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Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / ADOM / stopping save-scumming...

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tipo mastr
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5844 days, 6 hours, 56 minutes and 52 seconds ago.
Posted on Friday, August 22, 2008 at 13:54 (GMT -5)

Can anybody give some tips on playing through without save scumming? I've played for a couple years on and off while savescumming, but i'd like to know how you guys go about accomplishing so much in the game while playing it like it should be played. =P

Thanks in advance!
Silfir
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4279 days, 6 hours, 48 minutes and 10 seconds ago.
Posted on Friday, August 22, 2008 at 15:21 (GMT -5)

Don't die. (duh)

A bit more in detail: Be careful. No, even more careful. Don't do something if you think you might die if you don't have to. There's usually more than enough time to prepare.

Get used to failure. Losing characters to stupid mistakes is the best learning experience out there, since 99% of the time the death could've been avoided if you had been more careful, or tried another strategy.

Strategy! Make sure you make the most of your character's strengths. Use magical wands and potions to your advantage. Learn both a ranged and a melee weapon even if you are a specialist of either, or even a wizard.

Learn to gauge the power of monsters, especially their special abilities, in connection with your character's power. When I won my first game, I had probably encountered almost every monster in the game at least once, and could recognize 99% of them on sight (or at least pin it down in case of an icon that could stand for several monsters). And the most important thing, I always had a pretty good idea how dangerous they were. This is a major helper in the struggle for survival.

Morgia roots. A 12 toughness character has half the HP of a 25 toughness one, and that really makes a difference. There are other ways to seriously pimp your PC, but herbs are the most basic one, even if you don't heavily exploit them they help a lot.
You drop the golden ball.
You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west.
Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?"
Which direction? (123456789) 4
Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated.
You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd!
tipo mastr
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5844 days, 6 hours, 56 minutes and 52 seconds ago.
Posted on Friday, August 22, 2008 at 15:31 (GMT -5)

Is there a guide for me to learn about the herb-growing technique? I recall hearing about it but i dont know exactly how to do it.

EDIT: I've already figured out what you guys mean by excitement, even though my character died at like level 10...I got out of a real sticky situation in the puppy cave. I had the puppy and was engaged in melee combat with an enemy when a fire vortex approached. I took a risk and approached the fire vortex so the puppy wouldnt die...had a real sense of accomplisment. =)

[Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/22/2008 at 16:48 (GMT -5) by tipo mastr]
tipo mastr
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Posted on Friday, August 22, 2008 at 23:29 (GMT -5)

Thanks so much! I'm really hoping I can at least get pretty far in the game without dying. =)
Silfir
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Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 at 04:49 (GMT -5)

Precrowning is a bit of a hassle and not strictly necessary. That said, it usually is worth it. Also I never killed the old barbarian ever. That said, it can be worth it if your character is physically weak (but I generally find getting levels without killing potentially useful NPCs is easy enough).

The point is, don't follow EVERY hint or EVERY piece of wisdom. You have the freedom to play the game as you want to play it, and as long as you don't die, nobody has the right to tell you you're doing it wrong. (Well, technically neither doesn anyone have that right if you do die, but I think you get the point.) If getting precrownings proves to be hella boring, don't do it. If scumming with gremlins is boring, don't do it. If stairscumming in the ID is boring, don't do it. Never feel forced to do inane stuff just because it is the "best way" to play the game. The best way to play ADOM is to have fun doing it.
You drop the golden ball.
You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west.
Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?"
Which direction? (123456789) 4
Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated.
You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd!
Darren Grey
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4450 days, 6 hours and 6 minutes ago.
Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 at 05:56 (GMT -5)

Play a high elven archer. One common mistake of newer player is to rely on melee a lot - playing as an archer both teaches you to use ranged attacks more, and teaches you just how stupendously powerful they are.

Fuck the puppy. Let its dumb little corpse rot away. Seriously, far too many characters die trying to save the puppy, and it's really not worth it. Screw Kranach too. Screw the druid if you're not strong enough to take him down easily. With a lot of weak characters I'll just stick on VD1 and 2 until I'm level 8 or so and feel brave enough to venture forwards. Don't think you should complete everything early on, but it usually means an early death by sticking your neck out too far.

