Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / General / My take on religion
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1865 days, 19 hours, 51 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
No. No. No. Is there a site where I can download the unabridged Bible (along with other holy books) I want to look stuff up on my own. I want to form my own opinions about holy script but first I need the holy scripts. The enlarged Bible is expensive Sorry for the confusion |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 9 days, 4 hours, 17 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
Wouldn't it be better to get a realy powerfull magnifying glass (you can get nice table mounted (like those ajustable desk lamps) ones with built in reading light and everyting), instead of buying enlarged versions of books. Sure it probably cost more than any one book, but if you are going to do some reading it would probably save some money if you have to get special editions of everything... Anyway I've seen several web sites with both the bible and the Koran (or Quran or Khoran or whatever it's spelled)... Unfortunately I've never bookmarked them so I can't realy point you in the right direction... I'm sure there is a "holy scriptures org/net" type site out there somewhere too if you do some searching.. [Edit:] This one looks good for the Bible anyway (bible foundation) http://www.bf.org/BibleSites/bfbibles.php3 Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/5/2002 at 16:15 (GMT -5) by Jan Erik] |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3966 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
About the large type thing.... Can you copy the section you want to read into a Word program, then enlarge the font? Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1865 days, 19 hours, 51 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
Maybe. I'll try later. Rasslin' is on (my guilty sin.) |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3966 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
yep, you're going to hell, what a horrible sin, right on par with playing pool, dancing, and going to movies... :D do us all a favor... don't go for the KJV... the thing was translated in 1611 and is about as understandable as Shakespeare! :) Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1865 days, 19 hours, 51 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
I was forced to read Shakespeaere in high school. It is insanely confusing. The KJV isn't THAT confusing. It is confusing though. |
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feilos Unregistered user |
Ok, I admit my arguments are a bit crude and are that of the borderline propaganda type. But I just want everybody for themselves to explore their religion before going into it. I know most are your arguments are right, but I put the post up without spelling checking or have a 3 part thesis/persuasive speech thingamajig. I just want to refute the accuracy of the Bible. I know that the post I put up was more of a poetic diss... It’s supposed to fuel all you guys and girls out there to really think harder. I agreed with you too Caladriel, about the Net. But only when you can see the world in different views and opinions can you really understand the world. |
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feilos Unregistered user |
Anyway can any of you christians help me see some of your arguements? if you are willing to debate with me...I want to debate of the inconsistances, and misquote that the new testaments has... I know I should do more research...but I haven't really and I guess the whole Nation haven't gotten the whole story about Waco and Heaven's Gate incidents...and what do Christians think of them... |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 9 days, 4 hours, 17 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
What I have always wondered was who descided wich parts of the old testament no longer aplies and wich ones that does... Because AFAIK no christians even pretend to live by all the rules laid down in the old testament (unclean food and all that for example), but quite a few of them are still honored (the 10 commandments not least), while others are hotly debated (like the place of gay people in the church (I believe the old testament says that men sleeping with men shall be put to death))... I can understand that if there are contradictions between the old and the new testament the new one take presidence, but I can't recall ever hearing about Jesus ever saying it was ok to eat "unclean" meat for example... Just wondering, have there ever been made a contious choice (I sure haven't heard of one) or have things just kinda drifted into the background over the centiries... And is that a good enough excuse to not follow those rules anymore? Just wondering what your views on that are(is?)... Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 23 minutes and 56 seconds ago. |
feilos: Only if you promise never to post something so obscenely long again! :-P We have had many Religious and quasi religous discussions: Religous Beliefs Religion and all the Jazz Any other Christians Harry Potter and Religion Religion God n All that Jazz Creationism and Original Sin marriage Israeli/Palestinian Disaster If you like any of those thoughts, respond, or (if there are over 80 posts to the thread) pull them over here, or to: Religion and all the Jazz Or post some new thought you have about problems in the Bible or whatever. I'm sure somebody will respond. [Edited 5 times, last edit on 10/8/2002 at 16:39 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 23 minutes and 56 seconds ago. |
Jan: I think the common consensus is that most of those rules in Leviticus were secular, rather than Spiritual. Jesus actually says that all the old laws, even 8 of the comandments, are rendered obsolete (are superceded) by the first two commandments: Love/place the Lord God above all else and love/treat others as you love/want-to-be-treated yourself. All other spiritual laws are simply derived from these two. (My interpretation of Jesus' words, at least) Paul supports my idea in a couple of his letters. In the early church, some thought non-kosher foods were "unclean"; others thought food sacrificed to small-g gods or blessed by their priests was unclean. People with such strong convictions, according to Paul, are weak in faith. They cannot see that man cannot make a food spiritually clean or unclean. They need such rules and rituals for security. If they grow stronger in faith, they will not need such a crutch. [Edited 5 times, last edit on 10/8/2002 at 17:01 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3966 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
