Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / General / ADOM and Relationships
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7379 days, 17 hours, 22 minutes and 33 seconds ago. |
I'm afraid I'm pulling out of this discussion. Differences of views are based on firmly held assumptions that seem to get in the way of any real exploration of the issue. One last question though, for Caladriel: I think I believe the same things as you do to a certain extent, but choose to instead say that in my heart I hold 'a sense of moral rightness'" and I act the way I do because of that. Would you wish to convert me to the view that that moral rightness is 'God' (something I will never do), or would you be content to know that I am of a like mind, but a similar view? If I know right from wrong and can live a life that is good and benificial to myself and those around be, what matter if I choose not to call this life one of God, but rather one of my own? |
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 Arancaytar Registered user Pyromancer Last page view: 779 days, 9 hours, 39 minutes and 43 seconds ago. |
Too bad I missed most of this discussion, but there's still a point I wish to make. Lavos, as far as I understand it, you quoted a 'converted' Evolutionist that has turned to creationism. He bases his decision on the - disputable - fact that many others have also done so. I say disputable because evolution is today taught in schools as a standard (except for in those weird countries in the southern US that they call the Bible Belt). More people today agree to evolutionism rather than creationism. In any case, no matter what the majority of the people believe in, that does not make it correct: 1000 years ago, all people believed the Earth was flat. Today we know with 100% certainty it is a sphere. Unless the Earth has curled up in the last 300 years, it must have been a sphere at that point already. So everyone believed something that was wrong. Whether more people agree with evolution or with creationism has nothing to do with which is correct. Move the cursor to the desired position and press [SPACE] when done. Impossible. Suddenly you stand elsewhere. You see an ancient altar of black obsidian. The goblin rockthrower suddenly shouts a prayer to his gods! You are consumed by a roaring column of flame! |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7307 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes and 55 seconds ago. |
The point i was making, which was obviously missed, is that many people (a majority, a large amount, a lot, more than a few) after they actually look into a religion, find that it makes a lot more sense than everyone seems to think. All i was saying (or asking) was if Lamaros had ever actually read the Bible, when he was talking about it. And, im sure there will be many more posts about this, as very well said in the thread 'any reason' I wasnt trying to make a point about how many people were religious, i was trying to show how many people are not religious, because they dont know a lot about it. As for the evolution thing in school. This one bugs me a lot. This is where majority does matter. I know, for a fact, that most kids at school age, are religious, in some way. Now, im not saying only Christianity should be taught, because their are a lot of different religions. I think they should at least teach the major religions too (even though there are a lot of mormon people around here, not one of my favorite things to talk about.) One last thing, you said that: "1000 years ago, everyone thought the earth was flat." Then you go on to say: "so everyone thought something that was wrong. Very True. Before you said all of that you said: "More people today agree to evolutionism rather than creationism." Does that mean we're simply going to find out in the future that something is wrong with that? (: |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7307 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes and 55 seconds ago. |
Damn, sorry. I messed up with that 20 line rule. =P (: |
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Andor Drakon Registered user uummm... ElDeR cHaOs GoD? Last page view: 7511 days, 11 hours, 13 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
Just because everyone thinks something is right does not mean that it is, as in the world being flat. Just because everyone thinks something is right, does not mean that it isn't, as in evolution. Because most people who look in the Bible find that religon makes more sense than reality, that only says that religon appeals to them more. IN other words, science presents a view of the world that is very complicated and hard to understand, and because of this appears unlikely. On the other hand religon produces a very simplistic view of the world and is seen as more likely. This is, of course, not nessecarialy true. ChAoS iS cOmInG! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3966 days, 14 hours, 57 minutes and 48 seconds ago. |
I dunno, I think the Bible and science can coexist quite nicely... *opens up large can of worms* Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7307 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes and 55 seconds ago. |
lol! yep. (: [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/24/2003 at 20:34 (GMT -5) by Lavos] |
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Andor Drakon Registered user uummm... ElDeR cHaOs GoD? Last page view: 7511 days, 11 hours, 13 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
well, yes, um... *wishes he had something to say* ChAoS iS cOmInG! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3966 days, 14 hours, 57 minutes and 48 seconds ago. |
Heh. We might as well table that discussion until we're all good and ready to go wading into it again. As for me, I'm going to go kill off a few more dwarven barbarians and ignore religious debate for a while. *g* Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 35 minutes and 18 seconds ago. |
C: I was referring to your P.S. where you say God does not kill us. If you believe the Bible, then God killed the first born of all the Egyptians. Therefore, the [ancient] Egytians might disagree with your P.S. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 35 minutes and 18 seconds ago. |
