Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / Spoilers / Stat scumming with starvation
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J. Registered user You'll never get rid of me Last page view: 4622 days, 9 hours and 28 minutes ago. |
When you starve your character, St, Le, Wi and Dx start dropping and continue to drop, eventually to levels less than half of normal. When they stop dropping, you then have a chance to starve every turn after that. You don't starve until your stats have dropped all the way. The most common way to (ab)use this feature is to starve your character before eating a strength-increasing corpse. You can also use blessed Crystals of Knowledge to increase your Learning; this is most useful for characters with gemology (gnome, troll, elementalist, merchant, mindcrafter). A third way, which might not be apparent right away is to lower Dx and Wi so as to increase them beyond the 25 limit. Herbs stop training your stats when you get to 25, so it's possible to get 1 or 2 more if you eat/use as many herbs at possible when the stat is at 24 and the training carries over. A common way to bypass this limit has been to eat devil's roses, sickening your char and thus lowering your stats, making it possible to reach at least 28/30/30 in Wi,Dx,To. Starvation doesn't affect To, but it does lower Wi and Dx. So you can starve your char, use/eat herbs while the stats are lower, to get training to the stats. Next time the game checks for stat increases, it will notice that you have trained the stats and will increase them, even though they are higher than 25. This will, I think, allow you to reach the 50s in Wi and Dx using herbs. You can, of course, use both sickening and starvation at the same time. Now that I think about it, I believe it might be possible to starve yourself before giving money to Garth, so as to get cheaper training/train stats to a higher level. Naturally I don't have any evidence yet and might not even test it, as I usually don't bother with Garth training much, but it's a theory at least. If you're feeling happy, don't worry, it'll go away. Originally posted by noob: "I'm everytime amazed how you people know to exploit every single little bug (or not-bug) for elaborated scumming tatics even if the feature seems completely useless or bad." [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/8/2007 at 10:13 (GMT -5) by J.] |
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BrasilianWeirdVideos Registered user pron knight Last page view: 4125 days, 12 hours, 5 minutes and 44 seconds ago. |
Interesting! Who knows.. |
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Maelstrom Registered user The Knight of the Black Rose Last page view: 2075 days, 10 hours, 2 minutes and 52 seconds ago. |
It is possible, but starvation lowers St too, and that might be a problem. You starve St too low, you die, that's what I've noticed from my games. A pessimist sees a dark tunnel. An optimist sees a light at the end of that tunnel. A realist sees a train. And the train driver sees three idiots on the tracks. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/8/2007 at 14:33 (GMT -5) by Maelstrom] |
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J. Registered user You'll never get rid of me Last page view: 4622 days, 9 hours and 28 minutes ago. |
Yes, you have to be very careful when doing this. Also, it's somewhat hard to do with morgia roots, because eating it of course adds to your nutrition, raising the stats up a bit. Mosses are easier to use. But, using this trick, some amulet and perseverence&sword of nonnak, I'm able to reach Wi: 64 with my lvl 19 wizard, that's a first:) First I'm planning to introduce the steel golems in darkforge to lightning ball, after that, the denizens of the fire temple to ice ball :) Another thing I'm very happy about is, that I finally found a use for a whip! With Dx: 55 in the early game, lvl 10 in UD, a 1d3+0 was my most damaging weapon. If you're feeling happy, don't worry, it'll go away. Originally posted by noob: "I'm everytime amazed how you people know to exploit every single little bug (or not-bug) for elaborated scumming tatics even if the feature seems completely useless or bad." [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/8/2007 at 17:18 (GMT -5) by J.] |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 4099 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes and 3 seconds ago. |