Beware the SMC. Pop in and out at level 1 if you want to come back later to try and get to the HMV. Lots of characters die in here trying to get the blanket. I never get the dumb rag personally - it's stupid to risk your life for something so small! If hunting for the stairs at high level it's best to get invisibility (item/potion/spell), teleportation (scroll/spell/DDL wand) and magic map (preferably blessed scroll) beforehand.

Early on concentrate on PV. Later on get DV as high as possible, preferably by getting a good shield and training it well. As soon as you find a good source of morgia to get your Toughness up to 30 or so you'll be pretty much set for the rest of the game.

Use Tactics well. I mean the F1-F7 settings (though general game tactics are important too). If not directly attacking something always be on Coward. You should be switching settings constantly. If in the midst of battle you need to heal, recover, run, or whatever else, make sure you tap F7 to get into Coward mode. When actually attacking I recommend Very Aggressive or Defensive, depending on how confident you feel about the enemy.

After every death sit and think how it could have been avoided. Learn from your mistakes instead of being frustrated by them.

Good luck anyway - the game becomes a lot more fun and exciting when you give up save-scumming, though it sure ain't an easy path.
Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse."
tipo mastr
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5844 days, 6 hours, 56 minutes and 53 seconds ago.
Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 at 12:03 (GMT -5)

I think im going to make an archer character soon...Right now I have a dwarven priest at level 8 or so. I just finished the puppy quest+cleaning out the puppy cave. This character seems to have some promise, but ill give archers a shot.

edit: no pun intended <_<

[Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/23/2008 at 12:05 (GMT -5) by tipo mastr]
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gut
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5108 days, 8 hours, 22 minutes and 57 seconds ago.
Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 at 15:57 (GMT -5)

> Can anybody give some tips on playing through without save scumming?

Yep! : )


Spoiler

The best thing to do (by far), is to learn the monsters' weaknesses.
With a good knowledge of which attacks and defenses to use against each
monster in the game, you can accomplish such tasks as beating the whole
fire tower with a lowly 99 HP's. So many deaths at the hands of ogre
magi... with a scroll of darkness sitting in ones pack. So many vortex
explosions... with a potion of invis that was never drunk. Almost all
deaths can be avoided, but don't feel bad if you forget something. Here
is a brief list of some simple strategies that I use, and you will of
course develope your own:

Mimics, vortices, eyes - Keep an eye out for purple items and don't
bump into them : ) All are weak against darkness and invis.

Tough humanoids like ogre magi, cavemen, and dopplegangers - Almost
all humanoids are weak against darkness and invis. This is especially
handy against Li-han-kay. Orcs and dark elves can see in the dark,
but not invis.

Griff Yard - Do this as early as you can, and get the reward as
quickly as possible. The blessed potions of extra healing will see
you through some tight spots. You need Dx = ~20, cold resistance, one
potion of holy water, a ring of stun resistance and a reasonably
powerful attack.

Water Temple - Darkness, as all inhabitants are blind in it. Just make
sure all monsters have an escape route while in darkness, because if
they panic and can't flee, they attack.

Fire temple - It's rare to die to anything but the ACW in here. Just
make sure you have a highly charged wand (or well trained spell) of
stunning. The ACW should be easy after that : )

Cat Lord - Don't kill cats. Yes it's worth the trouble : ) Lead him
to the previous level, and web him, then blind or confuse him with
potions.

Earth temple - Lead monsters up the stairs one-by-one. Alternatively,
use every fire ball blast you have and hope for the best : )

Mana temple - The only thing you really need for this is confusion
resistance, as much as possible. Wake the Archmage, and stand in the
hallway killing monsters, until you see him. Lead him around the
hallway, all the way outside of the temple entirely. Keep a 'buffer
monster' between you two all the time, to eleminate his bolt spells
(you can use a wand of monster creation if you need to create your
own 'meat shield'). When you get to the place you tunneled in at, kill
your 'meat shield' and let the body of the Archmage be a 'stopper' in
the mouth of your tunnel. This keeps away the interference. Just stand
out of a straight line with the Archmage (so he can't use death rays),
and kill him with (poisoned) missiles.

D:50 - Leave the center room alone, or at least leave it until the
end. Tunnel into the top and bottom rooms, use darkness against the
chaos goons, and invis against the ghosts. Teleport back and forth
to the top and bottom levers. Closing them will cause a single balor
to teleport to one and open it. You can kill them all one-by-one this
way, including Fisty.

