Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / Spoilers / Roasted. Roasted. Roasted.
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vogonpoet Registered user Last page view: 5167 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes and 15 seconds ago. |
Roasted. Roasted. Roasted. Roasted. Roasted. Ambushed by barbarians in the wilderness. Roasted. Roasted. Roasted. In the last few days, I have sent almost 100 hurthling elementalists called Darren (and a few Darinas :) ) to their deaths in the ToEF. A few other R/C combos (some called Grey, but again, mainly Darrrens) were sent as well. Thanks Mr Grey, for putting the god-awful Brimstone Man challenge back in mind. Go straight to the ToEF. Avoid all wilderness encounters. Enter the ToEF with 0 XP. Do not leave the ToEF again until you have the Fire Orb. Avoid all wilderness encounters. Leave the chain. The use of randomly generated altars inside the ToEF is not allowed. (Hang on hang on, surely that last one is a bit harsh? They are such a rarity, and the other rules are already uber-extreme harshness personified.) The good news for Elraz seems to be that Darren has given him pretty much the only R/C combo that seems to have any chance at all in there. The bad news for Elraz is its just insane. My early thoughts about Brimstone man. They are technically spoily, but this is the Spoiler forum, so no black cloak: 1/ It has to be elementalist really: You need a powerful attack FROM THE WORD GO, which won't burn up instantly. No mindcrafter is going to be able to slay a confused fire giant king with his bare fists, and for wizards starting with a book of Frostify, its just a case of which burns first whilst trying to read the thing, the book or the wizard. 2/ You need natural regen, fire resistances and HP to burn: You need to be born in the month of Candle. No arguments. You want to start off with 2 rings of fire resistance. YOu have to survive long enough to generate some corpses. 3/ If you get insanely lucky, and survive your first lets say 250 turns in the ToEF, you will eventually run into starvation problems: Food preservation is required. 4/ It can't be a troll: You might actually starve to death before reaching the ToEF You definitely need enough PP to cast 1 frost bolt. You really need enough PP to cast 2 frost bolts. 5/ About those fire resistance rings again: A candle born hurthling who starts off with a cursed ring of fire resistance really does seem like the best bet. I guess a lucky human might get lucky. 6/ Even if you manage to generate a candle born hurthling elementalist with two rings of fire resistance, you want to be Immune to Pain, or at least Very Hardy and Tough of SKin. 7/ Even then, you could easily still die before meeting a fire-based monster - have had tension rooms of troll cheifs or chaos sisters be the first hostiles I came across. 8/ Even then, if you meet a fire-based monster, it might not leave a corpse, or it might be a fire giant king (how does HP: -208/29 sound?) or just an elemental, or a grue, or an ancient red dragon or etc etc etc. I got to level 7 once (but even that was not valid, as if I really can't cowardly escape the jackals, and sometimes you just are not fast enough to do so, I allow myself just one frost bolt to try and escape, so I already had three jackals on my kill list (level 1, but still). I got to the third ToEF level once (without meeting a single monster dammit). My best non-wilderness contaminated PC got to level 6. Most die in under 30 ToEF turns, many almost instantly. Its really insane. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 9/12/2008 at 03:28 (GMT -5) by vogonpoet] |
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Elraz Registered user Last page view: 5309 days, 22 hours, 43 minutes and 44 seconds ago. |
vogonpoet, thanks so much for the tips. While sending about 6 gut-wizards to they early death, I thought alot about Darren`s challenge and I`ve reached about the same conclusions as you did (good point about the food preservation). one thing that bother me though is the need for digging on the 4th floor - it seems you`ll have to spend great amount of time looking for pick axe or a wand, and even if you do, it is not likely you will found rings of ice or blankets that will be able to preserve them. |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4279 days, 6 hours, 34 minutes and 41 seconds ago. |
You need to preserve piety for a pickaxe prayer, or level up to 50 to use your elementalist power. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Elraz Registered user Last page view: 5309 days, 22 hours, 43 minutes and 44 seconds ago. |
I realy don`t see how I can gain enough piety without using an alter, considering the hostile environment. |
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vogonpoet Registered user Last page view: 5167 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes and 15 seconds ago. |
