Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / ADOM / Puritans
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Palagran Registered user Furry Hybrid Last page view: 6365 days, 1 hour, 21 minutes and 7 seconds ago. |
I define the ADOM Puritan as the player who does not cheat or scum in any way for any reason. I'd like to know why they don't back up their save files in case of an accident. Unforeseeable crashes like 291's and power failures aren't cause to destroy a character outright. I ask this because I have seen a few people who take great pains to act on this practice. There is someone on the newsgroup whose goal in ADOM is to create a wizard who can cast Wish freely. After months of playing, he finally creates a wizard who might be able to accomplish this, when he's hit with a 291. He didn't backup his file, and seems proud of it, besides upset. This philosophy intrigues me. It's either greatly noble or immensely stupid. :P I believe the things that kill a PC other than something functional in ADOM are things outside the boundaries of the game, and thus can be recovered without guilt. What do you think? |
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Amanda Sedai Registered user Last page view: 7926 days, 19 hours, 1 minute and 13 seconds ago. |
I agree, backing up the file isn't scumming. But then, maybe I'm not someone who should be voicing an opinion on this topic. If people who never do anything even slightly resembling scumming are considered Puritans, then I'm about to be burned at the stake for being a witch. I probably scum more than any other ADOM player. -Amanda Sedai, a save-scumming newbie. (Hey, at least I saved that little girl's dog. Gimme some credit... ;-)) |
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Duke Ravage Registered user Gravebane Zombie Last page view: 5666 days, 11 hours, 42 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
the only reason i'll ever scum is if i'm trying to get high weapon skills. go figure tho, the char of mine w/ the higest weapon skills didn't scum except on accident (got trapped in the gremlin cave, lost track of the exit). y'know, in that kind of situation i've decided it's usefull to light the exit in some way weather by scroll or spell, so you can't lose it. ivan.sourceforge.net |
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Duke Ravage Registered user Gravebane Zombie Last page view: 5666 days, 11 hours, 42 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
i also scum if i'm bored and want to play around (or if i'm just really really desprate to win... which i never have...) ivan.sourceforge.net |
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Ekaterin Moderator on this forum Last page view: 5769 days, 5 hours, 13 minutes and 46 seconds ago. |
Why I won't save-scum: if I backed up a good character to protect against irrevocable game crashes, and she then got killed (fairly, by something in ADOM), I might not be able to resist restoring her. Since I play on a laptop a power failure won't kill me; the laptop will just switch to battery power. What's a 291? Is it a Windows error (I use Linux)? |
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Palagran Registered user Furry Hybrid Last page view: 6365 days, 1 hour, 21 minutes and 7 seconds ago. |
Signal 291 is a common unrecoverable fatal game crash in v1.0.0. |
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Duke Ravage Registered user Gravebane Zombie Last page view: 5666 days, 11 hours, 42 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
i've never noticed it. what do you have to do to get one? ivan.sourceforge.net |
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Jack Unregistered user |
I've been a "Puritan" for most of my ADOM career <G> and have yet to win one. Seems that PC and VD get VERY hard when higher levels. 9th level GE Archer just killed by a Doppelganger Lord, but I saw a buttload of vortices and werewolfs. |
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Palagran Registered user Furry Hybrid Last page view: 6365 days, 1 hour, 21 minutes and 7 seconds ago. |
I don't know. It seems to happen randomly. I just had one in ToEF. I think it has something to do with equipment destruction with non-PC's. |
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Mishka Registered user Hopeless Last page view: 6123 days, 49 minutes and 18 seconds ago. |
i backup my files for one (the one where i play adom)of our computers crashes very very often... too bad i can't get any backup programs (do you want to send error message to microsoft? *laughing*) to work in xp so, i'm running out of luck all the time. "Faugh!" snorted Tahngarth. "Why would it make a meal out of something like you?" Squee looked relieved. "No," he continued, "you'd make a much better toothpick." |
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Amanda Sedai Registered user Last page view: 7926 days, 19 hours, 1 minute and 13 seconds ago. |
I was writing a report about the Internet yesterday, and just as I mentioned Microsoft's monopoly, I got that error message. "This program must terminate for an undetermined reason. Would you like us to send the message to Microsoft?" They're spying on me... ;-P -Amanda Sedai, a save-scumming newbie. (Hey, at least I saved that little girl's dog. Gimme some credit... ;-)) |
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Palagran Registered user Furry Hybrid Last page view: 6365 days, 1 hour, 21 minutes and 7 seconds ago. |