For more info, read one of the guides at Silfir's blogspot.
Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong!
Silfir
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4279 days, 6 hours, 48 minutes and 11 seconds ago.
Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 at 18:10 (GMT -5)

adomguides.blogspot.com, yeah.

Also,



Spoiler
Don't do Nuurag-Vaarn without death ray resistance. Gut is an absolute ADOM crack and will not make mistakes that lead to him taking a hit from a death ray, but very few can match his prowess, and it's always better to leave rooms for mistakes in ADOM.

D:50 sometimes has an undiggable left half. In this case you'll have to mow down some serious writhing masses of primal chaos. There's some tunnels that still take you to the lever rooms without you waking the guys at the gates. Also, if you use a wand of destruction after pulling each lever, you don't have to kill the balors, even though it's certainly lots of fun. Also, balors will open the levers usually only when you've already departed for the stairs.

You drop the golden ball.
You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west.
Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?"
Which direction? (123456789) 4
Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated.
You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd!
jsr
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4732 days, 11 hours, 11 minutes and 24 seconds ago.
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 at 02:24 (GMT -5)

Uhm, I've got nothing more to add. Except, maybe, one thing, which is relevant in my personal case (due to unstable temper). The thing is: if your promising character dies, don't become depressed. Even if this seems to ruin "the most perfect game setup you ever had", remember, that there are much more promising games awaiting you ahead, and almost every character death makes you wiser.
Oh my, I'm so lonely and need some company
Silfir
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Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 at 03:17 (GMT -5)

Indeed. No death is for nothing. If anything, your first win will be in the memory of all the dead that helped make it possible.
You drop the golden ball.
You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west.
Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?"
Which direction? (123456789) 4
Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated.
You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd!
tipo mastr
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5844 days, 6 hours, 56 minutes and 53 seconds ago.
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 at 11:46 (GMT -5)

yes, i alraedy know that feeling...I had a lvl 13 high elven archer that was doing awesome, until i ran into a tension room with random creatures...a living wall kicked my butt >_<;

But now i have a similar character at lvl 11, im gonna go to the CoC soon. =)

edit: five minutes later, yet another stupid death...didnt realize how strong swamp hydras are >_<

[Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/25/2008 at 11:53 (GMT -5) by tipo mastr]
Silfir
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Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 at 13:06 (GMT -5)

Ouch. A living wall at level 13? That is exceptional bad luck. Don't feel discouraged, something like that won't happen often.

As for the swamp hydras, well... Now You Know, And Knowing Is Half The Battle.
You drop the golden ball.
You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west.
Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?"
Which direction? (123456789) 4
Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated.
You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd!
tipo mastr
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5844 days, 6 hours, 56 minutes and 53 seconds ago.
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 at 13:11 (GMT -5)

lawl GI joe

thanks ^^
Silfir
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4279 days, 6 hours, 48 minutes and 11 seconds ago.
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 at 15:35 (GMT -5)

Isn't it peculiar that I just cited GI Joe, knowing that I'm doing so, without having ever seen an episode, action figure or anything of it in my life?

Some catch phrases really do stick.
You drop the golden ball.
You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west.
Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?"
Which direction? (123456789) 4
Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated.
You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd!
tipo mastr
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5844 days, 6 hours, 56 minutes and 53 seconds ago.
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 at 16:02 (GMT -5)

well, you're here on a forum dedicated to a game similar to D&D, that's not peculiar? ;P

playing a wizard up to like level 6 is annoying <_<


EDIT: speak of the devil, our group's running a D&D campaign today lol

[Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/25/2008 at 16:28 (GMT -5) by tipo mastr]
Nezur
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5648 days, 6 hours, 29 minutes and 44 seconds ago.
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 at 16:34 (GMT -5)

If you think there's a risk of dying, improve your PC in some way and come back later.

> playing a wizard up to like level 6 is annoying

The first level of the Infinite Dungeon (ID) is a great place to gain levels relatively safely in the early game. It is found by walking as south as possible from the wilderness square you start on.



[Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/25/2008 at 16:50 (GMT -5) by Nezur]
tipo mastr
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5844 days, 6 hours, 56 minutes and 53 seconds ago.
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 at 16:42 (GMT -5)

I usually don't have an issue with the first few levels, although i suppose the PC would be a bit easier with a couple exra levels.

