Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / Spoilers / Dual wielding upgrade
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Nightmare Registered user Soul Calibur 2 Last page view: 4809 days, 19 hours, 49 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
I've read a number of people saying that dual wielding anything other than Needle + Sting is a bad idea, and that it's safer to go weapon + shield and more efficient to wield a 2handed weapon. So my question is, what would have to be changed about dual wielding to make it viable? I had some ideas, feel free to add yours: Faster attacks (ie lower energy costs) More than two attacks in a row Special dual wielding talents and skills Weapon parrying! x% chance for each weapon Suffixes & prefixes that benefit dual wielding Item sets or "extra-compatable-weapon-pairing" like Needle + Sting that give bonuses if you have multiple set pieces ***Anyway, I bring this up because I hear so much negativity for dual wielding, even when people talk about rangers. The way they talk, it makes it sound like it's a broken skill. This bothers me, because I think it's a lot of fun and very cool to DW. It's a very viable option in other games, I think it should be in this one too. I look forward to reading other peoples thoughts and opinions (as always). "As for me, I feel priveleged to be among the only species able to make scientific inquiries." -unknown "Be sure to keep your distance if you don't have resistance." -DG |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 44 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
I don't think it should be that viable an option - it's very unrealistic, and obviously a poor choice for defence. It can be powerful, and overall can be faster than 2 attacks, but the simple problem is that other monsters will often get two moves to your one. Even though you're doing more damage per round you're not getting in as many actions, leaving you with less chances to heal etc. The best way of countering this is to have your DV boosted through other means (eg heavily smithed items) so that you're less likely to need extra moves. I must say I'm quite distasteful of games that let you become a dual-wielding super-powered character. There shouldn't be bonus points just because something's "cool". If you want to be "cool" in a ASCII game then you have to accept there's certain penalties for it. The penalties in the game aren't that drastic, it's just that ADOM is such a difficult high risk game that you don't want to take any chances. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Prohna Unregistered user |
if it was meant to be that realistic would we be fighting orcs and goblins? shooting magicbolts? i dont think dw should be super powered but it does seem that its broken now. everyone always says polearm + shield. there should be more options. |
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Nightmare Registered user Soul Calibur 2 Last page view: 4809 days, 19 hours, 49 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
I know there are martial arts styles that involve dual wielding swords or clubs or whatnot. IRL, it's a matter of having your left arm strong enough and getting coordinated. I'd be interested to see some sparring/non-lethal duels between real people skilled in using weapon + shield or DWing, one vs the other, and see who wins more often. The RL knock I've heard on DWing, is that it can throw you off balance. I was practicing once, with a friends wooden swords, it was quite difficult actually. Using one sword at a time, one handed was much easier, and I felt most comfortable during a pipe-foam swordfight wielding it like a 2hander. Thing is, if you learn the DW fighting styles, it gives you a lot of options, a lot of offense, a lot of speed. I'd love to hear from a RL weapon master on which style is most effective, and why. Which weapons are most effective, which ones counter others, ect. As far as coolness, I think that's a big part of the fun for a lot of people. Look at a character like Cervantes from the Soul Calibur series. Can you watch him in action and say that's not fricken awesome? "As for me, I feel priveleged to be among the only species able to make scientific inquiries." -unknown "Be sure to keep your distance if you don't have resistance." -DG |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 44 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
Thing about dual wielding in real life is that it's incredibly rare. So it should be in game. It *is* possible to get immensely powerful with it (especially for rangers, who can end up with better to hit when dual wielding than with single weapons), but for an early character it's risky business. The speed problem isn't so bad in the later game either when you become better mastered at your chosen weapon. It thus makes sense that a master with a weapon with a good two weapon combat skill can excel in it, whilst starters will just get themselves killed trying. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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noob Registered user Last page view: 6139 days, 8 hours, 56 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