Well Candels get 3 prayers, so you MIGHT be able to save one, but I think you probably have to accept the fact that you will need to get lucky with wand preservation - you can't just attack the temple as soon as possible - leveling up to the late teens would surely be recommended. I never heard a report of anyone ever actually getting as far as digging the temple in this challenge though, so its kinda hypothetical :) Maybe when Darren wakes up he will have some ancient reports from the news group to shed some more light on the issue. Oh, and you might find a holy symbol too, so there are a few random drop possibilities in actual fact. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 9/12/2008 at 04:53 (GMT -5) by vogonpoet] |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 27 seconds ago. |
I didn't even remember the no-altar restriction. I have always had more luck with gnomes than hurthlings. I find their starting stats more likely to allow for immediate access to the 'immune to pain' talent. I always pursue the heir gift 'ring of elemental mastery' because it provides -fire as well as extra PV. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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vogonpoet Registered user Last page view: 5167 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes and 15 seconds ago. |
I guess as far as leveling vs starvation goes, if you manage to get your corpse-based fire immunity, and make it to the teens, as you wander between the levels regenerating monsters, you could melee a karmic being to speed things up slightly... |
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vogonpoet Registered user Last page view: 5167 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes and 15 seconds ago. |
About the gut challenge: Surely Le of 24 is a bit high gut? I mean it helps and all, but do you really want Elraz to re-roll so often??? Poor guy is already spending hours roll-scumming for Darren's hurthling (and my archer if he has any sense, although not as necessary as the elementalist). I can't remember last time I rolled a Wiz with Le that high... mind you, its always the 13s and 14s you remember... When I go for an elven turbo-wizard, I am generally happy if Ma + Le stats > 35. |
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Elraz Registered user Last page view: 5309 days, 22 hours, 43 minutes and 44 seconds ago. |
Actually it`s not that much of a bother since when I`m using the starting questions and picking the Learned talent, I got one every 6 or 7 rolls. I must admit that besides gut`s challenge, I`ve only tried Darren`s, just of curiosity. well, it appear that curiosity killed the hurtling. Many times. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 9/12/2008 at 05:34 (GMT -5) by Elraz] |
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vogonpoet Registered user Last page view: 5167 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes and 15 seconds ago. |
Wow, using the starting questions is dedicated indeed, I'm impressed... I have like zero patience, especially when I suspect my PC is going to an early death. The joy of gut's limited turns challenge is that the PC is out of depth basically the entire time... if you aim for < 16 k turns like gut's record, make that hopelessly out of depth, but even < 45 k turns is rushing things somewhat... |
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DGrey Unregistered user |
*wakes up and rifles through ancient reports* Ah, I do love how this challenge keeps resurfacing. It's almost completely impossible, but by god it's fun and horrendously addictive. I actually prefer gnomes myself - I usually scum for 2 rings of fire resistance and immune to pain stats (takes a very long time). When I'm not in the mood for roll-scumming I'll just send random hurthlings in and enjoy watching them burn. There is a "lesser" version of this challenge, where you're allowed to exit into the wilderness square. This allows HP recovery out of the heat, and food-gathering with Survival (if Falcon born). I've done extremely well with this - managed to get a guy to level 17, got fire resistance from a corpse, was training up stats casting all my fire spells and burdening myself with seeds, and had two levels pacified so I had escape routes everywhere. Died of starvation eventually, 1 turn from the exit - stupid thing was I'd never used any of my prayers. One important point about prayers is that you do gain piety as you level up. Small amounts, but they can make all the difference. I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to gain enough to summon a pick axe on the top level, and with a bit of luck just the one will last. It is best if you can get some kills in at the start before you have to pray, since the extra hp means your prayers last longer. I did find an altar with an attempt at this challenge once. Even found bracers of regen so I was healing faster than I was hurting. Decided to try for a precrown and got killed by a thrown rock out of visual range. Thanks RNG... With fire giants and fire giant kings around though you really don't hae time to be messing about with altars. Priority is to get levels fast, and hopefully find some decent gear (I've gotten BDSM in there before - oh how I would have loved RDSM...) Someone has done a "proof of concept" with the weaker version of the challenge - managed to beat the challenge using save-scumming on a rock-throwing hurthling monk. Took a lot of save-restoring as I'm sure you can imagine - apparently the worst thing was the Wyrm's confusion, since obviously you have no herb training or water orb. I can't imagine monks have a lot of success in general