I must say that a wizard with some good offensive spells really helps tackle the ants on level 2...i usually get like 3 levels from that. =P
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gut
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5108 days, 8 hours, 22 minutes and 57 seconds ago.
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 at 07:45 (GMT -5)

>playing a wizard up to like level 6 is annoying <_<

Not if you do it this way:

http://www.adom.de/forums/showthread.php?t=490&highlight=demo+clear+bugwil

Getting to exp. level 13 has never been easier : )
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vogonpoet
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Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 at 10:51 (GMT -5)

Well I find clearing bandit town tends to be enough to take my wizards to level 7 or so... and taking on Hotzy at Level 1 is considerably less dangerous than bugwil surely...
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gut
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5108 days, 8 hours, 22 minutes and 57 seconds ago.
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 at 18:31 (GMT -5)

It's common to have some dead PC's in BUGWIL while
you are learning the technique, but once you learn
it, deaths are very rare. Think about it, with
two (or even three) torches in, they can't really
sneak up on you : )
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gut
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5108 days, 8 hours, 22 minutes and 57 seconds ago.
Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 at 07:33 (GMT -5)

THE TH TALENT SUCKS!!!!!!

Seriously, I highly advise the bookcasting talents
for wizards.
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Darren Grey
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4450 days, 6 hours, 6 minutes and 1 second ago.
Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 at 11:28 (GMT -5)

If a wizard needs books so badly he can indeed just ID-scum (considering this is newbie advise, I'd say that's better). Book-casting ain't so important either, since you can find enough books to cast from memory. Most important early talents are speed and long stride - all extremely valuable to any spellcaster. Alert is best taken at start-up for the possibility of TH later.

Casting from HP is sure as heck not a "live or die" thing. Any mana abused is easily restored and not particularly necessary since you have an abundance of it regardless. Use it whenever it's advantageous.
Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse."
vogonpoet
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Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 at 02:48 (GMT -5)

Yeah, don't worry about gut though - by the time most PCs are leaving Terinyo to go find the CoC, he likes his wizards to be leaving the ToEF with their second Orb, and so his advice tends be weirdly skewed - much like his mind I suspect :-D
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5108 days, 8 hours, 22 minutes and 57 seconds ago.
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 at 06:31 (GMT -5)

True! : )
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Silfir
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4279 days, 6 hours, 48 minutes and 11 seconds ago.
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 at 16:04 (GMT -5)

Pray tell, how is getting to Learning of 25 and more "very easy for any race"? Talking about Garth or what am I missing?
You drop the golden ball.
You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west.
Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?"
Which direction? (123456789) 4
Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated.
You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd!
OneFreeMan
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5911 days and 50 seconds ago.
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 at 03:04 (GMT -5)

So we've got the Cup birthsign and a character who starts with Literacy and books to read on top.

Sure doesn't sound like "any" character can achieve these goals easily.
[OneFreeMan]
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gut
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5108 days, 8 hours, 22 minutes and 57 seconds ago.
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> The birth sign the cup will give you a +2

> I can think of a +6 bonus

> if needed the addition of Garth

> there are helms and rings that

> All you need is a pickaxe, a gray ooze and a

> there is a certain art. that with TP, a magic
> map scroll and slaying ammo

I don't want to criticize, but that sounds
like a fair bit of work there. The reason
I recommend the bookcasting talents, is
because it replaces work with fun. You don't
have to have your future dependant on lucky
book finds, just a few will do nicely.

For all the work that one would put into
getting their Le stat to 25, using the methods
described above, the game could be beaten
and forgotten.
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Silfir
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Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 at 08:59 (GMT -5)

Reading spellbooks doesn't give as much Learning as I'd want it to, sadly. The effect becomes noticable later, with lots of spellbooks at your disposal to read.
You drop the golden ball.
You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west.
Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?"
Which direction? (123456789) 4
Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated.
You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd!
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gut
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5108 days, 8 hours, 22 minutes and 57 seconds ago.
Posted on Sunday, September 07, 2008 at 08:00 (GMT -5)

> That's a load of crap Gut

> Do you have trouble with that Gut?

OK, now you're starting to annoy me. Let's just look at some of the
stuff you have said:

> I would say gray elves are the best choice for wizards

Pretty original there : )

> Get the treasure hunter talent asap; by at least level 6. You
> don't want your wizard running out of offensive spell to cast.
> It will give you many more spell book drops at the start.

Many eh? At the start eh? Well, considering the fact that TH only
effects item drops from killed monsters, and it yields only 1 more
item per ~10 kills, AND very few of those item drops will be books, I
doubt that very seriously. If TH gets yields an average wizard PC an
extra 3 spellbooks in the early-game, I'd be amazed. Strike 1.