Solution to morgia: Starve starve starve eat (one root) starve starve starve eat etc. (Or better, use moss, use moss, use moss, eat morgia, use moss, use crystal of knowledge etc.) Solution to ST: Did you mean by crushing death? That can happen if you carry a lot of stuff....like ogre corpses. Death by starvation is, by starvation and not reduced strength. The way I use to check if death is imminent, is: Notice your strength when you first become starving!. (It should be 4 less than normal, but if sick even less). Now you can safely starve until strength is half this value, rounded down. When you hit this rock bottom, all other stats will stay the same, and a few moves later you will be dead. Typical example: St is 41 naturally. You become sick for -2. Then you first become starving! and get -4, for a new value of 35. Divide by 2 for 17,5, round down to 17. So you can safely starve down to 17. If you eat a corpse (ogre) RIGHT after you hit this value you are 100% safe. Stay starved at this level at your own risk. It typically takes 40 or so turns to die. One quick test of mine yielded (numer of '5' pressed after ST was minimized, speed 100 naturally) death after 56, 47, 59 turns. But the way I see it, reduced ST is a consequence of starving, not the cause. Does not matter in the least, though. Corollary: It is therefore quite easy to get 42 strength with nothing other than basic ogre/giant corpses Corollary II: This training of ST by corpses is one reason why stomachemptia is a very nice herb to have. Especially for characters without cooking/food preservation (They can use shop as corpse-storage facilities though, but time-consuming) Alternative method: I suppose simply walking around burdened/strained will train ST too, but that also takes a long time. Using the eat-one-herb-at-a-time method you could stay permanently with a highly reduced ST and eligible for training. Or you could use the crap ratling food (crunchy frog, cockroach cluster or what they are called) Post Scriptum: Training Toughness is a bit harder, but how about cursed potions of boost toughness? That should work just fine. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/9/2007 at 06:57 (GMT -5) by Molach] |
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GiantFrog Registered user another gray elven wizard Last page view: 4393 days, 9 hours, 44 minutes and 2 seconds ago. |
Let me make sure I understand something - the actual value of the stat only matters at the moment you train? For example, let's say I have Dx 26 normally. I eat a kobold shaman or whatever and Dx goes to 21. Now I use some moss and then immediately eat a curaria. My Dx is back up to 26, but I'll still get the training increase later? IOW, is it true that I don't have to keep Dx (or any other stat) low until the training kicks in? You pick up the worn boots. |
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Narcolepcy Registered user Last page view: 3764 days, 15 hours, 43 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
No need to keep it low, I usually stay sick while sick training but if u dont want to i dont think it matters. Never thought of cursed stat boosting potions wonder if that'd work, Just checked and it doesnt, what a shame. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/10/2007 at 05:14 (GMT -5) by Narcolepcy] |
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Soirana Registered user Chaos Freak Last page view: 3107 days, 19 hours, 50 minutes and 31 seconds ago. |
cursed boost potions make slight POSITIVE boost to your stat.(2-3 points to stat) somehow i do not understand how they help to train stats. Must be sort of stupid. A root is a flower that disdains fame. Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931) [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/9/2007 at 23:02 (GMT -5) by Soirana] |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 4099 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes and 3 seconds ago. |
My fault, I assumed they lowered whatever they were meant to boost when cursed(like regular stat potions). Since there is no point in using a regual stat potion I guess this won't work. At all. |
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J. Registered user You'll never get rid of me Last page view: 4622 days, 9 hours and 28 minutes ago. |
GiantFrog: That's exactly what my point was. With sickness, I normally stay that way all the time, it's easier... But with starvation you can just drop the stats down, use some herbs, and go on as normal, the stat increase will come. If you're feeling happy, don't worry, it'll go away. Originally posted by noob: "I'm everytime amazed how you people know to exploit every single little bug (or not-bug) for elaborated scumming tatics even if the feature seems completely useless or bad." |
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GiantFrog Registered user another gray elven wizard Last page view: 4393 days, 9 hours, 44 minutes and 2 seconds ago. |
Well that makes "starve scumming" much more convenient. I've been trying this with my current character doing the ogre caves. I must have bad luck, though. I've now eaten 4 ogre corpses w/St at 8 and haven't gotten a single increase. Ratsn fratsn. You pick up the worn boots. |
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Nightmare Registered user Soul Calibur 2 Last page view: 3557 days, 4 hours, 38 minutes and 54 seconds ago. |
That sucks giant frog. I thought somebody said that you could get up to 18 str with ogre corpses, then you'd need giant corpses after that. "As for me, I feel priveleged to be among the only species able to make scientific inquiries." -unknown "Be sure to keep your distance if you don't have resistance." -DG |
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Narcolepcy Registered user Last page view: 3764 days, 15 hours, 43 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