though, especially compared to elementalists. Talent choices are vital, and there are so many routes to choose. To cut down on roll-scumming you can get the Heir gift. To cut down on resistances needed you can get Immune to Pain, though the stat requirements are high. Or you can hope to chance that a corpse is generated and go for the speed or hp or power talents instead. The latter I find helps immensely with early survivability, since casting from hp really isn't advisable in this challenge. Starsign-wise Candle doesn't help that much - it rarely gives an extra prayer, and the extra healing is negligible inside the inferno. The additional talent is probably the best thing about it. Falcon is obviously mandatory for the weak version of the challenge, and the extra Talent and Wi are useful too. A hurthling born in Tree is almost guaranteed to have the ItP stat requirements. Overall I like Salamander best though - the fire magic cost reduction can even be handy for non-fire threat rooms. Wand is okay for gnomes too. Food preservation also seems to be of little use. Corpses are incredibly rare either way. The most infuriating thing is that the Elementalist level 6 class power doesn't work! Not only that, but it stops you getting resistance from fire bugs or lizards (drakes and dragons still work). If the L6 power worked then this challenge would be much simpler, since it's easy to get to level 7 or so with just a couple of frost bolts. The dream would be to start with 2 fire resistance rings, get to level 5 quickly, find a corpse, then find yourself a fireproof blanket (dare you pickpocket the giants?), some good equipment, and without starving eventually work your way up to the level you get Ice Ball at. Of course a huge problem is that around level 14 or so your ascension slows down incredibly, and getting further levels is very hard. Trying to get to the Ice Ball stage would take a very long time. |
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Soirana Registered user Chaos Freak Last page view: 4360 days, 11 hours, 9 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
on by best attempt i got to lv14. First drop from fire giant being bracers of resistance sure helped:) But that did not saved from fire giant king. i'd rather say being gnome means no immune to pain as they rarely meet required toughness. A root is a flower that disdains fame. Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931) |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 19 hours, 16 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
I have a question about your challenge, VogonPoetry, which I thought I'd try. How can you get past the eternal guardian? -Everything to be killed on sight. -No chatting to anyone. I see a problem there... You could get to level 50 really easily, but then what? How can you go further down? |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 27 seconds ago. |
TP past the EG. He won't even follow you down the stairs : ) I wasted the best chance I ever had at the Brimstone man challenge. I wasn't yet so good at ADOM as I had only been playing it a few YEARS at the time : ) I killed a red dragon shortly after entering the tower, and it dropped a wand of wishing with 4 charges. I at least got a RDSM out of it, but wasted the other wishes. Oh, to have that chance again : ) Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 19 hours, 16 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
"TP past the EG" -Everything to be killed on sight. Can't do both. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 52 minutes and 31 seconds ago. |
Kill the guardian whilst you're standing on the stairs, that way he won't respawn. However it also means you can never use the DarkForge shortcut. If you want to be cheap you could also blind yourself on that level and pass him peacefully ;) As for gut's challenge, it ain't that hard, but you do have to be careful and hope for a bit of luck. Le 24 seems like overkill though - my fastest run started with Le around 16 or so. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 19 hours, 16 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
"I can't imagine monks have a lot of success in general though, especially compared to elementalists." Actually, I think monks are the only class that has any chance of doing anything similar to this challenge. You'll never get a pick axe from praying. You need 15,000 piety to get a pick axe. You start with 200 and level-ups will never give you enough to get 15k. A holy symbol at best can give you 110 piety in 220 turns of praying. At 11k piety, you'll lose 110 piety every 220 turns; see where this is going... An elementalist, as the challenge requires, would have to get to level 50 to get there. I found a ring of weakness before going into the fire tower once, and spent ~30 game days and ~1 real life week killing everything in the tower including thousands of fire giants, and never got past the 30s in level. Getting level 50 is not even imaginable, since nothing in the tower except the acw himself gives a lot of xp. A monk can kick walls at level 13, and could kill acw somewhere in the 20s or early 30s in level. It is possible to get a pick axe from a dragon drop, but not very likely, and even if you did have that astounding luck, you'll probably