> Play with tactics on "very defensively" than switch to "coward"

Actually, the safest strategy is to play with tactics set to coward,
only switching when you have a reason, such as gaining shield marks.
Strike 2.

> Gut early on book casting for a wizard is not a good idea in my
> opinion. Books are heavy and easily destroyed.

Then how do I manage to keep mine for the ENTIRE game? Dumb luck?
Random chance? Strike 3.

> It's better to suck them [spellbooks] dry while you can

Yes, much better than infinite castings. Suck that teleport book
dry... and enjoy your 260 castings. Besides, it's not like periodic
(and near effortless) bookcasting would increase one's mana stat by
~15 points or so. Strike 4.

> Besides that is like 6 talents with stat requirements

[SARCASM] Yes, Dexterity 18+ and Perception 15+ is incredibly
difficult for gray elven wizards to achieve. [/SARCASM] Also, it only
takes 4 talents to get Good Book Caster, which is 'great' in its own
right : )

> (just to be able to cast your spells at x1.5 cost).

What part of 'infinite castings' do you not understand. Besides,
you left out the energy cost penalty, which is a far more dangerous
aspect than the extra PP's cost. You also left out the fact that
bookcasting doesn't increase your spell proficiency, which is also
a bigger downside of bookcasting than the PP's cost. You probably
didn't know that though, so I won't hold it against you. Considering
ALL of the downsides of bookcasting, I still advise using it. It's
just that good.

> a wizard should have enough books and have no need for book casting

I won't bother explaining to you, the benefits of bookcasting even if
you have a nice spell list, because you irritate me. Still though,
Srike 5.

> wizard with TH should find all [the books] he/she needs in the PC vault

Once again. [SARCASM] Yes the PC vault should be a nice, safe place
for an elven wizard to start the game. All new players would do well
to begin their games there. [/SARCASM] Strike 6.

> Any race can achieve a learning of 25+ very easily

We must have different definitions of 'very easily'. If you or anybody
else can 'easily' get a troll to Le 25, you should just as 'easily'
skip magic and beat the game weilding the cute puppy corpse. Strike 8,
we skipped 7 because you kept on with this.

> Also there are other treasures to be had along with that +9 maybe
> even another art. and dragon armor.

Would you please give me the name of the dragon armor that increases
my Le stat? Strike 9.

> "For all the work that one would put into
> getting their Le stat to 25, using the methods
> described above, the game could be beaten
> and forgotten. "

> That's a load of crap Gut.

Because you irritate me, I will actually break this down to prove you
wrong. A troll might start with Le 5, so:

> The birth sign the cup will give you a +2.

> Than I can think of a +6 bonus [Oracle]

We'll add the Oracle bonus momentarily, so for now we now have Le 7.

> But if you still need more the extra books drop from TH

We'll be generous, and say 14, as that's double. However, I know for
an absolute fact (from my gazillion 'limited turns' games) that if
you read enough books to increase your Le stat by 7 points, you have
eaten up 1000's of game turns. Probably at least 3000.

> and if needed the addition of Garth

Now we have 19.

> only need to get a 19 learning for the +6 to make it a 25.

OK, now we add the Oracle boost, and it's 25 (not always though). We
had to get enough gold for much Garth training, which eats turns in
its own right. Then we wait 1000's of game turns for it to completely
take effect. Then we aquire enough gold to get 'very close' to our
diety. Then we visit the HMV (1000's of turns again), and finally
get doom removal.

Considering that the game CAN be beaten in ~16,000 turns, I think my
previous statement holds true:

"For all the work that one would put into
getting their Le stat to 25, using the methods
described above, the game could be beaten
and forgotten."

Sorry, it's not a load of crap at all, as I've done it. Strike 10,
you're out.

> did it ever occur to you that whizzing through the game is not
> everyone’s idea of fun?

I think it may have briefly occured to me durring one of my 'fling
the bling' challenges... that took rather, forever. If you like taking
your time, take it. I was just pointing out that some of the stuff
you were suggesting seemed like a lot of work to me.

> I really don't see how someone couldn't reach 25+ learning in the
> course of adventuring.

That seems to be quite a change from 'very easily'.

> Do you have trouble with that Gut?

I have trouble with your rudeness.


Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong!
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