Fighting and killing with medieval weapons in general is quite rare in real life (at least in my country). Dual wielding is NOT unrealistic since one of the most powerful kung fu styles involves dual short swords for example (really). And 2 swords/daggers/... are better than one - alone for the fact that holding two weapons still allows you to fight single-weapon style. Also you can defend and attack at once. Time-penalty for attacks is probably too severe in adom. Hit / damage penalties for the first attack could be lessened or removed. Also for both weapons could be applied weapon-proficiency-bonuses cumulutative (to cover deflecting advantage for example). |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5352 days, 11 hours, 38 minutes and 33 seconds ago. |
There is parrying with two-handed weapons already in the game, sort of... Imagine you have 20 DV from a polearm. A few monster will miss attacks against you because of this 20. So you might as well consider these attacks parried. And your off-hand weapon will give extra DV. At half rate, though. Dual wielding is not bad, as such. It delivers much damage fast. In a hypothetical dual between to PCs, dual wielding might be the way to go. However ADOM is non-save game, death is permanent so survival is the main issue. I care less what happens to the monsters. I can always kill THEM later, but if *I* die the game is over. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 44 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
"I can always kill THEM later" - haha, great quote. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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J. Registered user You'll never get rid of me Last page view: 5875 days, 38 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
Stop all the talk about realism and reality. Really, stop. Wizards are pretty fucking rare IRL but they seem to be one of the most played chars in ADOM. This is a fantasy game. In this fantasy world of adom dual-wielding should somehow be less sucky than it is, because now it isn't a viable alternative unless you have needle+sting. Maybe make it a little bit faster by increasing the effect of the two-weapon combat skill? Not too much, so it doesn't become overpowered, but just make it so once in a while somebody could use it without limiting their characters potential too much. Hey, I just got another idea! How about something like this: When fighting with two-weapons, and using defensive/very defensive/coward tactics, you get an extra DV bonus, something like +DV=weapon skill(so 0-15), but only do one attack with your right-hand weapon, costing the same amount of energy as a normal one-handed attack with that weapon. This would simulate something like totally using the other weapon to block, and only attack with the other weapon, giving some more tactical options when dual-wielding. If you're feeling happy, don't worry, it'll go away. Originally posted by noob: "I'm everytime amazed how you people know to exploit every single little bug (or not-bug) for elaborated scumming tatics even if the feature seems completely useless or bad." [Edited 1 time, last edit on 1/11/2008 at 09:37 (GMT -5) by J.] |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 44 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
I really hate this sort of argument... I mean come on, yeah it's a fantasy game, but it has realistic groundings. It would be ridiculous if, say, you can't hurt dogs with bladed weapons. The melee combat system at least should be realistic. This is a game with realistic features like starvation to limit your character - not being able to dual wield easily is another. Two weapon combat is still a viable alternative in ADOM, it just isn't quite as safe because you can't quaff a potion inbetween sword strokes (plus a second weapon is obviously not as defensive as a shield). In some circumstances I'd still rate it better than a two-handed weapon (depends on the weapons of course). The only possible change I'd say is getting a small DV bonus from the Two Weapon Combat skill, since realistically you'd get better at parrying with two weapons if you're a master at it. (Of course there's a tonne of non-realistic things about the game, like the hoardes you're able to hold in your backpack, and armour that fits everyone, but that's more about not bogging things down with needless details that would simply get in the way of the game.) Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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J. Registered user You'll never get rid of me Last page view: 5875 days, 38 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
