. I've never actually used that monk ability - wands of digging are always so plentiful. Oh and your low willpower was probably a rerason why you confused so easily - be sure to train it up with morgia, and having the water orb in your tool slot really helps. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Gozer Unregistered user |
Welcome to ADOM and the Hall of Fame community. First things first, when playing a monk you have to appreciate that you will have a harder time going up against the ACW than an archer, wizard, or tanking character like a barbarian. That said, all of the advice shared above is spot on. There are two things I would add: 1. Patience. Use all of the suggestions above to prepare your character as thoroughly as possible. Scum the wilderness for bows and arrows. Train your stats. Get pre-crowned. The "natural" growth curve of most monk characters still leaves them fairly fragile and outgunned in the mid-game relative to a serious opponent like the ACW. Barring some obscenely good luck, you are going to have to *EARN* the development that is needed to confidently take down your nemesis. 2. Caution. Wading through hordes of bad guys just to take on the Big Bad is a no-no. Developing your character and accumulating the equipment necessary to destroy the ACW is only 50% of the solution. The other 50% is strategy. Lure the ACW out instead of going to it (e.g. use wands of cold to draw it out). Make it difficult for the ACW to escape you once you have almost destroyed it (e.g. wands of paralysation, traps). Avoid unnecessary contact with its minions (e.g. invisibility, strategic tunneling, lure it down the stairs). Avoid melee (e.g. ranged weapons, magic, a powerful pet) if at all possible unless you have an insanely powerful weapon. Try searching for threads about the ACW and ToEF - you will find plenty more advice there. Good luck! |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5142 days, 4 hours, 15 minutes and 11 seconds ago. |
What you are doing wrong? One thing I noted was that you felt you had to do fire tower first because you didn't want Khelly to die... Next time you get to Khelly without the amulet, just let him die, and proceed down the stairs. You will find more items, monsters and exp, and mabye better things there. The water orb would likely have saved you in the tower - worn in tool slot it gives +10 willpower (helps against confusion)(also gives some HP)(and you can (u)se it to heal ALL damage for some measly corruption). I'm quoted as listing the three things you need to get past the Wyrm: * Hitpoints. 200+. More is better. This to avoid sudden death by magical attack * Healing. Spenseweed/pepper petal is only a supplement to your Extra/Ultra healing potions, you need them after you take one of the -150 hp attacks. (This will also increase your max, so not that much loss really..) * Some way of killing the Wyrm. Surprisingly many forget this. Even though that is your prime mission in the tower. Now, your char used big healing potions before the actual fight - this is not good. Use spenseweed/petals, even uncursed works. Because you have time to use it while waiting for next monster. You were too low level. At level 25 your attacks would have hit more, and done more damage. Monks martial art innate ability increases with level. You could have done it with slaying ammo, but in melee you were not gonna win without heavy use of potions and corruption. To beat the Wyrm in your game, you should have stopped up and improved your character by earning more exp and advance 4-5 levels, finding more wands, building up willpower, dragon slaying ammo, get past Khelly. Thats the safe way, it is doable at low levels if you use funny tricks. Sometimes he is pathetically easy, sometimes the hardest fight in the game. I have stopped dying to him, but that is because I fear him so much that I leave him no chance... |
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Covenant Registered user The Unbeliever Last page view: 5461 days, 9 hours, 25 minutes and 40 seconds ago. |
Heh, I love the RNG. This char, I'm level 18 and I've already found a giant boar skull (just on my way to see the Old Barbarian), 3 scrolls of danger, a potion of cure corruption, RoI, 135+ speed, managed to get pre-crowned for the first time ever, with Protector, and best of all, I just ACCIDENTALLY got a wish at Darkforge (meant to drink a PoGA after being aged at a pool and becoming burdened, hit D and then accidentally space - which inputted 'Yes I'll drink from the pool' - and I get my chance to wish for an AoLS!). Haven't even killed a cat yet, and there's been a fair number of em. Heh, and I thought I was really unlucky when I saw that jet-black glaive artifact generated in the Bandit Town shop at the beginning... Obviously, with all this luck, it's only a matter of time before the RNG spawns a Greater Moloch next to me. But I'm being damn careful to minimise the chances, so we'll see. I've learned from my past mistakes - no taking on the ToEF for a long while yet :P And I'm training up missiles - bows are level 9 now. That reminds me, when everyone mentions slaying ammo, do they mean 'of slaying' or 'of -foo- slaying'? Like, I presume, demon slaying for the ACW? Either way, this time, I'm not even going in until I have 300hp, just to be safe. Oh, by the way, was anyone else surprised when they found out an amulet of protection from undead doesn't save you from ghostly age drain attacks? That was a surprise. Aren't ghosts undead? And one more thing, would it be a smart move to do the Gaab'Bay quests as soon as I get 6 artifacts? I was thinking of saccing the Crown of Science, the Si, Torc, Big Punch, the Moon Sickle, and the Sword of Nonnak. I've heard a lot about how difficult it is switching back to neutral to get the TotRR after doing her quests, but if I already have all her hard-to-get items, couldn't I save Khelly, then straight away turn chaotic and satisfy the Ratling, go to HMV, give Gaab'Bay her items, then turn back neutral relatively easily (as I'd be most likely under level 22, dependingo on how hard that Greater Demon is)? Sorry for going OT with my questions, I just really want to make this char the one that finally becomes an Ultimate Chaos God. Knowledge is chimera, for beyond it ever lies other knowledge, and the incompleteness of what is known renders the knowing false. |
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Taz Registered user Registered user Last page view: 5026 days, 1 hour, 17 minutes and 41 seconds ago. |
