Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / General / My take on religion
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Tekki Registered user Last page view: 7347 days, 9 hours, 50 minutes and 1 second ago. |
Muslims do not pray to the same god as us...if you would read up on Islam you will see their concept is much different from ours. I don't believe that is Iridia's point...I believe she is simply trying to not be a unitarian type of person in which it's your individual perception of what you call "god" that matters. It's a more humanistic approach and I think she's trying to avoid that. You feel a surge of power. Suddenly your extraordinary carrying capacity fails you. You are crushed by the tons of luggage you are carrying. You die... Go here when you are on the forum to chat about Adom! http://koti.mbnet.fi/adrakon/chat.shtml |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 6 hours, 58 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
Well the culture and emphasis may be different between Christians, Muslims and Jews, but they DO all derive from the same source... I'm no theologist(sp?), but as I understand it Christianity is basicaly a revised version of the Jewish religion, while Islam is a "re-write" based on largely the same sources but without the Jewish cultural influence and "baggage" (they use most of the same major prophets (counting Jesus among the prophets rather than as the Messaiah), and share some of the "storries" like Noah's flood). There is a lot of "original" metherial too naturaly, but there are a quite a bit of overlapping too (esiecialy the oldest parts). Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3759 days, 48 minutes and 47 seconds ago. |
Yeah, Tekki, I'm one of those weirdos who believes that: 1. Absolute truth exists 2. The Bible is a source of absolute truth Don't worry, I'm used to people raising eyebrows at that. It's not popular in today's society; we've just finished dealing with all sorts of prejudice and people don't want to slip back into it, even when it comes to religion. It's a frighteningly small step from saying "I'm right" to "You're wrong" to "You have no right to believe what you believe"--people in general don't want that sort of intolerance to return any more than you and I do. And, frankly, I don't blame people for saying everybody's equally right; it might be logically impossible but it prevents a lot of conflict. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Tekki Registered user Last page view: 7347 days, 9 hours, 50 minutes and 1 second ago. |
I love this line: "There is no absolute truth" <---absolute hehe You feel a surge of power. Suddenly your extraordinary carrying capacity fails you. You are crushed by the tons of luggage you are carrying. You die... Go here when you are on the forum to chat about Adom! http://koti.mbnet.fi/adrakon/chat.shtml |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 10 hours, 26 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Tekki: What do you think is the muslim concept of God? How does it differ from your concept of God? BTW, your line is easily corrected: "The only absolute truth is that there is no other absolute truth." |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 10 hours, 26 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Iridia: Re: Absolute Truth I don't raise my eyebrows at the idea that there is an absolute Truth. I raise my eyebrows at the idea that somebody on earth knows what it is. Do you think you know the absolute Truth? As for the Bible, even if it does contain the concepts/meaning/spirit of absolute Truth, truth remains, functionally, relative. This is because people have to interpret those concepts/meanings/spirit. The very act of interpreting brings a person's own judgment into play. His or her judgment would have to be perfect. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 10 hours, 26 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Jan: It comes down to Faith. Followers of the religions believe they are similar because they were inspired/taught by the same source: God. For the heretic, however, ( ;-P ) Christianity certainly started among the Jews. Jesus was Jewish before he became Christian. I believe that Islam grew out of a tradition separate from Judaism, possibly tracing itself back to Abraham. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/24/2002 at 16:20 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7314 days, 10 hours, 9 minutes and 52 seconds ago. |
My belief in God is somewhat different from most others. I belief it is naive speculation to say if God exists or not, we don't percieve God by any of our five senses and we only go on what people have told us and from books which for all we know could of been made up by anyone. What some people say is that you feel your connection with God within. So would that mean if you had no previous knowledge of Gods existance would you suddenly one day discover such a concept out of just being alive? I'm not sure if God exists but I don't doubt the possibility, it's clear that there are concepts and powers of reality we don't understand yet and some we may never even become aware of but I feel that the most important thing about religion, weather it's reality or fiction, is the effect on people. Religion has clearly made a lot of destruction in the past and is still taking human lives now. Would true religion really cause so much pain and suffering? LS |
