Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / Spoilers / Find Weakness & Slaying Powers
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moomoo Registered user Last page view: 5390 days, 11 hours, 2 minutes and 8 seconds ago. |
I'm interested in knowing how the afore mentioned powers stack if at all? The situation behind this is as follows: My hurthing merchant (a real weakling) is striving for ultra, currently at earth temple. I have 2 wishes at the moment and I'm thinking of getting Find weakness for the nasties ahead. I have purifier and nice arrows for temples and bdc, and totrr soon enough for the rest (yeah right). I also have Rotmc(+crit in this). So how much does find weakness help in this situation. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4245 days, 6 hours, 6 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
As far as I know slaying weapons automatically critical against their monster type, so Find Weakness won't help at all with that. However if you don't have an appropriate slaying item for the situation then Find Weakness affects both melee and missiles and will stack with +crit items like RotMC - can be handy. Still, if you have other things you'd rather wish for then stick to those. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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moomoo Registered user Last page view: 5390 days, 11 hours, 2 minutes and 8 seconds ago. |
Sadly I'm under the same impression :( So no way improving my melee prowess I guess. |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4903 days, 8 hours, 23 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
If you have a wish available, and you want better melee abilities, wish for a ring of weakness and kill/eat some ogres in the wilderness. If you have a weapon with the suffix 'of damnation' it will speed things up. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Sylph Registered user Last page view: 5305 days, 13 hours, 22 minutes and 1 second ago. |
Just to put my tuppence in - I tested find weakness and +crit items, and my tests suggest: Slaying: x3 - x6 damage non-slaying critical: x2 - x5 damage Chance of critical - 1/20 +1-4 for find weakness +5 for a +crit item (ring of master cat, bracers of war, bloody dagger, axe of minotaur emperor etc..) I'm yet to test whether it's possible to get 100% critical hits, because I haven't found the bracers of war or ring of the master cat for so long, but I'm guessing it's possible with find weakness 100, bracers of war, +crit weapon, and the ring of the master cat. Perhaps wielding 2 bloody daggers would make it possible without the bracers? |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3183 days, 19 hours, 30 minutes and 6 seconds ago. |
The big difference is that slaying bypasses pv and crits do not. Unfortunately slaying and find weakness don't stack as far as I know. So, if you have vanquisher, then you don't need find weakness, but there's lots of stuff TotRR doesn't slay. Not all +crit bonuses are equal in crit chance. eg. murderous dagger < bloody dagger < axe of mino emperor. You can try different stuff out to test which crits more often. I tested these items on an assassin char awhile back and posted the results here, so you could also do a search for that. |
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Sylph Registered user Last page view: 5305 days, 13 hours, 22 minutes and 1 second ago. |
I don't think slaying bypasses PV at all actually AshenPlanet. There was some extensive testing done on RGRA a good while ago that suggested it does not. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4245 days, 6 hours, 6 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
Best way to get 100% crits would be with assassin class power (they get +20%) aand as many crit items as possible. Fate smiles is meant to help too. I've always wanted to get an Assassin with BoW and kitty ring and Axe of the Minotaur Emperor and to crit on almost every hit... Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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MightyChaos Registered user ADoM Veteran Last page view: 5066 days, 16 hours, 53 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
darren, i did have that a few years ago with drakish assassin. she slaughtered things very easily **<i love this game?** |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3183 days, 19 hours, 30 minutes and 6 seconds ago. |