I agree sort of, stuff in fantasy worlds really has to make sense in the world they're set in. So the fantasy world has stuff like magic and unrealistic physics and whatnot, but everything that happens in that fantasy world should abide by the rules of the fantasy world. Cars and modern weapons would be unrealistic in ADOM and stuff like that. My point is that dual-wielding should be more fun. Yeah, that's pretty much it. I also agree that dual-wielding is REALLY REALLY difficult in the real world and in most cases not as feasible as withing with a sword&shield. I definately don't want to see dual-wielding in games like Mount&Blade, but in fantasy games I think it should be an alternative. If you're feeling happy, don't worry, it'll go away. Originally posted by noob: "I'm everytime amazed how you people know to exploit every single little bug (or not-bug) for elaborated scumming tatics even if the feature seems completely useless or bad." [Edited 1 time, last edit on 1/11/2008 at 09:43 (GMT -5) by J.] |
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vogonpoet Registered user Last page view: 5167 days, 13 hours, 14 minutes and 54 seconds ago. |
Err, surely needle+sting are plenty encouragement to dual wield later on? |
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Maelstrom Registered user The Knight of the Black Rose Last page view: 3328 days, 1 hour, 13 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
Darren - you saying two-weapon fighting is unrealistic gives me a pretty good idea how well educated you are in the field of european fencing techniques. And that falls somewhere between "I don't know anything" and "I've heard there's something like that". In real life shields were about as rare as dual wielding sabres. And fencing has always been about a sword and a dagger, never about a sword and a shield. You either weild a sword with the other hand empty, for balance and some extra power when needed, or you block with one weapon and counter attack with the other. Shields were rarely used on the battlefields, since they are heavy, and offer little to no acctual protection. Sure Crossbowmen used shields. But no sholdier who fought hand-to-hand used a shield after the Dark Ages. And since we have plate mails in ADOM, it's way past the Dark Ages. A pessimist sees a dark tunnel. An optimist sees a light at the end of that tunnel. A realist sees a train. And the train driver sees three idiots on the tracks. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 1/11/2008 at 10:22 (GMT -5) by Maelstrom] |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4279 days, 6 hours, 26 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
Dual-wielding is good enough for my taste. Extra DV from Two weapon combat wouldn't hurt, though. The real shame is the overpoweredness of the spear+shield combo. You shouldn't get that much DV for a spear you wield in ONE hand! You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 44 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
Maelstrom, you have a decent point about shields being rare after the development of plate armour. In fact, giving it some thought it could very easily be argued that shields are simply way over-powered in the game. 40 DV or higher when well-trained with a good shield is quite an insanely high amount. You're wrong about shields not being used in hand to hand since the dark ages though. Police use riot shields all the time :P And I'll admit, I've never heard of a second weapon being used in fencing. ADOM doesn't have sabres though - its weapon varieties are more reminiscent of the dark ages in fact. (That's one problem with a lot of fantasy games, they just mix in all sorts of weapons and armour from all eras - the tower shields in ADOM being of course very like Roman shields for instance; not the sort of thing any individual combatant would carry about.) Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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noob Registered user Last page view: 6139 days, 8 hours, 56 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
...also quite common: rapier + cloak in off-hand for a shield |
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Nightmare Registered user Soul Calibur 2 Last page view: 4809 days, 19 hours, 49 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
I think the point (no pun intended) about spears and DV is that you hold a monster at a distance with the long reach of the spear, jabbing and thrusting. The fight scene in Jet Lis movie Fearless could give you a good idea how that works. Or look at pictures of a Greek Phalanx. Like in boxing, the fighters "reach" is an advantage. A long weapon like a spear can give you the first strike, as an opponent with a shorter weapon has to close the distance on you before he can swing. Or he'll stay back to stay out of reach. Translating to a big DV bonus in ADOM. As far as shields, yeah, you'd think they'd be unwieldly, these heavy things on your left arm. Surprisingly, they're one of the most durable items in ADOM, aside from wooden shields. "As for me, I feel priveleged to be among the only species able to make scientific inquiries." -unknown "Be sure to keep your distance if you don't have resistance." -DG |