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Iridia. Unregistered user |
Religion doesn't cause pain and suffering. People cause pain and suffering. I mean... sure, there are the Crusades, or Muslim jihad wars, or whatever, and they caused pain and suffering... but then there are also Tiennanmen Square, Siberian labor camps, and the Holocaust, none of which were "caused" by religion; in fact, the first two happened in Communist countries in which religion was practically outlawed. I don't think religion or the lack of it causes any sort of tragedy; I think these things happen because all people are imperfect and some people are just plain sick. Religion has been used as an excuse more times than you can count, but then again, so have nationalism, the "right" to own slaves, or the idealism of the early socialist/communist movements. Problem: People are basically evil. When you leave them alone, they do bad things. |
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Tekki Registered user Last page view: 7347 days, 9 hours, 50 minutes and 1 second ago. |
"The only absolute truth is that there is no other absolute truth." That is also untrue...because the fact that the only absolute truth is there is no absolute truth is an absolute truth. whew! You feel a surge of power. Suddenly your extraordinary carrying capacity fails you. You are crushed by the tons of luggage you are carrying. You die... Go here when you are on the forum to chat about Adom! http://koti.mbnet.fi/adrakon/chat.shtml |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3759 days, 48 minutes and 47 seconds ago. |
This could get complicated fast... :) IMHO the only logical solution is that absolute truth exists... whether or not one person or another has discovered it is a whole other issue! Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Lazy Cal Unregistered user |
I said: ". . . there is no other absolute truth." The word "other" allows for one absolute truth -- The sentence itself. |
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Lazy Cal Unregistered user |
BTW, What do you think the Muslim concept of God is? |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7314 days, 10 hours, 9 minutes and 52 seconds ago. |
What defines an absolute truth? LS |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 10 hours, 26 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
I believe God defines it. Some people believe they can define it themselves. Other people don't believe that it can be defined -- that it doesn't exist. |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7314 days, 10 hours, 9 minutes and 52 seconds ago. |
One absolute truth that cannot be argued against is: "Some form of existance is taking place right now" What's God got to do with it though? Humans define a religion based upon belief and faith which defines the Gods, but the Gods don't then define aspects of human definition. LS |
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 Damon Registered user Last page view: 7738 days, 21 hours, 47 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Depends what you define as existance Luke. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 10 hours, 26 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Luke: Your belief is that Humans define religion. I infer you mean that they define God and Truths. If this were so, I would agree that God has little to do with it. However, I do not think this is so. BMB, God is what God is. Human belief and choice have very little to do with this. I also believe God defines absolute Truths. Humans can choose to deny (or concede) such Truths and live their lives accordingly, but that does not change whether something is True or not. [Edited 2 times, last edit on 10/29/2002 at 19:56 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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feilos Unregistered user |
Hey Luke, you can't argue pass these people who can't see our point of view. Some people can't enlarge their own paradigm of thinking to include ungodly people, or heterics...)different minded people) We accept religion as a spiritual sector in our lives, nothing more...You can't make religion anything else more than that. You can help the poor, help the community, with your religion etc...but some people live with a lot of religious fervor and don't LIKE their faith put up on scutiny. Basically they will defend everthing that's taints their sugar-coated, fun-loving idea of their religion. As for absolute truth...all believers when they mean truths, they mean spiritually truth. Kinda like how Buddhaism and other reiligions claim to be find absolute truth. I agree with the fact someone said that truth is relative, like long and short....it's all up to what the individual preceives..... for example: sometime stupid might be just funny to a few, while embrassing to others. Life changes and so do the beliefs and ideas about man and humanity. "A wise person changes his heart, a fool never will." -because he's so stuck up with his ideas that must be right, cuz he can think! |
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feilos Unregistered user |