I did that setup awhile back on an assassin, tried out all different combinations of weapons + items. You never get to 100% crit rate. It's easy to get to 2 out of every 3 hits a crit with just a few items, but it slows down there. Found the random Crit items with that char too. Ankh + bracers + kitty ring + luck ring + axe + lucky + fate smailes + assassin 50 is not 100% crit, but close. As for weapons, emperor axe > bloody dagger > emerald dagger > murderous as far as crit rate goes. The only item I didn't get that would add to that rate is the platinum girdle (which I have yet to get with any character). Slaying weapons do bypass pv as long as they are blessed. It's easy to see this against high pv mobs like greater/emperor molochs. You can crit all day and not hurt them with non-slaying weapons, but even a weak char can hurt them with a slaying weapon. If your testing indicated otherwise, the mobs were probably not the appropriate type for the slaying weapon. Try running the tests again. What I am not positive about is whether slaying and crits stack. Much empirical data from my playing and testing very strongly suggests that they don't stack, but I can't be 100% sure. |
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Sylph Registered user Last page view: 5305 days, 13 hours, 22 minutes and 1 second ago. |
'Slaying weapons do bypass pv as long as they are blessed.' AshenPlanet, do you have evidence to back that up? I'm very interested in looking through your numbers, in case it's been changed since g16pre2... Cheers for the info concerning never reaching 100% crit. I guess that means that every chance of getting a critical (which I believe is 5% base, 20% for find weakness 100, and + up to 25% for +crit items) is not additive. Might be worth trying wielding two bloody daggers instead of the axe for an increased chance. My evidence for crits and slaying is based on a RGRA post from Malte Helmert, but when the investigation goes as far as predicting exact damage numbers based on the roll of the D6 before it is adjusted for being blessed, then again based on a multiplier of 3, 4, 5 or 6x, I'd say with a great deal of certainty that it's pretty damn accurate, and this evidence states that slaying does *not* bypass PV... Remember, x3 - x6 damage is a *large* modifer. If your base damage is only 10, you're not gonna harm a decent Pv at all, but with blessed slaying you're doing a minimum of 45 damage (and up to 90), enough to bypass almost any PV in the game. Furthermore, it's possible to hit a greater moloch with a blessed demon-slaying arrow and not harm it - this can be tested by any low-level PC that gets an early wish. Evidence is this: Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.adom From: Malte Helmert <helm...@informatik.uni-freiburg.de> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:36:27 +0200 Subject: YAGBU: Slaying missiles and critical hits Dear group, more experiments with WADOMF and g16pre2. All experiments consisted of fights against balors. The numbers listed are the points of damage scored, taking a PV of 40 into account. PV and hit points of the opponent were measured with a blessed stethoscope. The PC had the Find Weakness skill at level 100. ... Experiment 3: Arrows ==================== A first exploratory experiment showed that blessed arrows and a blessed bow lead to 50% more damage against demons than uncursed arrows and a blessed bow. Occasional critical hits seemed to deal much more damage, observing double, triple and quintuple damage in the few critical hits counted. All further experiments were conducted arrows where "M" showed a base damage of 1d6+16. Thus, the expected damage range for uncursed arrows was 17-22 and the expected damage range for blessed arrows was 25-33. Assuming that blessed damage is calculated by rolling uncursed damage, then multiplying by 1.5 and rounding down, it was expected that only six of the values in the interval 25-33 actually occur, namely 25, 27,28, 30, 31, and 33. This was found to be true. Experiment 3A: Critical hits ============================ Blessed arrows without slaying capabilities were used. Because of the PV of 40, only critical hits could deal any damage. All critical hits *did* deal damage, and the observed values fit a nice pattern: They all consisted of some of the possible values for blessed arrows mentioned above, multiplied by 2, 3, 4 or 5. Possible values in detail: x2: 50, 54, 56, 60, 62, 66 x3: 75, 81, 84, 90, 93, 99 x4: 100, 108, 112, 120, 124, 132 x5: 125, 135, 140, 150, 155, 165 Observed values: x2: 50, 56, 60, 60, 62, 62, 62, 62, 62, 66 x3: 75, 75, 81, 81, 84, 84, 84, 84, 84, 90, 90, 93, 93, 93, 99, 99 x4: 100, 100, 100, 108, 112, 112, 112, 112, 120, 132, 132 x5: 125, 125, 125, 135, 135, 140, 140, 140, 140, 150, 150, 155, 165 Experiment 3B: demon slaying ============================ Same as 3A, except the blessed arrows were arrows of demon slaying. In this case, all hits were critical (resulted in the "exactly hit" message). The only difference to the data observed above was that the multipliers 3, 4, 5, 6 were observed rather than 2, 3, 4, 5. This lead to one problem in