not have a fireproof blanket that didn't burn up yet. If you did get one, you'd have to be astronomically lucky for it to not shatter from the heat or break (no mining) before digging the quickest path you could into the tower. You could also find a Blessed ring of ice from a dragon, and then only worry about it breaking and then hoping for a scroll of repair or another pick axe from a dragon... If you found a wand of wishes, your best option would be to wish for pickaxes. You could buy 1 lottery ticket and have a better chance of winning than for all those events to occur in the same game. I don't think survival is the biggest problem; it's not skill or tactics that would get you through this challenge but ridiculously stupid blind luck... If the challenge were amended to include monks, then it's foreseeable for a monk to do this. As it stands with an elementalist, I'll take my chances with the lottery rather than this challenge. The archer challenge, however, does seem possible with skill and tactics if the Eternal Guardian issue can be addressed. If that is resolved, I'd like to make a go of it. |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 19 hours, 16 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
I just remembered, you could also get a wand of digging or a spellbook of divine digger or really really lucky with a potion of wonder. So, it's not as practically impossible as I implied, but it's still a lot more luck than tactics. The long post missed your EG comments, heh. I seem to remember the last time I lured an EG off the stairs, a new one spawned on the stairs... I could be wrong, or it could have been an older version, but when does a new guardian spawn? When the previous one leaves the stairs or when the previous one is killed? A monk could switch places with him, but the challenge calls for an archer. I'd like to be sure it's possible before I start. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 52 minutes and 31 seconds ago. |
The new EG doesn't spawn till the old one has moves two steps from the stairs. So hit him with an arrow, let him move 1 step, teleport onto the stairs and finish him off. Of course that's not necessarily in the slightest bit simple to do... You could maybe hit him from one side, teleport to the other side of him and hit him from there to lure him back onto the stairs, and keep going back and forth. Haven't tried that though. As for the Tower, I really don't think the walls are such an issue. Survival comes first, and just because it seems impossible doesn't mean it's not fun. Give it a try at least. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 19 hours, 16 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
Thanks for the info. With 2 steps to spawn a new guardian, it could be done. I've snuck past the guardian before, but not while also killing him. There's a guaranteed teleport wand and booze in the game after all. oops, never mind on the guaranteed booze (no chatting)... So, if I'm standing on the stairs and kill the EG, a new eg won't spawn? Do you know what creature type EG is? construct, humanoid, etc... Seems impossible isn't the issue, I've done difficult challenge games in the past. All archery, all melee, all unarmed, all spellcasting, even no equipment (only allowed to pick up rocks, orbs, and nothing else, may only eat corpses off the ground). I've successfully completed all those challenges (the unarmed was a non-ultimate chaos god win and the no equipment was a non-ultimate close gates win), so I don't mind difficult. It's the random luck that bothers me. A monk fire tower challenge, I could imagine trying, but I could foresee toiling away on my 100th elementalist to get to level 30, ready, willing, and able to finish, but cursing the RNG for not giving up the items needed to finish... Not seemingly fun for me (but could be fun for others). |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 52 minutes and 31 seconds ago. |
EG is humanoid. Has quite a lot of HP too. As for the Tower thing, depends on whether you see that gameplay as toiling or just stupid fun ;) Like I said, give it a try without thinking or planning, and you might see what I mean. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 27 seconds ago. |
It is fun... in a way : ) It must be, I nearly genocided the entire gnomish race trying it. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Elraz Registered user Last page view: 5309 days, 22 hours, 43 minutes and 44 seconds ago. |
By the way gut, gut jr. has just arriced the ToEF. What is the recommended pace for this stage? my guess is that I will leave the tower with ~23500 turns, so will it be possible to close the gate at 45000 (I already have water orb and RoHK)? |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 52 minutes and 31 seconds ago. |
You do seem to be on track at your current pace. However you may wish to rush through certain late areas, not fully exploring dungeons or fully clearing temples (Earth can be worth the xp though). You might want to skip the BDC, or do it using extensive teleporting with Farsight and Magic Map to help speed things up. Casting from HP or praying will often be preferable to waiting for PP to regen - the Ma abuse is worth it for the time saved. Having said all that, you can go from the Tower to victory in under 8k turns if you're really determined. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." [Edited 1 time, last edit on 9/13/2008 at 08:16 (GMT -5) by Darren Grey] |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 27 seconds ago. |
