Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / ADOM / Rangers = best warrior class??
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 4 hours, 56 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
if you don't care for pets, bards are gonna suck; Not true, not true! I hate pets and bards are still my favourite class :) They have that extra random element to make the game more fun. As for merchants, they can become just as powerful as everyone else later on (let's face it, with high stats and good equipment every class starts to look the same). Early on the blinging is rather fun. They're not really good at anything in particularl, but they are a nice novelty class. Some other classes, such as Healers and Monks (as mentioned by Silfir) seem very weak at the start, and only really start to shine heavily when they get to around level 20. And pretty much any class seems good if you're a drakeling... Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Scummer Unregistered user |
Ok. What is a "pure" caster? My favorite build currently is rolling a Dwarf Priest until I get decent Learning and Mana...these guys are able to melee (sometimes they do it more than they cast) have awesome armor to start with, healing and herbalism, and can cast supporting spells once they train their abilities. While this character is a caster...they melee rather well. |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 18 hours, 20 minutes and 6 seconds ago. |
According to Mr. Biskup, pure casters are wizards, Necros, and elementalists (although elementalists are very bad with spellbooks). These classes require twice as many weapon marks to advance. Priests and Druids are considered hybrids and receive a 50% penalty with weapon marks, but find extra spellbooks like wizards and necros do. Paladins take no penalty with weapons, but still find extra spellbooks, though not as many as the other casters do. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 4 hours, 56 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
Healers and paladins are both semi-casters, requiring twice the castings to improve effectivity in clerical spells but still with the regular fighter number of weapon marks needed. Not sure if healers get extra spellbooks too, but they certainly don't get on the same order as the true casters. Of course even a wizard can swing a sword with ease - they just start with poorer physical stats and don't rise in weapon levels as fast. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4279 days, 5 hours, 38 minutes and 34 seconds ago. |
Elementalists are bad with spellbooks? My experience tells me that they can read them well, they just don't find them often. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 18 hours, 20 minutes and 6 seconds ago. |
Most classes cast divine spells with twice the castings needed to improve, exceptions being clerics and druids. Wizards can weild a sword with ease, and farmers can cast a fireball with ease. One requires double sword marks to advance sword skill, and one requires double fireball marks to advance fireball skill... Neither Healers or elementalists find extra spellbooks. Elementalists also get an unwritten penalty to reading books like barbarians and farmers get. Of course, they have concentration to start, which helps immensely, so it's not too bad for them. They are considered 'pure casters' though, so they have to trudge through with double weapon marks needed. |
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Scummer Unregistered user |
Thanks for explaining...The hybrids really offer some excellence choices when you factor in race starting skills. I may experiment a little more with paladins, though. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 4 hours, 56 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
You've got your figures in a little twist there, AshenPlanet - for non-casters it costs triple points. The cost for increasing effectivity looks like this: Class | Arcane | Clerical | Weapons -----------------+--------+----------+----------- Arcane casters | x1 | x2 | x2 Clerical casters | x2 | x1 | x1.5 Paladins | x3 | x2 | x1 Everyone else | x3 | x3 | x1 Arcane casters = wizards, elementalists and necromancers Clerical casters = priests and druids Arcane spells are all the Ball spells, Magic Missile, Knock, Slow Monster, Invisibility, Teleportation, Strength of Atlas, Magic Lock and Web. Clerical spells are all the Cure spells, Bless, Neutralise Noison, Dispel Undead, Earthquake, Revelation, Know Alginment and Petrification. All other spells belong to both. I had thought healers were the same as paladins, but can find no mention of that in the manual - must have just imagined it. Of course for many spells effectivity is not a big deal. Burning Hands and Dispel Undead are two notable exceptions. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 18 hours, 20 minutes and 6 seconds ago. |
I think we both had our numbers in a little twist there, darren... I just wanted to point out that most classes cast at a higher rate than pure or hybrid casters, the actual number being 3x rather than twice is correct, I assume. I only assumed twice since twice was the number you wrote in your post, and I took the number directly from your post, lol. I never lumped healers together with paladins. Pure casters, hybrid casters, and paladins lay outside the norm of weapon and spell mark progression. These are also the classes (except elementalists) that find extra spellbooks. So, to avoid confusion, "One requires double sword marks to advance sword skill, and one requires triple fireball marks to advance fireball skill..." I would strongly disagree with the assertion that "effectivity is not a big deal." I think effectivity is a Huge deal for casters, especially for offensive spells. For non-offensive spells, effectivity increases duration, lowers casting cost, and reduces number of spell knowledge points used in each casting. Offensive spells also do a lot more damage and break through creature defenses with high effectivity. Creatures with evasion will often ignore bolts cast at 10 effectivity, yet they will be battered by those same spells at 35 effectivity (as well as taking heaps more damage). Lower casting cost, more castings, lots more damage, better chance of hitting, etc. - effectivity is good stuff. It's why wizards are better at slinging firebolts, and farmers are better at swinging halberds... |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 4 hours, 56 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
I said for many spells, not all, and in particular was considering for non-casters that wouldn't use offensive spells much. For utility spells they don't need to worry about their effectivity limitations and can reap the benefits of book-casting without remorse. Even if a farmer didn't have the effectivity penalty it would do him little good with how few castings he'd get from the measly number of books he finds. No spell would actually be worth deliberately improving the effectivity (except perhaps Cure Light Wounds). Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 18 hours, 20 minutes and 6 seconds ago. |
Burning hands and dispel undead are offensive spells and I don't think any warrior classes ever bother casting either of them... As for farmers, they are the one class that never needs to cast cure light or any other healing spells on themselves, ever. Post-combat healing is just not an issue for them, and for during-combat healing those cure spells don't cure as much as an herb can; they simply don't have any need for those spells except to use on pets. In general, spells suck compared to weapons for non-casters, weapons are lame compared to spells for casters. While you certainly can play a fireball casting fighter or a spear/shield poking wizard, neither makes much use of their class powers and features. About the only spells that are really good for a ranger or farmer, neither of whom find many spellbooks are strength of atlas and teleport. The duration of strength of atlas is (effectivity + willpower) * 20. Increasing the effectivity even a little bit like from 0 to 5 gives you an extra 100 turns between castings, so yeah, I'd read that book down and boost that effectivity up until I only had a few knowledge points left in the spell and wait to book cast it when I found a second book if I'm playing a ranger or farmer. Something like remove curse or mystic shovel carries intrinsic risks of the book blowing up because the cost is so high, so stuff like that, I'd only read once unless I found a second book. Priests and druids have a foot in both doors, and can really go either way or both ways. Want to kill AnDoR with acid ball? you can. Want to poke him with the trident? you can. They won't spell kill him as fast as a pure caster, and they won't melee or missile him as well as a fighter or archer, but you can build them to go either way. It really depends on what you find - finding purifier/preserver or empowered clothes of power makes casting a good option, finding a wicked eternium spear of devastation makes melee a good option... Flexibility is the strength of priests and druids. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 4 hours, 56 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
The benfits of effectivity on SoA are still pretty small compared to the effect from willpower. Also to get to effectivity 5 would take 45 castings, which for a class bad with spells is non-trivial. Better off to just stack up durations with book-casting. A couple of other handy spells are invisibility, knock and of course the amazing darkness. Mind you, it takes a bit of luck to find them in the first place. As for Andy, personally I take him down with missiles even as a caster. You don't need much of a missile skill to make it a worthwhile option, especially if you have high dex through boosting potions. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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