Yep. Jesus' words pretty much say that. Afterwards there are some things in the NT that set forth some new laws. Often they're about things you SHOULD do rather than prohibitions. Some, though, are obviously still in place... things like the command against adultery, for example. There are passages, esp. in paul's letters, that talk about stuff Christians shouldn't be doing. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Tekki Registered user Last page view: 7554 days, 23 hours, 47 minutes and 40 seconds ago. |
1.) If you wish to debate or talk to me, my icq is 69852590. 2.) The whole point of Jesus dying on the cross, not only to save our sins, but to let us go to God ourselves. No longer did a priest have to intercede on our behalf. We can now talk to God directly. If you study the Hebrew laws in depth you will see that they contributed to their overall health. For instance, only kosher meats would usually have less likelyhood of poisoning or sickening them. Also, we all know inbreeding is bad, and they weren't allowed to do it. They had laws providing for the poor, and for those who accidentally killed or were wrongly accused of murder. They also gave a day of rest, which would be quite different from most other cultures. You feel a surge of power. Suddenly your extraordinary carrying capacity fails you. You are crushed by the tons of luggage you are carrying. You die... Go here when you are on the forum to chat about Adom! http://koti.mbnet.fi/adrakon/chat.shtml |
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feilos Unregistered user |
hi, all you agian, I know, I'm marked as the guy whos' post are s**tty, but hey i can prove a point of 2. Anyway Jan Erik, I think I heard a few christians and non-christians say that the unclean laws...like eating pork and such, only applies to Jews the people who are observing the laws and regualations of the Old Testament. I think the Old Testament was for them. The New Testament of which Jewish people, don't give a hoot, is for gentiles...(aka non-jews)...and early christians. |
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feilos Unregistered user |
mine wasn't as long as darkwolf, i know it has like tons of errors, that what happens when you type was you say...anyway do any of you christians want to debate or at least clear up the facts on the URL I've posted... I would love to hear from you... I want to hear from a moderate christain who can live in todays' society who can go up to real people. not those that are: bible thumping fools, the pay-up to god southern evangialist, the doomsayers and half-cursing (make you guilty) bible sayers, the cult-like, the shouting 'confess your sins or you're going to hell' type characters... I just want to find someone how can see my point of view too. and Iridia and Caladriel if you guys got time maybe you can help solve some of those out for me instead of being mute... |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 23 minutes and 56 seconds ago. |
Feilos: Do you have a specific topic or question that was raised in those URL's? You listed 6 URL's and who knows how many points in your post. The first statement in your post was wrong (You claim the Bible says the world is flat) What exactly is the point you want to discuss? As somebody once said: Ask and ye shall receive. :-) [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/15/2002 at 18:32 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3966 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
What he said. Die Gedanken sind Frei [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/17/2002 at 20:50 (GMT -5) by Iridia] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 23 minutes and 56 seconds ago. |
. . . he. :-) |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3966 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
Happy now? Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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feilos Unregistered user |
the bible decieves and dumifies people who hold it as a true science, true historical reference. Wasn't it in the 1700-1800's the people believed the earth was flat solely on the bible. It's well known Solomon's temple is exaggrated... Two accounts of it's size differ in the bible... Scholars argue which book in the gospel was the best and accurate one even till today. Since they contrdict each other... Jesus himself wanted people to buy swords after his death...told his followers to not teach it to samartians (gentiles). The Jews are treated as Jesus' killers...for example by the nazis, lived in europe with distrust. anti-semitism etc... like pop. terms: "that's jewish!" People of this faith call ever other religion...satanic, worshipping the devil, idolatry etc... holding onto theology without questioning is blind faith... The good side: Real christians....socialible, honest and humble, understanding and caring. The bad: Waco, Heaven's Gate, Crusades, Inquistion, rape and child molestion in chruch, serving as brothels in russia etc... Don't cover your bad side...it's there. "Bad fruits don't sole good seeds" |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 23 minutes and 56 seconds ago. |
Feilos: Re Flat Earth No, the Bible does not say the Earth is flat. People thought it was flat because it looked flat. Why do you think it was because of the Bible? |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 23 minutes and 56 seconds ago. |
Feilos: Re Solomon's Temple: The bit about Solomon's Temple can't be that well known. I didn't know about it :-). Can you give a reference? Where does the Bible give two sizes? Can you give books and chapters? |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 23 minutes and 56 seconds ago. |
Feilos: Re: Jesus' teachings Where in the Bible does Jesus tell his followers to buy swords? I would have to read it before I could give you my interpretation. Jesus actually told his people they should teach Gentiles and Samaritans. RTFM [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/18/2002 at 11:34 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 23 minutes and 56 seconds ago. |