reporting the results: The value 150 can either be interpreted as 30*5 or as 25*6. I have split the various occurrences of 150 between those two groups in a random fashion. All following experiments are minor variations of this. Observed values: x3: 75, 75, 81, 81, 81, 84, 90, 93, 93 x4: 100, 108, 108, 108, 108, 112, 112, 120, 120, 124, 132, 132, 132 x5: 125, 135, 140, 140, 140, 150, 150, 150, 155, 155, 155, 155, 165, 165, 165, 165 x6: 150, 150, 162, 162, 162, 168, 198, 186, 186, 186, 186, 162 Experiment 3C: uncursed bow =========================== Same as 3B, but with an uncursed bow. The multiplier x6 was somewhat rarer, but this is not statistically convincing. If blessing the bow helps, it doesn't help a lot. Observed values: x3: 75, 75, 75, 75, 75, 75, 75, 81, 84, 84, 84, 90, 93, 93, 93, 99, 99 x4: 100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 108, 108, 108, 112, 120, 124, 132, 132 x5: 125, 125, 135, 135, 135, 140, 140, 145, 150, 150, 155, 165, 165, 165 x6: 150, 150, 180, 186, 186, 198 Experiment 3D: humanoid slaying =============================== Same as 3B, but with humanoid slaying arrows instead of demon slaying arrows. No qualitative differences in the observations. Observed values: x3: 81, 81, 81, 84, 90, 90, 93, 93, 93 x4: 100, 108, 108, 124, 124, 124, 132, 132, 132, 132 x5: 125, 125, 135, 135, 140, 140, 140, 150, 150, 150, 155, 160, 165, 165 x6: 150, 150, 150, 162, 162, 162, 168, 168, 180, 180, 180, 180, 186, 186, 198, 198, 198 Experiment 3E: uncursed arrows ============================== Same as 3B, but the arrows were uncursed. The hypothesis was that the same multipliers (x3...x6) would apply, but without the +50% modification for fighting demons with blessed weapons. The observations supported the hypothesis. Observed values: x3: 51, 51, 54, 54, 60, 60, 63, 63, 63, 66, 66 x4: 72, 72, 76, 76, 80, 84, 84, 84, 84, 88, 88, 88 x5: 85, 90, 95, 95, 95, 95, 100, 100, 100, 105, 105, 105, 105, 105, 110, 110, 110 x6: 102, 102, 102, 102, 114, 120, 126, 126, 132, 132 Experiment 3F: without Find Weakness ==================================== Same as 3B, but without the Find Weakness skill. This was done to check whether critical hits from slaying weapons and critical hits from the Find Weakness skill are cumulative in some way or other (e.g., the x6 multiplier might only happen on successful Find Weakness skill checks). This was a smaller experiment because it was quickly seen that there seems to be no influence of the Find Weakness skill for slayingarrows. Observed values: x3: 90, 93, 99 x4: 108, 120 x5: 125, 125, 135, 135, 150, 155, 155, 155, 160, 165 x6: 180, 180, 198, 198, 198 Interpretation of the missile experiments: Missile damage seems to be calculated as follows: base_damage = roll dice reported by "M" if fighting demons or undead and projectile is blessed: Multiply base_damage by 1.5, rounding down. if the projectile has an appropriate slaying property: Multiply base_damage by 3, 4, 5, or 6 (choose randomly). else if the PC manages to score a random critical hit: Multiply base_damage by 2, 3, 4, or 5 (choose randomly). if base_damage > PV: Opponent loses (base_damage - PV) hit points Some of this hasn't been explored very deeply. For example, dragon slaying ammunition might behave differently to demon slaying ammunition. Still, this is better than no information. Malte Reply to author Forward [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/17/2009 at 18:34 (GMT -5) by Sylph] |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3183 days, 19 hours, 30 minutes and 6 seconds ago. |
I don't have the numbers to post here, but I could try at a later time (healers start with a stethescope?). Melee weapons may work differently than arrows. I no longer have any non-vista computer since my last one died, so it's not easy for me to do so any time soon. I haven't been able to play adom for a few months now. If you can try this out yourself, please do so. I'd suggest doing a raven healer to get a stethescope and a 16th level trident. Keep a low strength as much as you can and still get to 16th level. In my experience, even the weakest characters were able to hurt 100+pv gms with demon slaying weapons. I guess that means that every chance of getting a critical (which I believe is 5% base, 20% for find weakness 100, and + up to 25% for +crit items) is not additive. Might be worth trying wielding two bloody daggers instead of the axe for an increased chance. It may be additive. Keep in mind that not all equipment modifiers are equal just as not all weapon modifiers are equal. ie. If bracers and kitty ring give +10%, fate smiles gives +2%, lucky +1%, ankh +5%, you won't reach 100%. These numbers are just drawn from thin air - I didn't test detailed enough to get actual percentages for each item. I also have never seen the