with that luck you'll probably get a greater moloch on either side of you :P ammo of slaying slays everything. and you need dragon-slaying ammo against the ACW (i dont think demon slaying works. i might be wrong though). i'm not sure what amulets of protection from undead/construct do. in fact, i'm not sure they do anything at all... you cant give the si to the demented ratling. you could give him the phial of caladriel instead. and i'd maybe keep the moon sickle for potions of raw chaos and sword of nonnak for the willpower boost when i need it. but those are two things that i rarely need. i'm still not familiar with the requirements for ultra endings, so i'm not sure if you can convert back to neutral under level 22. but if you're going for a ultimate chaos ending, cant you stay chaotic all the way? Taz: A potion of gain attributes (4s) is lying here. Suddenly a stone block hits your head! Something on the ground is smashed to pieces! PeanutGod: Awwww no! How harsh is that! This is where you need the artefact 'mop and bucket'. |
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Soirana unplugged Unregistered user |
IIRC, amulet of protection from undead stops banshee vail from instant killing you. does fair amount of damage anyway, over 300 or smthing like that, and there are guaranteed bees above banshee. |
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Ekaterin Moderator on this forum Last page view: 5766 days, 3 hours, 56 minutes and 8 seconds ago. |
Taz, Khelly won't give you the Trident if you're chaotic. Also, IIRC being chaotic renders you more vulnerable to corruption. I don't think converting back to neutral is that hard - find a neutral altar and keep saccing small amounts of gold until you're neutral too. Wear/wield artifacts and artifacts only while doing this in case the neutral god gets mad and tries to turn your equipment to dust. |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5142 days, 4 hours, 15 minutes and 11 seconds ago. |
The ratling will not take the si as fodder, sorry. Pick up the Phial of Galadriel (or uselessness) instead. Before saccing the crown of science, try this: When you are JUST about to level, put it on. Then level. This will give you extra skill-training due to high learning (if you need them). Need to remove the curse to take it off, put this is usually trivial at this point in the game. ACW is a dragon. A wyrm is a great big bloated dragon. Arrows of slaying are good versus everything, of (foo) slaying only against the (foo). But it could be that the specific (foo) slayers are "better" than regular slayers. I don't know. Bless the arrows, it will help. Of course you won't put them in missile slot till the wyrm is lined up in your sights. Wand of webbing and/or stunning might give you some free shots. Your monk has good movement (only 600 energy cost), so you can fire and retreat. You have alertness and dodge (train these anytime you can) which should avoid the Wyrms energy attack quite a few times. I predict an easy Wyrmslaying this time. You have done the water temple already haven't you? Put that orb in the tool slot, when you get fire one you might wanna put that there instead for the Strength. Going to neutral is very very easy, you can do it at any level. with altars it takes 10 turns, max. Blessed amulet of order works till level 40-ish. (over 40 it is very slow). So the "problem" being discussed is how to get L+ (for ultra lawful win) when you are level 50. This is not easy at all, and takes time and effort. So [u]your[/u] only problem is that you cannot become crowned till after you get trident, which will be at least over level 45. The RNG being an equalizer is pure superstition. Getting all that good stuff only means that you will have an easier game, not that the game "remembers" your luck and therefore generates something nasty. The only danger is that the player becomes overconfident after early luck, and then dies to something stupid. But finding something good is always good, it doesn't come with a future guarantee of something stupid. This superstition grows out of selective memory of people - you remember the one char that found a Djinni ring and then died unexpectedly to (a nasty foo), but you do not remember the 5 other chars who found nothing special and then died to a (nasty foo) because then you just shrug and move on. This game is so hard that dying to (a nasty foo) must always be expected, great items found or no. |
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Taz Registered user Registered user Last page view: 5026 days, 1 hour, 17 minutes and 41 seconds ago. |
ekaterin, if he wants to do a chaos ending, does he need the trident or to change alignment? i'm not familiar with this at all and cant be bothered to open the gb. Taz: A potion of gain attributes (4s) is lying here. Suddenly a stone block hits your head! Something on the ground is smashed to pieces! PeanutGod: Awwww no! How harsh is that! This is where you need the artefact 'mop and bucket'. |
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Ekaterin Moderator on this forum Last page view: 5766 days, 3 hours, 56 minutes and 8 seconds ago. |
He said "Ultimate Chaos God", so yes, he needs the trident. You may be thinking of the Ordinary Chaos God ending where you don't need to save Khelly and can stay chaotic all the way. |
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Cat Lord Lord Registered user Not really Last page view: 5445 days, 15 hours, 21 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
Speaking of sacing, it is VERY important to wield a si. My monk winner kept changing back from neutral to lawful (doing acts of good, bad, etc) so I wanted to get crowned lawful. I sacced one gold and didn't take off all my items because I had done it a number of times before and nothing bad happened. *MORTAL! YOU SHALL BE PUNISHED!" Lost the only chest armor I could use (really nice elven chain mail) along with all my really nice stuff, soo annoying... Homework is not meant for home! It's a sick verbal coincidence! -My brother |
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Covenant Registered user The Unbeliever Last page view: 5461 days, 9 hours, 25 minutes and 40 seconds ago. |
Thanks for the advice everyone, it really helped. It seems the game gets pretty easy after killing the ACW, really. Ah well, now for the BDC... At level 30... *dies* Knowledge is chimera, for beyond it ever lies other knowledge, and the incompleteness of what is known renders the knowing false. |