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zv Registered user Last page view: 5871 days, 5 hours, 59 minutes and 31 seconds ago. |
I'd say that dual wielding doesn't need a change, mainly because of these two things: * it is already very very powerful for rangers - and I'm not saying Needle + Sting - try Executor + Skullcrusher and see how it plows through humanoids of all shapes and sizes, while earning tons of points for winning in style ;) * the benefits of spear + shield combo are overrated - you can do well with other weapons too. In fact, I never won with a character using that combo primarily (not for a lack of trying), but I have won the game with dual wielders or characters using skilled in weapon categories deemed weak by most (like staves - Wanderer FTW). |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5352 days, 11 hours, 38 minutes and 33 seconds ago. |
In my view both science fiction and fantasy needs basis in the physics of the real world. Both then make a few crucial adjustments which we just happily accept (it IS fantasy after all). Like Star Wars - we accept the presence of a "force" which can be manipulated by the mind. No problemo. We also accept hyperspace - FTL engines, and powerful laser handguns. But then we can rile on about what does not really make sense. Why doesn't the laser give off a continous beam? At least for half a second or so so you can "aim" it or walk it over the target? Answer is that they were poorly thought out (IMHO) - it is much cooler to have them work like our contemporary firearms. Babylon 5 had more thought behind the physics of space combat, but I still remember hearing sounds. Hyperspace and energy weapons - sure, why not. But physics is physics. Same for fantasy. I've seen a lengthy discussion about Balrogs having wings or not, and if they could fly with them. They would happily discuss how many square meters wing area you would need to lift a 500-kg Balrog, what shape they would be and what his running speed would have to be to actually take off. (I think the conclusion was that they were not actual flying wings). In ADOM we happily accept spellcasting, there is a original chapter in the Manual describing how a spell is learned and cast. Monsters - whats wrong with them? If evolution (or God) had worked a little differently, there is no reason why there can't be kobolds and cavemen (neanderthals I'm thinking) and dragons. I mean, 65 million years ago there stalked a real monster on this very planet. 13 meters tall, weighing over 6 metric tons, a carnivorous and predatory horror. Lets call them ...dragons, mabye. Or Tyrannosaurus. Back to dual wielding. Dual wielding was used in duelling, indeed, usually with a smaller weapon in the secondary hand, used for parrying or quick surprising counterattacks following up on a sword thrust. But do you really duel in ADOM? Against swordmen and ratling duellists, yes, but not against a giant lizard or a dragon. Indeed, against a dragon I might like a big, element-resistant shield to duck behind... Shield usage is also a tricky question. In the ancient era they were extensively used, post dark ages mabye not, but this might be because of the developement of crude firearms (shield won't help) or the nature of modern combat, with massed infantry using long halbards or such. The ADOM universe is in a technological level of advancement certainly pre-gunpowder. Probably around year 0 or earlier. Roman ear, mabye? The arena with the gladius could indicate that... zv: * Rangers only get benefit to the hitroll. The issue is time spent attacking, where Rangers are as poor as anyone else. Two-weapon combat skill and weapon skill are the only factors. It is not much slower to attack twice with one weapon than the dual attack. * Shield + spear combo I see mostly as the spellcaster's friend. DV bonus, while the spells do the killing. There aren't any good one-handed spear artifacts (good as in useful slaying). * Shields are really good in this game. Try to smith a decent one and you will see. Many characters will have talents to spare, and that can make shields even better. * Executor and skullcrusher are very excellent one-handed weapons. Would be great if there was an "animal" slayer weapon - then you could dual wield humanoid and animal slayer and not bother about switching weapons ever again... * I won a game with a dark elven ranger who exclusively used twin scimitars untill he got the needle and the sting, so dual wielding cerainly is winnable. That character had a mayor problem I usually don't have - Greater Molochs. Hit once and move away did not work too well - they would frequently get in a hit after my attack. And that, as we know, hurts. I could not remove one weapon as I was roleplaying a certain dark elf... * I've never used staves, personally. For two-handed weapons I am so boring that I go with halbards or two-handed swords. * The game is not balanced, and the Creator knows this, and we know it, and that is okay. Dual wielding can work, using whips could probably work, gnome merchants can work. It is a way we can challenge ourselves, as there is no otherwise adjustable difficulty level in the game. * I just though up a idea for ADOM 1.2 or 2.1...difficulty level. Normal/Nightmare/Hell. * I think I was just kidding. |