platinum girdle, and so I don't know if that last piece would be enough to get 100%. I did test enough to see a difference in various items though and see that not all are equal. I found a murderous dagger very early, and got emerald dagger as a pre-crown iirc. Used emerald/murderous for a long time in the game, but did eventually find multiple bloody daggers. Even 2 bloody daggers did not crit as often as the emperor axe though. The second crit weapon may also not add anything to the crit chance? I didn't think to check and look for a difference. I pretty much just used 2 +crit daggers for most of the game, except a few places where I switched to a slaying weapon, and the very late game where I switched to needle/sting. I tested with 1 2h +crit weapon, 1 2h slaying weapon, 2 +crit weapons, and 2 non-crit weapons. I never tried 1 +crit weapon and 1 non-crit weapon together so I don't know if that is different from 2 +crit weapons together. |
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Twinge Registered user Communist in Disguise Last page view: 5200 days, 13 hours, 3 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
1) If a melee attack slays, it cannot crit on top of that; slaying is considered a critical hit, essentially. I am pretty confident slaying does not bypass PV. 2) It's interesting that AshenPlanet notes that different weapons give a different crit rate since I'd never heard this before elsewhere -- this does appear to be true. +Crit Equipment has a special hidden CritValue number that is possibly unique to each +Crit item. 3) High strength and good luck give you higher chances to crit as well. Murderous weapons are not like any other normal crit bonus; they kind of double your base odds (which maybe(?) starts at 1/20 and goes up with higher strength and good luck, and down with bad luck or low strength; assuming this is how it works, enough strength and luck can bring this to at most 20% (1/5), or 50% (1/2 -- 5 divided in half and then truncated) with murderous). The 1/20 figure makes sense and jives with Slyph's tests, as does the 20% for Find Weakness (Skill / 500). However... 4) Find Weakness definitely does not stack additively with +Crit equipment, only multiplicatively. +Crit equipment may stack additively together with other +Crit stuff though, not sure on this yet. |
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Soirana Registered user Chaos Freak Last page view: 4155 days, 11 hours, 23 minutes and 15 seconds ago. |
to sylph: nice quote, but that is missile crits. Same group had Malte poston melle criticals, which actually work different way [2x that is, 3x with blessed weapon tricks]. to Ashen: yes 5% general rate seems to be a case. Find weakness, IMHO, depends on weapon. I've run test of dagger vs ultra heavy one [same char same paralyzed GM] and it looks like weight matters [not sure if type matters on top like using sword and staff of same weight]. Personally i'd say 20-25 from skill. Not sure if two weapons works better, in theory each should give bonus to itself only. Although i would not exrule some of these work in missile slot actually. twinge: nice numbers:) Messing up with code? Overall: Things i am sure about -- chars crits does not pass PV. Mobs... well, bunch of them, has ignore PV feature and these hits, IIRC, give close message to criticals by mobs. Salying+crit does not stack damage wise. If you hit crit it is crit end of story. Although working with slaying weapon trains find weakness skill. [going with skullcrusher through greater vaul of giants gives a lot.] If you go for max luck you need max Mana as it starts giving [not alweays] luck if >40. I've seen arround 75-80% hit ration on test char. IIRC, it had room to improve. A root is a flower that disdains fame. Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931) |
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Sylph Registered user Last page view: 5305 days, 13 hours, 22 minutes and 1 second ago. |
Cheers for the further info on crits folks. Seems to me that find weakness is every bit as powerful as it's made out to be... Soirana - the only other info I saw from malte on RGRA was about purifier with a non-paladin, which of course is bad info (since purifier slaying doesn't seem to work with non-paladins) - have you seen another post with different info? |
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Twinge Registered user Communist in Disguise Last page view: 5200 days, 13 hours, 3 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