Lavos: Re: Life How has it been scientifically proven that humans cannot create life? I think that all you can say is that we have not created life yet (although we are getting close) Re: Believers vs Non-Believers I would agree that many atheists have never studied the Bible or Christianity in depth, but then, many atheists have. I think you will have a difficult time making any pertinant point from this. After all, I assume you are neither Buddhist nor Muslim nor Hindu, but how much have you studied those religions? Re: Evolution in school Because of the separation of Church and State, I do not think they can (nor do I think they should) teach the creation stories of any religion in school. If they teach the "major" religions, is that not discriminating against the "minor" ones? |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 35 minutes and 18 seconds ago. |
Lamaros: If you make such a point of letting us know you are pulling out of the discussion, then I assume you will not be reading this or any other posts. If such is the case, what is the point of my answering your question? :-P~ Still, on the chance you do read this, I will give you a hint and a(nother) jibe: For somebody who claims we just rehash the same ideas over and over, you do not seem to let the repetition of ideas sink in -- my earlier posts in this thread should tell you what I think one of the dangers would be if you had yourself as the center and foundation of your life. :-P~ x 2 [Edited 2 times, last edit on 8/25/2003 at 11:29 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3966 days, 14 hours, 57 minutes and 48 seconds ago. |
Re: Creating life. It's not theoretically impossible to create life... if you count mutating, multiplying computer viruses, we've already done it. But sentient life at our own level? That's probably impossible, or at least a very long way off. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4908 days, 35 minutes and 18 seconds ago. |
Iridia: Re: Sentient Life True, but if you believe in Big-Bang type evolution instead of seven day creationism, then it took a while the first time, too. :-) |
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Arancaytar- Unregistered user |
There seem to be few topics that attract such vigorous discussion as religion vs. science does. This thread is actually surprisingly factual, most discussions about this tend to degrade to a mass of insults after a while. |
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SolidSnake Unregistered user |
Quite. |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3966 days, 14 hours, 57 minutes and 48 seconds ago. |
Maybe RPG players tend to be more intelligent than most people? RPGs do take strategy. This forum is really one of the most non-hot-headed that I've seen in a long time. I guess, after losing your umpteenth promising character, you eventually learn to keep your temper :) Die Gedanken sind Frei [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/25/2003 at 18:23 (GMT -5) by Iridia] |
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lavos- notlogged Unregistered user |
RE: caladriel: schools Evolution can be a religion too (or a belief) so why discriminate against others? I have studied all of those religions (Buddhism, Muslim, and Hindu) in school. I spent most of 6th grade doing those kinds of religions. I didnt have a problem with it, because I studied Christianty, evolution, and many other things. It doesnt mean i agree with them, and no teachers ever took sides and said (or implied) that "____ is right." They just taught. Now i dont see a problem with that. |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7307 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes and 55 seconds ago. |
Yeah, i thought loosing a level five PC was devastating when i first started. Now after loosing great PCs to things like CoRrUpTiOn and not even having it bother me (except for you, you great human fighter! :P) Ive seen a lot of patience in these forums and im very suprised. i think i was the most impatient one. All i have to do now is convince my parents of this. (: [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/25/2003 at 20:03 (GMT -5) by Lavos] |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7379 days, 17 hours, 22 minutes and 33 seconds ago. |
Bring on the insults, I say. Caladriel: I take your 3 :-P's and raise you a :-) I'm not going to say anything that will give rise to discussion, but I will still read. As for your answer; I thought perhaps that was the case, but some of your later post had given me cause to hope otherwise. :-) I don't really think RPG players tend to be smarter than others, and as I don't agree with everyone's comments here, I don't think RPG players who like to talk about Religion are specificly smarter either. But it might be that we're all quite respectful. (None of this is meant to actually be insulting. If you find yourself feeling such, I apologize.) |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7379 days, 17 hours, 22 minutes and 33 seconds ago. |
Oh, I just can't help myself: Lavos: Evolution most certainly is a belief. It is not a religion though, not in the terms that most people (and we all pride ourselves on democracy, no?) would label such. I spent every year at school doing Religious Education, (which was just Christian Education actually), and I did have a problem with such. And so did many of my peers. I cannot remember any student who had such trouble in science though. The problem is, schools tell children what to think and believe (religion, science, what a book means, what to think), they don't offer information on a plate and let them choose. It's unfortunate, but it's the way the current system works. Then again.. Maybe they do this because most people need to have things forced upon them to believe them and they get lost if they aren't presented with something definate to believe in. :-) [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/25/2003 at 20:29 (GMT -5) by Lamaros] |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7307 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes and 55 seconds ago. |