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J. Registered user You'll never get rid of me Last page view: 5875 days, 38 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
You said that human slayer in one hand and an animal slayer in the other would be the best, but that's wrong. Human slayer + shield when fighting humanoids, animal slayer + shield when fighting animals is best. Better DV because of the shield and better damage because every hit is a critical. Also you have more time to drink potions, zap wands and retreat between attacks = improved safety. Executor + skullcrusher is worse than executor + shield, because skullcrusher does less damage than executor, executor gives the same resistances as skullcrusher(and more), and executor is also a demon slayer. They are also quite heavy weapons so you get a to-hit penalty of 5(two-weapon combat skill at 100/20) - 6 (if not a ranger) - (210/10(weight of the weapons) - 6). 5 - 6 - 15 = -16. For comparison, gauntlets of peace give -15 and that's considered bad. The only dual-wielding combo worth using in the game is needle+sting. Please prove me wrong. 10 points and a parrot stamp for whomever does :) If you're feeling happy, don't worry, it'll go away. Originally posted by noob: "I'm everytime amazed how you people know to exploit every single little bug (or not-bug) for elaborated scumming tatics even if the feature seems completely useless or bad." [Edited 1 time, last edit on 1/12/2008 at 08:16 (GMT -5) by J.] |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5352 days, 11 hours, 38 minutes and 33 seconds ago. |
I have won with dual wielding skullcrusher and something else. (Phase dagger I think). So you are proven wrong. I do agree that it is sub-optimal, of course. But for me it was worth it, because I was too lazy to switch out weapons according to the foe I was fighting. Just dual wield the humanoid slayer and the penetrating weapon and anything will die. That character was a true walking Tank on steroids and lightning speed. He was "just" doing a regular ending, so getting hit back was not an issue. Just hold down direction key and watch stuff die. I did not say humanoid slayer + a hypothetical animal slayer was "best". They surely would not be. But it would be Great (fun) to use them. Like, bring it on. Just watch out for those non-humanoid/animal monsters. Ghosts, grues, elementals and probably some more. Dual wielding is cool, but it sucks pretty much sums it up. My post was about playing the game in a sub-optimal way for fun, roleplay, added ddifficulty or whatever. And of course about Balrog wings. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 1/12/2008 at 08:21 (GMT -5) by Molach] |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4279 days, 6 hours, 26 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
Animals are so weak you don't need any sort of animal slayer to waste them. You need a humanoid slayer and a DRAGON slayer, as there are no dragons that are humanoids. Sadly, the only dragon slaying artifacts in the game (as I can recall off the top of my head) are Wyrmlance and Vanquisher, both two-handed weapons. Vanquisher is all you will ever need as a weapon though, regardless of shield issues. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5352 days, 11 hours, 38 minutes and 33 seconds ago. |
I would be tempted to call dragons animals. Big crocodiles with wings. Yeah. I deem that my hypothetical animal slayer slays dragons. (Not going to admit I forgot about dragons in that last post) Wiki: Animals are a major group of multicellular, eukaryotic organisms, of the kingdom Animalia or Metazoa. I suppose that even humanoids are animals. Mabye not golems made from inorganic matter. Ghosts don't have cells, so they wouldn't be. Not too sure about grues. What are they really? [Edited 1 time, last edit on 1/12/2008 at 08:28 (GMT -5) by Molach] |
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zv Registered user Last page view: 5871 days, 5 hours, 59 minutes and 31 seconds ago. |