"Twinge: nice numbers:) Messing up with code? " Aye. I haven't been around much lately, but occasionally I'll still poke around for interesting bits... "Find weakness, IMHO, depends on weapon. I've run test of dagger vs ultra heavy one [same char same paralyzed GM] and it looks like weight matters" As far as I can tell, weight should not matter with Find Weakness whatsoever. "If you go for max luck you need max Mana as it starts giving [not alweays] luck if >40." While it is more likely Mana will boost your luck the higher it is, it is reasonably linear; you're comparing your Mana to a d100 roll to see if it gives you +1-4 luck (depending on die roll, higher roll with every 10 Mana). If you proc the roll, this is about the same as intrinsic +Luck for comparison (depending on where your Mana is at). For the purposes of critical hits, though, it's not really that hard to max out luck to the point it has no further effect, even without Mana coming into play... Looks like Find Weakness is /1000 instead of /500 for Missile weapons. It appears that Perception is also supposed to factor in (like Strength does for Melee) but it actually doesn't -- And the Melee Strength bonus is also inactive. Looks like in both cases they're calculated and then set to 0. It also appears to work with Kick the same it does with other Melee, hehe. If I feel like it at some point (no guarantee this will ever happen), I'll run some in-game tests to verify further. I'd also be interested in seeing the 'odds to crit' data that Ashen has tested in the past, if anyone has a link handy. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/22/2009 at 20:18 (GMT -5) by Twinge] |
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Twinge Registered user Communist in Disguise Last page view: 5200 days, 13 hours, 3 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
"the only other info I saw from malte on RGRA was about purifier with a non-paladin, which of course is bad info (since purifier slaying doesn't seem to work with non-paladins) - have you seen another post with different info? " Interesting that you'd mention this. I assume you mean Holy Avenger rather than Purifier. When I was looking at the crit chances the other day, I noticed a bit that implied Holy Avenger does HALF the given damage for non-Paladins (and double the given damage for Paladins, as we already know). I saw nothing to indicate that it doesn't slay, but if it's dealing half it might look that way. Needs to be tested. |
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Soirana Registered user Chaos Freak Last page view: 4155 days, 11 hours, 23 minutes and 15 seconds ago. |
Nothing i could found out quickly. IIRC, melee crit is simply 2x, 3x if multiplied by 1.5 due to blessed status. That was quated as Malte's work although i can't find original source. In theory: 3x barb spec attack 2xcrit 2xstab 1.5 blessed against demon/undead makes for 18x multiplier. iirc, maltes test was with justifier actually. A root is a flower that disdains fame. Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931) |
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Twinge Registered user Communist in Disguise Last page view: 5200 days, 13 hours, 3 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
Okay, tested: Holy Avenger does indeed deal only half damage for non-Paladins, but it does still appear to slay things. Specific example: Ranger wielding Holy Avenger with a given damage total of 3d5+17 attacks and Ogre with 5PV and 20HP. The Ogre is left with 11HP after 1 hit, meaning only 11+5 damage was dealt: less than possible if the given damage is true, but right about expected if it's halved. A normal Long Sword was dealing almost as much damage on average, showing that the given amount is correct normally. There's no reason Purifier should be any different than anything else damage-wise, so I'd assume that one is normal, but I could probably test it easily enough if desired. For Melee it should be *1d4+1 if Crit, or *1d4+2 if Slaying. Max Multiplier I can think of: Tremendous Blow with a Blessed slaying weapon in a Silent Room. Base*3*10*1.5*3to6. Turning 10 damage into ~2025 damage is pretty sweet ;) Related interesting tidbit: Phase Dagger timing is different than other penetration weapons. With the way it works, you could actually deal 0 damage to a Greater Moloch when using a cursed Phase Dagger for example -- but usually this means Phase Daggers are better, e.g. if it's blessed you're essentially dealing 50 bonus damage compared to another penetrating weapon... [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/22/2009 at 20:47 (GMT -5) by Twinge] |
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Twinge Registered user Communist in Disguise Last page view: 5200 days, 13 hours, 3 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
Update: Doing some testing and looking at it more, it looks like melee crits and slaying are probably both merely *2. Oddly it sets the value to be a 2-6 multiplier, but then ends up just setting the number to a flat *2 in a weird way. So that 10 damage above only turns into 900, aww. |