As long as you have 18 strength or less you have an average chance of 25 percent to gain strength from ogre corpses, probably influenced by blessed status, so 8 str shouldnt really help ur chances, musta got screwed by the rng though. |
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GiantFrog Registered user another gray elven wizard Last page view: 4393 days, 9 hours, 44 minutes and 2 seconds ago. |
Yeah, that's what I figured. There are still some fat boys down there, though, so I have a few opportunities left. You pick up the worn boots. |
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Tianjin Registered user for monsters - Death incarnate Last page view: 4557 days, 23 hours, 35 minutes and 18 seconds ago. |
If you've got the Sulphur Breath corruption - spit ONLY 2x after hitting Starving, and your Stats are at minimum. 3x will kill you. Try the TiLiCat! It's experience! Tiger, stuffed with deboned Lion, stuffed with deboned Wildcat, and slow roasted with a mix of herbs. (served raw for Trolls) |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 4099 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes and 3 seconds ago. |
About Ogres - yes the quest is a good way to get a few corpses, but lately I've found mining to generate sdtone giants much more feasible. Because stone giant corpses have a higher gain-percenage... |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 4314 days, 14 hours, 33 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
but with 7lg boots you can fight ogre war parties, for several corpses. an addition to the spitting thingie. you can spit yourself to starvation safely regardless of current satiation value! everytime you get to starved point, just count 2 more and eat. yet another reason why drakelings rock! EDIT: a lot more safer than the above, which can actually kill, is to emit a glob once after starving! is archieved and then walk around until stats stop dropping. This is a couple steps before you die! [Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/24/2007 at 14:38 (GMT -5) by Jhonka] |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 4314 days, 14 hours, 33 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
I started stat "scumming" with a drakish ranger in bug willage. I ate only greater bug corpses, as soon as one was generated i exited the bugwil and used the acid glob to reduce my satiation to starvation. Once dex did not drop anymore i ate a corpse. At first i got 5-6 dex. After dex reached 25 the the increase was only 3-4 per corpse. When score was past 50(!!) the increase was almost always 2 per corpse. Without starvation the max gain is 30 with greater clawbugs, so 60(!) seems to be the maximum with starvation. Theoretically i should be able to get dex to 86 with bugs, since max dexterity with killer bugs is 43 without starvation. speed did not rise above 170 with gcb corpses. So right now i have a 16 lvl ranger with 60 dexterity and 170 speed. :D [Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/24/2007 at 13:06 (GMT -5) by Jhonka] |
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F50 Registered user Last page view: 4434 days, 5 hours, 59 minutes and 8 seconds ago. |
can you get better speed with slow monster spell? "If the bread weights that much in the draklor chain, then it's no wonder so many die of starvation. AND - what kind of IRON RATION weights as much as an iron shield?! A dinner for four, oven included? ;)" -Maelstrom |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 4314 days, 14 hours, 33 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
I got myself cursed and doomed by eating the oracle corpse, this had the effect of getting dx to 66 with gcb corpses. I think that this has nothing to do with being cursed and doomed, insted the corpses that i ate were blessed. When dex 66 i started eating the killer bug corpses. The dex did not rise at all!!!! But my speed is now 196. I'll try if blessing the corpses have the same effect to kb:s as it had on gcb:s. So now i'm harvesting the big room for potions of water. By the way, my ranger has only keen shot, archery at 50 and starting dex 15, so this could just as easily accomplished without archery skill. I use seven league boots and a blessed amulet of eye and that's all that i'm wearing. Bugs bypass PV and without armor there is the true berseker bonus so this is what i'd recommend. I cleared the first 3 rooms from killer bugs(cursed/doomed) and so far i've acquired 2 poga, 1 pocc, wyrmlance and know surroundings corruption(I ate the corpses while in bugcav hence the time consumed and corruption gained). I have treasure hunter. My toughness is at 19 and because of my speed, the greater bugs lining the walls of the starting room did not kill me when i ran up and down the stairs, so low health does not seem to be a problem. So far i've used only 5 days of game time, currently i'm at day 33. I'd say that harvesting the bugwil for max dex from gcb:s and bugcav from killers and stopping them from breeding will take less than 10 days (2 hours real time). Without