You're more than on pace to get a 45,000 turn victory. Do you have the fire orb yet, or are going for it now? That is probably the most difficult feat in this challenge. There is a thread in this forum entitled 'the best laid plans' in which you can find more info than any sane person could ever want. If your kitty karma is good, there are mainly only 4 things that will kill you after the tower: The casino shopkeeper, Earth temple goons (not likely), the Archmage (proper tactics make him easy), and D:50. I highly advise sprinting to the AKW as soon as possible, and killing him with magic missiles, while invis and slowed. How many of these guys have you got to the late-game yet? If this is the first, and you close the gate, that would be really impressive : ) Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! [Edited 1 time, last edit on 9/13/2008 at 13:16 (GMT -5) by gut] |
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Elraz Registered user Last page view: 5309 days, 22 hours, 43 minutes and 44 seconds ago. |
ACW didn`t leave me a chance. Confused me when he was out if sight, 3 energy rays and I was dead. Didn`t gave up on gut jr. though so I`ll keep update you. At least I know my game plan was good: Bugs till level 11 - CoC to get more stuff and the portal quest - ID for books - graveyard - pyramid - CoC untill wall of flames - ToHK - ToEF. |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes and 27 seconds ago. |
Getting it in ~45,000 turns is pretty tough, and it's good to see you are continuing with it. I have a good feeling about the next gut jr. : ) Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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vogonpoet Registered user Last page view: 5167 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes and 15 seconds ago. |
Yeah the EG is a problem, but Darren's ping-pong teleport trick sounds pretty reasonable - its not like beggars are the only source of booze - you ought to find plenty enough to get the job done - the EG is pretty slow after all - you ought to have time to get a few lightning shots in before teleportation required. Err, not - sure - why - this post - w-a-s - so disjointed dash it. Oh, and is there some clarification required for cavernous levels??? Clearly some sort of sensible compromise is required - you can't empty the Animated Forest, but I would expect to see at least a few (as in loads ;) ) trees on the kill list. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 9/15/2008 at 04:31 (GMT -5) by vogonpoet] |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 19 hours, 16 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
I had considered the tree level and other cavernous levels. I don't think they'll be a huge problem. My plan was if I went down a staircase and saw some trees, then I'd kill what I saw, go up the stairs, and then go down the other stairs, skipping the tree level entirely. If I stay the heck away from carrot juice, I should be able to keep my perception pretty low unless I get unlucky with an exchange potion. Seriously, archers, wizards, and clerics are the 3 easiest classes to win with by a huge margin over any other class, so if I can't deal with caverns, then I'm doing something wrong. The eg still concerns me, since I've never snuck past an EG AND killed it. As long as it doesn't respawn on me when I kill it while standing on the stairs, I should be good to go. The biggest problem I envision (aside from the eg) is running out of ammo. In many places, like caverns or tree level, I won't be retrieving any ammo; I'll just leave it behind and move on to limit respawns. So, running out of ammo might be a huge concern. 2 possible remedies are getting the art pick axe (which isn't something you could count on, behind entirely luck), and finding a level(s) in the id that can generate fletchery kits. The latter is what I'm going to try to figure out. I might stay in the id for awhile till I find a fletchery kit, and then clear those levels for a while to stock up on them. I don't know how that will go. |
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maddog Unregistered user |
Love the Brimstone challenge. I believe I was involved in it's conception back in those days. I was surprised that once a toon gets viable it gets REALLY viable. Dragon hoards leave a lot of treasure behind and it's not uncommon to find the blanket or ring you seek so desperately. Rings seem far more durable than blankets though. Expect to wear wands in the missile slot. Viability comes when you get either 1) A source of immunity (crown, scale mail) 2) 3 sources of resistance + 100 healing (this will completely supress background damage) 3) A source of regeneration (my only really promising toon got viability through a knife of endurance, which are fairly abundant and very heat durable) I only ever tried the lite edition on version 1.0. I was buff enough to take the wyrm down if I had found a source of digging... which I did not. |
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