Feilos: Re Nazi treatment of Jews You should study History better. The Nazis killed the Jews because they thought the Jews (and Gypsies, Homosexuals, etc.) were inferior. It had nothing to do with Christians vs Jews. Hitler never claimed Jews were Christ Killers. He claimed that they weakened the culture. I have never even heard the term "that's Jewish" except when referring to Kosher foods. What is that term supposed to connote? I concede that there have been atrocities committed against the Jews (and others) where Christianity is used as the excuse, but you wanted to debate the Bible. Such actions are not espoused by the Bible. On an aside, IMHO, the people who committed such atrocities were acting out of self interest; had Religion not been available, they would have found some other excuse. (See my own obscenely long post in Religion God and all that Jazz on Jan 18) [Edited 3 times, last edit on 10/18/2002 at 11:42 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3966 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
Solomon's Temple was made of an Outer Court (a courtyard) and the actual Temple building. One measurement was of the whole thing, another was of the building. The "sword" reference is Luke 22:36-38... --begin quote-- 36He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’£ ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” 38The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That is enough,” he replied." --end quote-- Here we have Jesus using swords as a metaphor for his coming death... as usual, his disciples don't get it. They think he's actually telling them to go out and buy swords-- "Here, we have two already!" they say. Two among twelve is NOT preparation for actual physical warfare! Oh, I know it's cryptic, and I don't completely understand the passage, but it's not a command to go out and buy swords in order to do battle. If it were, Jesus wouldn've said something like, "Good, now go and buy ten more." But he didn't. Christians do call other religions "idolatry". The definition of "idolatry" means "worshipping something other than God". I don't think this is prejudiced. Christians (and I'm one of them) believe that the Bible is absolute truth. And if the Bible is true, then other religions are false. A scientist would say, "The law of gravity is true whether you believe it is or not"; a Christian would probably say the same about the Bible. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 23 minutes and 56 seconds ago. |
Iridia: Some Christians call other religions idolatry. For the most part, I (whom I consider Christian) do not. Personally, I think there are as many Christian idolaters as non-Christian idolaters -- People who put wealth, power, social standing, etc. (even family) above God. Some Christians believe the Bible is the absolute truth. I (whom I consider Christian) do not. IMHO, God is the only absolute truth within this world. I think the Bible contains the spirit or God's word ("spirit" as in the underlying meaning; I am not using the supernatural definition") but I do not believe it contains God's vebatim word. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 23 minutes and 56 seconds ago. |
Re: Swords Thanks, Iridia, for the passage reference. Feilos: What is your issue with and interpretation of this passage? If you read the passages before and after, IMHO, Jesus essentially says: "The prophesies say people will consider my followers transgressors. Go get a couple swords so that you can be considered transgressors, thus fulfilling the prophesies. Oh, we already have some swords? Cool." Later, when one of his followers actually uses a sword, Jesus gives a rebuke, and heals the damage caused by the sword. Am I the only one suddenly picturing Jesus with a papyrus check list ("Transgrssors; Check . . . I need a cloak they can draw lots for; Check . . .) :-) |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3966 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
Re: Idolatry Oh, yeah. Defintely. There are a lot of Christians who are idolaters, worshipping money or social position or even themselves. It's a sin, of course; and it's just as bad (and useless) as going out and worshipping the nearest potted plant. Re: Bible as absolute truth. Our Bible is a translation, Caladriel, so it's not going to be word-for-word anyway. But in my opinion, the translation is quite accurate, so concepts are there, undistorted, and they're the word of God. LOL... check lists... :) Jesus was quite aware that he was fulfilling prophecy, I think. Not that he made it happen, because most of them were quite beyond his control. But it's still kinda funny. :) Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 23 minutes and 56 seconds ago. |
Re: Idolatry I also think praying to a potted plant is useless. However, I do not think I can say the same of a Muslim or Jew who prays to God (Allah, Jehovah) Even the Hindus, according to their beliefs, pray to gods who are simply aspects of a single supreme being. My reasoning is as follows: I do not believe my understanding of God is perfect. I am sure that there are aspects of my faith which are incorrect. In spite of this, I believe that my prayrs to God are worthwhile. If my flawed prayrs (or prayrs with my flawed beliefs) are worthwhile, how can I know that somebody else's prayrs are worthless, even if I think their understanding of God is even more incorrect than mine? Is your belief flawless? Do you have a complete and perfect understanding of God? [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/22/2002 at 12:20 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Tekki Registered user Last page view: 7554 days, 23 hours, 47 minutes and 40 seconds ago. |
Muslims do not pray to the same god as us...if you would read up on Islam you will see their concept is much different from ours. I don't believe that is Iridia's point...I believe she is simply trying to not be a unitarian type of person in which it's your individual perception of what you call "god" that matters. It's a more humanistic approach and I think she's trying to avoid that. You feel a surge of power. Suddenly your extraordinary carrying capacity fails you. You are crushed by the tons of luggage you are carrying. You die... Go here when you are on the forum to chat about Adom! http://koti.mbnet.fi/adrakon/chat.shtml |
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