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Soirana Registered user Chaos Freak Last page view: 4155 days, 11 hours, 23 minutes and 15 seconds ago. |
yes in game testting [for example me whacking some paralyzed mobs with 1d4 dagger] have confirmed this ages ago. [i had read that 'weird way' appeared only in 1.1.1 so some guys cry for melee being severely nerfed] Oddly i thought that room effect applies to monsters only. A root is a flower that disdains fame. Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931) [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/25/2009 at 09:04 (GMT -5) by Soirana] |
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Twinge Registered user Communist in Disguise Last page view: 5200 days, 13 hours, 3 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
Yeah, I've loosely been away from the general community for roughly 4 years, I think. There's been more than one occasion recently where I think I've discovered some cool new thing only to later find out my new discovery had been common knowledge for some time! (Or even worse, my discovery was not only already known, but also had wrong information ;/) Oh well, mixed in with the already known are usually some nice new tidbits of knowledge. Heck, even a few things that can be found in the blasted game manual have been brand new discoveries to me lately. 'Tis perhaps a bit humbling; as much as I have deciphered and learned about ADOM over the years, there is still always more to uncover - both in the game itself and from other players. I don't know if people have just been learning and utilizing a bunch of new tricks recently or if I just somehow missed a lot of this stuff from long ago (most likely some of both), but it sure feels like I know much less about ADOM than I used to ;) |
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Soirana Registered user Chaos Freak Last page view: 4155 days, 11 hours, 23 minutes and 15 seconds ago. |
Server and online discussion on guys playing there improved general knowledge a lot. Especially in trick department. A root is a flower that disdains fame. Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931) |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3183 days, 19 hours, 30 minutes and 6 seconds ago. |
To Soiriana: It's been that way a lot longer than 1.1.1, as long back as gamma 8 at least. I remember, somewhere around that time, a good player posted a challenge game he was attempting - to play a halfling monk using nothing but rocks (with the auto-pickup set to rocks only), you couldn't use any equipment, and you couldn't purchase anything, you couln't pick up anything at all except rocks and the orbs - you had to eat stuff off the ground only. He made it through the mana temple before turning into a chaos beast (he was never in danger of dying) - he even posted a video of it. I tried that challenge, finished the game, and posted the results. That's how much more powerful missiles are. I've done a melee only game, and a spells only game (yes, you can kill everything including aNdOr with just spells), and along with being much much harder, I don't think either is even possible with the additional naked/no equipment restrictions - missiles are just that good, have been for a long time. The addition of ego items and spell effectivity helped close the gap, but missiles still work differently from melee, and have been different for a long time. To Twinge: another way penetrating weapons are different from phase is that penetrating weapons don't penetrate when thrown - put penetrating daggers in your missile slot and throw them, the penetration property doesn't kick in. I didn't know mana affected your luck. How does it factor in? Iirc, each source of luck gave something like +1 to many rolls, each source of fate smiles gave something like +2 to many rolls, and the ankh gave an additional +2 to all rolls on top of the +3 to many rolls that the lucky and fate smiles provide. At what points > 40 does mana affect your rolls, and is it a constant effect like +1 per 10 points over 40 or something like that? I'd never read anything about mana affecting your luck bonus before. |
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Twinge Registered user Communist in Disguise Last page view: 5200 days, 13 hours, 3 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