Oh, I think you underestimate the fact that double strike doesn't allow a counterattack if you can off your opponent in two hits. This is surprisingly often helpful. On the other hand, if you can't finish someone quickly, you do hit quicker when dual wielding. Of course, I won't say that dual wielding > one weapon + shield. Especially a well-smithed one (or Protector). It is not broken though. By the way, Molach, you just tickled my challenge... something ;) -> to roleplay a certain dark elf ranger using scimitars and scimitars only all the way. Finally a character who won't hesitate long before using those djinni rings. What's the chance to get an eternium scimitar of penetration/devastation this way? I also recommend trying out those more exotic weapon categories. Staves are fun, give good DV when well trained and in addition to two artifact ones (one of which is good as a weapon) there are few kinds of special staves, like quicksilver. Recently I am trying to get a whip-using character going, but usually it's not viable until you hit the casino and find a whip of the snake there. Finally, you make a great point about ADOM not being balanced and therefore providing us with various difficulty levels without explicit options to do set them. This system works very well in my opinion, because one can even adjust the difficulty on the fly, for example by deciding whether to get and use smithing or use herbs (or use them excessively ;]) and the game doesn't rob you of your accomplishments if you took on a too hard challenge. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 44 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
Molach: I assume that "Normal" and "Nightmare" difficulties would be easier than the current version? :P One time when taking on Andy I used dual-wielded blessed Executor + Skullcrusher. Just for fun. Did quite a bit of damage actually. Switched to missiles quickly after though, because they're a lot faster (another arguably unbalanced element of the game). Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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noob Registered user Last page view: 6139 days, 8 hours, 56 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
lol Missiles are THE unbalanced advantage of the pc's. Cause aside from Kranach monsters completely suck at it. Just imagine Fisty using Farslayer with humanoid slaying quarrels... [Edited 1 time, last edit on 1/12/2008 at 10:23 (GMT -5) by noob] |
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Maelstrom Registered user The Knight of the Black Rose Last page view: 3328 days, 1 hour, 13 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
Just on a side note Molach - Star Wars does not use lasers. Ever. The "lasers" are called blasters and they fire a a pulse of charged tibanna gas particles. How is that more effective then simply throwing the energy? The same way sounds can be heard in Star Wars space. [Star Wars geek, with access to most SW ilustraded encyclopedias ;P ] Noob - I'll pas on a Crossbow shooting Fisty, I have enough problems with Greater Titans as it is. A pessimist sees a dark tunnel. An optimist sees a light at the end of that tunnel. A realist sees a train. And the train driver sees three idiots on the tracks. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 1/12/2008 at 11:35 (GMT -5) by Maelstrom] |
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Battle bunny Registered user I'm just that cool Last page view: 6038 days, 2 hours, 1 minute and 49 seconds ago. |
Difficulty levels like in Diablo? It would be funny to whack a rat 3 times with Vanquisher to kill it at first, but then... no. Not that way. Maybe a perma-curse/perma-doom-effect-like thing. And there should be no "easier" difficulties, only harder ones - although I acknowledge that you didn't say anything about that, it's just for future reference. (\_/) (o.0) (> <) ( / \ ) Don't click this http://www.mindistortion.net/iwantyoursoul/?i_am=Darkcutter |
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J. Registered user You'll never get rid of me Last page view: 5875 days, 38 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
To Molach: Of course you can win the game dual-wielding :) I'm willing to bet 20€, no not that much, 10€, that Soirana will beat the game with that blind char. But, I'd bet another 10€ that the char will not be dual-wielding, but will use 1-hander+shield instead :P Beating the game is one thing, being sub-optimal is another. I like to think of worst case scenarios and tight spots in the game, and I can't think of one where I'd be better off dual-wielding. As for the cool factor I prefer barbarians with big two-handed weapons to wimpy rangers dual-wielding scimitars. Why do two attacks with phase daggers to a greater moloch and probably get hit back in return when you can kill the thing in one big ass tremendous blow :) If it misses just shrug the puny 300-400 damage off, doesn' matter with 1200+ hp. If you're feeling happy, don't worry, it'll go away. Originally posted by noob: "I'm everytime amazed how you people know to exploit every single little bug (or not-bug) for elaborated scumming tatics even if the feature seems completely useless or bad." |
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Soirana Registered user Chaos Freak Last page view: 4360 days, 11 hours, 1 minute and 1 second ago. |
i think you would lose second part as char is very likely to end using 2hander without shield. A root is a flower that disdains fame. Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931) |
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