I think its more the teachers than the school. I like it when they do let you decide what you think is best, no matter what religion they are. I dont think its bad for them to say what their opinion is, just dont say that only one is right, and everyone else is wrong. Cheers to insults! (: |
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C<U> Unregistered user |
I don't believe *certain* (some parts are good) parts of the bible, I think whoever(s) wrote it just looked at the events at the time (what I think)/ or God didn't kill them directly he just set something up that could be possibly lethal. Back to the bible thing, somethings are sensible, but I think that people who wrote it wanted God to look tough like the other Gods of the time so they would say "whoa look at that guy let's convert" or that's what they thought. |
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lavos-notlogged Unregistered user |
"whoa look at that guy let's convert" lol *dude!* |
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C Registered user Last page view: 6504 days, 6 hours, 18 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
Crappie, how he's mighty and strong like his Gods and offers alot, for little, but not to abuse him. On the bible; (*questions*) How can we be sure it is the word of the prophets and God's plans? (How can we be sure it is really them?) How can we sure of certain things (creation taking 7 days... who knew this, did God tell some dude? It never says who or what he told) I think science and the bible probably could coexist quite nicely (maybe 7 days God's time, or someone got the date wrong) maybe whoever wrote it wasn't supposed to state it because it would cause somesort of chaos? Then on God being a smiter (some things for and against it) If God is such a smiter why does he allow freedom of will? Or if he is such a smiter why did he let Devil rebel? Why did he get a savior for humanity? Allow bad people to become rich? Or for it Why do bad things happen (that goes under the varibles God set up)? Why doesn't God care References in the bible Karma? |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7307 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes and 55 seconds ago. |
RE: smiter: once Jesus was killed there was no need for God to punish so harshly for our sins. (as i think Iridia said earlier.) And as for your 'why does God let bad things happen question, i said something like this earlier. I think God made the world, and the things in it, in a way that they would all work together. kinda like dominoes, except a lot more complicated and there are several things going on at once, not just a straight line. Thats just my opinion. Now for my crazy comparisons, that never seem to work or make sense, but always make some kind of point, even if its just that im an idiot. Here it is: Now close your eyes for a minute..... Im serious; close them. Wait....... you wont be able to see this if you do, n/m. Ok now that i have your attenetion, i want you to imagine a world with no pain, no hurt, no feeling, no risk, no love.... nothing. imagine yourself completely enclosed in a barrior (sp?) or lets call it some moloch armour. You cant move, feel, or do anything. Having fun? I hope you are, because if there was no such thing as pain, you could never be scared on roller coasters, you could never love anyone (love hurts, after all) and if you had no pain, you would have no feeling, and there would be no heros, no risk, nothing that could involve pain. Now, do you think thats a world God would really want you to live in, or a world you want to live in? I know i dont. I know your thinking that this is just a normal answer that you could go to any church for ten minutes and here, but now if you close your eyes really imagine it. As for God not caring, i dont know where you got that idea. He sent Jesus to die on the cross for us. Now would you do that if you didnt care? You might even be thinking of deaths of loved ones as the bad thing your thinking of. Sometimes loses are necessary. Ive lost people too, i think we all have. And its hard, but i can still make it. (: [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/25/2003 at 23:34 (GMT -5) by Lavos] |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7307 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes and 55 seconds ago. |
UGH! 20 line thing. SORRY! (: |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7379 days, 17 hours, 22 minutes and 33 seconds ago. |
Let me get this straight hen Lavos: You'll thank me for killing your parents, should I do such, because without my wonderful sacrafice you'd not be able to experience the heights of love and loss that exist in the world? 'God does/allows evil because without evil we'd not be able to appreciate all the good things he has created too!' Sounds like God's fishing for compliments. *ducks* |
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Lavos Registered user Cardiovascular Endurance Last page view: 7307 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes and 55 seconds ago. |
thats twisting it a lot. and when did i say, 'God does/allows evil because without evil we'd not be able to appreciate all the good things he has created too!' Well in no way am i saying these losses are good, but they happen, and without them the world would not work. And you wouldnt kill my parents, i dont think, another part of the dominoe thing, (which now that i look at it, doesnt sound the way i thought it would, but its close enough) that they will go when they are supposed to. I would in no way thank you, i wouldnt want my parents to be killed, ever. But i know its gonna happen, and hopefully it will not be by your hand. everyday we experience the 'heights of love and loss that exist in the world'. im not saying i need more. But C was saying 'why do they happen?' and i was saying, 'because what would we be without them'. Not 'because its fun'. (: |
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Lamaros Registered user The sieve Last page view: 7379 days, 17 hours, 22 minutes and 33 seconds ago. |
I think you're failing to recognise the consequences of your example, but so be it. |
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