The game is unbalanced in several ways, yeah. I used to just dream of a 1.2.0 bugfix version; now I also dream of the 1.2.1 balance-tweak version that comes after the bugfix update =O Nerfing shields, boosting dual-wielding, buffing staffs, re-balancing talents, weakening missile attacks a bit, tweaking a few drop rates and danger levels, metallurgy given some useful effect, ability to wish for Alertness, etc. etc. And hell, beyond that is where the *real* fun begins, and I could really work some magic if I was allowed. That's where I'd have to avoid giving info about new additions; I absolutely love the really tiny, subtle, neat effects and I'd be good at adding even more to the game ;) I am still looking forward to the theoretical half-open ADOM, where a small crew has access to the source and works to fix bugs and tweak balance; seems like a good compromise between opening it completely which TB is still afraid to do and keeping it closed entirely, which would probably mean nothing gets fixed. Anyway. Mana affecting luck is a constant theme in the game -- you get an extra talent for having more Mana, it can help you secretly dodge traps, etc. etc. I'd be kind of surprised if it's not mentioned in the game manual somewhere actually. As for directly affecting your luck roll, it's random. For a general luck check (*Some effects specifically test if you're Doomed, for example, rather than do a general luck roll), you basically roll your Mana / 100 to see if you get a luck bonus; if so, then you'll get between +2 and +4, with odds of it being more going up the higher your Mana is. And for comparison, it's +2 for every extra 'lucky', +4 for extra 'fate smiles', and +2 for the bonus Ankh luck. You also get a bonus on your Birthday and if you're Blessed. |
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Twinge Registered user Communist in Disguise Last page view: 5200 days, 13 hours, 3 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
And another update with some in-game testing: Do the Bracers of War or the Ring of the Cat Lord actually help crits AT ALL? I propose that they do not. Tested with and without BoW equipped, with a normal weapon and with a +crit weapon, and the results were the same with or without the BoW. (I am loosely thinking if I wield the BoW as a weapon it might give a crit bonus, but uh, that's horrible so I haven't tested it yet :P) And actually, this confuses me even more, because Improved luck should improve Crit chances too... most curious... [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/30/2009 at 23:46 (GMT -5) by Twinge] |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4245 days, 6 hours, 6 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
I must inquire, are you using a naturally generated bracers of war, or are you using illicit means to put the artifact on your test char? From what I've heard long ago the likes of ADOMBotting in artifacts doesn't always work too well - not all the artifact properties will pull through for some reason. Artifacts are best generated naturally in the game, whilst other items are best gotten from a wand of wishing to preserve some semblance of in-game testing. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Soirana Registered user Chaos Freak Last page view: 4155 days, 11 hours, 23 minutes and 15 seconds ago. |
boting artifacts is rather complicated thing... Untill you put new char to lv50 and put unreasanobly high piety... i have natural test char with stuff and will test tomorrow. A root is a flower that disdains fame. Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931) |
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Twinge Registered user Communist in Disguise Last page view: 5200 days, 13 hours, 3 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
In every case where I suspect it would matter I use naturally generated. So if I just need some small stat boosts I can directly create some Potions of Mana or whatever, but if I'm testing out an artifact or other special effect I'll wish for it or find another way of naturally creating it. This is why I was not able to test the Cat's Ring; I can't get that from crowning =) Good thing to question, though - that would've definitely made it an invalid test. The properties of items won't make it through properly because any item can have any item property. Even though in a real game there is only one Bracers of War, the game is set up so that you have a specific [+8, +4] Bracers of War with specific flags and abilities rather than any generic "Bracers of War". This gives good flexibility in the engine for item creation, but of course makes hacked items questionable since none of these extra properties will not be applied unless you specifically apply them also. |
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Soirana Registered user Chaos Freak Last page view: 4155 days, 11 hours, 23 minutes and 15 seconds ago. |
> cat ring 1 create char 2 mark perm invis 3. change upstairs into downstairs 4. repeat 3. until d36 5. mark tp contol +all spells 6. gain ring 7. test 8+ post results:) A root is a flower that disdains fame. Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931) |