the cursed/doomed this would probable be even simpler, but even though rangers do not possess find weakness i get instakill approximately every 5 shots and with the intrisics i get the arrows from barbarian groups a lot faster. Bow using is at 11 and i started with 5. Acquiring the first couple corpses were a bit tricky, but i managed it by luring the bugs one at a time at the top of the screen and then exiting. When i came back the bug was about in the middle an i got to shoot it a couple of times. This had to be repeated a couple of times before i got it killed. With food preservation at 100 a corpse is generated every 5 kills. Killer bugs should not be killed with a bow before dex is over 35, insted i'd recommend a wand of lighning/fire/ice/acid/magic missiles for the bug village killers. They seem not to be able to shrug off the bolts. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/25/2007 at 05:50 (GMT -5) by Jhonka] |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 3855 days, 16 hours, 50 minutes and 36 seconds ago. |
If you want to extend your field of vision by a couple of squares, you can carry a lit torch in your tools slot. That's handy for keeping them from sneaking up behind you. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 4314 days, 14 hours, 33 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
Gaining speed from corpses is not a problem, it can be carried out easily by just picking up the corpse and getting overburdened when starving! is archieved. I deliberately did not do this, since i want to know how high does the speed get with only starvation. |
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Jhonka Registered user Kickass player Last page view: 4314 days, 14 hours, 33 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
I've now cleared the bugcaw from killer bugs and greater claw bugs. After dex goes over 32, when starving, the increase is somewhat random. Speed is gained as before. Neither dex nor speed gain will be increased with blessed/uncursed/cursed status of the corpse. They just happen. I'm not sure, but it does seem that the maximum dex gained from corpses is between 76 and 80. I can't tell for sure, since the last ten increases in dex were random, i'd say that one dex to every 7 corpse. Max speed seems to be 236 from corpses. After that even quickling did not yield any increase. There you go, just in case someone is interested. Lvl 17 dex 76 speed 210, kickass! This one's going for ultra .D |
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Toast Unregistered user |
I am confused about the starving and/or sickness. When stats are as low as they go, do I eat "pairs" of the morgia root/Use moss of mareilon and wait for the stat to increase? Would I need to eat enough other food to bring all stats to normal first? Is there a cumulative effect of eating more than one "pair" of morgia root/Using moss of mareilon? By "pair" I mean the number of morgia/moss of mareilon generally believed to increase the stat. One source said 2 blessed or 2 uncursed if not at maximum(potential/cap) and 4 or 8 if at maximum. Will this manifest by raising BOTH the base/cap or just the potential/cap? I am wondering if I have to wait until starving to repeat this for a nondrakeling or eat some stomcemptia to get back low and start again... Thank you. |
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Toast Unregistered user |
My source: http://www.adomgb.info/adomgb-0-6.html "Eating 2 morgia roots, any status, will train Toughness. Eating 4 morgia roots, any status, will also train Willpower. If the stats are already at their potential maximum, 8 morgia roots are required." "Using 2 blessed or uncursed mosses of mareilon trains Dexterity. If the Dexterity stat is already at its potential maximum, 4 mosses of mareilon are required. Using cursed moss of mareilon abuses the Dexterity stat." "In any case, do not eat or use additional herbs until the stat increases have taken effect - this may take a while. Note that training stats in this way is more effective when the stats are low. Eating four morgia, for instance, may cause two or three increases in Willpower and Toughness if the stats are in the single digits. Once above ten, the stat increases seem to occur one point at a time." |
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Spartank Unregistered user |
I do not use herp starvation i do not know how it works exactly but it sounds too risky. I do use starvation with stomasemptia herp to eat str corpses after their cap but that is safe as every time you eat you are not dying just be sure not to do anything else in your turns but eat after the stats are drained to half their value becourse after this point there is an increasing chnce each turn that you die of starvation. If eating morgias or using mareillons the most efficient way is indeed eat/use just enough to satisfy the 2/4/8 or 2/4. However some do it differently They eat or use 100 or so blessed and go on with their adventure when the level up does not anymore provide stat increase they check at wich point the tstats are and if lower than 25 they eat/use some more |