RE:Iridia:Communist countries in which religion was practically outlawed. Do you know why communism outlaws religion? Do you know why Communist don't like capitialism? Countries like Russia and China have a long history of peasants suffering and starving under the rule of rich people (always seems to be in the millions), that's why, they overthrew the czars and generals that held it's reigh. As for the holocaust, the Nazis blamed the Jews for Christ's death etc...as far as the schools and books are teaching. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 10 hours, 26 minutes and 18 seconds ago. |
Feilos: The problem with claiming somebody else is too close minded to see your point of view is that that person will simply infer that you are too close minded to see their point of view. It is a statement that closes down the discussion because there is no real rebuttal. If you try to stop debate and discussion, isn't that an attempt to avoid understand what the other person thinks. Wouldn't that be a form of close mindedness? I admit that I don't understand your point of view if it goes beyond raging against spiritual beliefs out of frustration. Still, this is because you have never really explained what your point of view is. P.S. Jan: I hope you realize I was joking with the "heretic" commen (hence the smiley) P.P.S. Feilos: What happenned to 20 lines or less? [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/29/2002 at 20:11 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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feilos Unregistered user |
If muslims, jews and christians aren't worshipping one god then I don't know why Abraham is in all their books! Or why they get together for these inter-faith, trans-faith conferences,...obviously Islam, and Christainity are just faiths that stem off from Judaism. Religions should not hate, alienate, judge each other, but look at how similar they are and what their goals are and how they help people. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 10 hours, 26 minutes and 18 seconds ago. |
Feilos: Re: Nazis I'm afraid that you do not have your history correct. The Nazis believed that Jews (and gypsies and homosexuals, etc) were inferior. Hitler (and others) claimed that the Jews (and other categories of peoples) weakened the Reich. He did not talk about them as Christ Killers. I think you are confusing the teaching of the Nazis with old (recanted) teachings of the Catholics. |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 6 hours, 58 minutes and 27 seconds ago. |
Actualy they did use terms like "Christ killers" too, but it was hardly theyr main point... Hitlers Reich never realy had any religious founding, but it was proably a convenient way to help convice christians that the Jews deserved what they got.. It was never the reason of the holocost though, just yet another convenient name to throw around to show just how horrible the Jews where. If all else failed they could always go "they even killed Christ, the bastards"... Some people responded better to stuff like that than the whole race hygene stuff... Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 10 hours, 26 minutes and 18 seconds ago. |
Jan: Re: Nazis Are you sure? I don't recall ever running across that; albeit, I read Mein Kampf a long time ago. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/31/2002 at 19:47 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3759 days, 48 minutes and 48 seconds ago. |
It wasn't in the "official" party doctrine. At the time, Jews were very unpopular anyway; "Christ killers" was a popular epithet for Jews (a little like--excuse me--"nigger" for American blacks). When the Nazi party came to power the Germans, who didn't like Jews anyway, called them that as part of the overall hatred of Jews that was stirred up at Nazi rallies, etc. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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feilos Unregistered user |
Caladriel: I do agree with you on about what you say. And I'm sorry if I'm not a college teacher or lecturer that shower you with westernized, politically correct termology or spelling. I do agree with you on some points. That's why I post my messeage. I just don't like how you and others change topics so fast and how other people don't get my ideas. Like for instances my idea about Hilter and Jews are on par with Jan, and you don't see his point. |
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feilos Unregistered user |
as for the 20 lines of more...I find other people not respecting the rules too. So why should I? I mean that rule did came right after my long long confusing post. Anyway I'll keep that as a note for my next post... |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 6 hours, 58 minutes and 27 seconds ago. |
There is no RULE about keeping to less than 20 lines... It just help seeng as most people won't bother reading a message that's too long... I can be very good at writing short meaningfull essays (I usualy found myself way below the "target" word count for most school asignments), but it requre me to read though and edit it a few dozen times, and so I tend to write realy long messages when I want to make a point on message boards because I rarely take the time to edit them sufficiently to clairfy a point, so I just go on and on and on... Sort of like I'm doing now... Trying to keep within 20 lines force you to think twise and clairfy our point better too... Makes things easier for everyone (though it take more time to write)... Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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