Amanda: Heh. I wouldn't put it past them. ;) |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 14 hours, 32 minutes and 15 seconds ago. |
Yeah... Windows XP is nice, fast and stable and all that (or so I hear), but it's licence agreement show and increasing arrogance on the part of Microsoft, and is one of the major reasons I have actualy installed Linux on my old computer. I figure knowledge of an alternative OS will come in handy as more and more companies realise that paying M$ tonnes of money each mounth just to be allowed to use theyr OS is not the only option... Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Arion Registered user Last page view: 7898 days, 21 hours, 5 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
Palagran said: "I define the ADOM Puritan as the player who does not cheat or scum in any way for any reason.... It's either greatly noble or immensely stupid." Yup, that's me immensely proud and greatly stupid... No wait, it's the other way around :D I don't backup games for any reason. The game was meant to be played that way. And what do you know, I've even beaten the game once. But the most memorable things are those stupid deaths. Aaah the memories... 32 lvl gray elven wizard enters the casino shop naked. He's only got one blessed scroll of identify on him and a blessed girdle of carrying. He's cast Strength of Atlas on himself and he's going to pick up every single item in the shop and then identify them. He enters the shop and lo, behold there comes a master mimic ready to do battle with our hero. The hero thinks: "Hmm, master mimic. I've killed few of those before, no worries. I'm gonna kill it barehanded!" First round of battle: master mimic hits you, you suddenly can't move and so on and so on... You have died. Do you want to see the last messages? No, no, nooooo... "No more shiny ones. Oh well, back to lurking I guesses." |
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J. Unregistered user |
Hm... I prefer playing fair, no pool scumming (not that it helps, mostly I get cursed/doomed, get teleportitis, lose TC or get pile of snakes), no bugville, though I like using the casino (if possible) to get loadsa money for training/offering. And sometimes use the birthdate abuse... |
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Palagran Registered user Furry Hybrid Last page view: 6365 days, 1 hour, 21 minutes and 7 seconds ago. |
The update planned for the next version will make stat scumming nearly useless. I'm anxious for the next release. |
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Duke Ravage Registered user Gravebane Zombie Last page view: 5666 days, 11 hours, 42 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
who isn't? *g* ivan.sourceforge.net |
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Tha Messiah Registered user Angel of Death Last page view: 7780 days, 21 hours, 40 minutes and 45 seconds ago. |
Err this might sound dumb but what do ya mean by The update planned for the next version will make stat scumming nearly useless. THE MESSIAH,I'm here now,Worship me. |
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Locke Registered user Treasure hunter Last page view: 7902 days, 7 hours, 4 minutes and 21 seconds ago. |
Being a Puritan can be VERY annoying sometimes. Example: Dwarven barbarien on D:50, completely surrounded by Fisty and his balor friends = dead dwarf. But on the other hand, completing the game three times without scumming or cheating in any way feels *very* nice. :) Locke Cole |
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Palagran Registered user Furry Hybrid Last page view: 6365 days, 1 hour, 21 minutes and 7 seconds ago. |
Locke: If you don't restore the game, would it feel as good if you backed up in case of emergency only? The Messiah: In the next version, the game will not always give stat increases from eaten corpses. It will sometimes, based on some kind of formula. He said it'll take thousands (millions?) of greater claw bug corpses to get DX to 99. This is somewhere on the newsgroup, and I think on the official site as an RFE. My memory's hazy at the moment. I celebrated Thanksgiving the right way! :D |
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Locke Registered user Treasure hunter Last page view: 7902 days, 7 hours, 4 minutes and 21 seconds ago. |
Backing up in case of emergency? Yeah well, when I have a backup I feel safe from crashes and such. But if I then need to use the backup due to crash, it feels slightly... less nice to countinue playing with the backup. I don't backup my characters much nowadays since 1.0.0 *very* rarely crashes for me. The signal 291 have only occured for me once so far. So I don't lose my characters to events other than in-game ones really. And if I do, I'll be mad about it for a while and then move on. :) Locke Cole |
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John The Pawn Registered user Last page view: 8163 days, 21 hours, 48 minutes and 5 seconds ago. |
Heh. Ummm, yeah. What's scumming? I know of the Greater Claw Bugs but I stay away from there since my 2nd highest character got mauled by three Killer bugs while invisible. My highest character just got lost to a unrecoverable system crash while in the ToEF. I was Lvl 21 High Elf/Wizard. Pissed me off 'cause I had dipped some brass rings into a blesses PoE and ended up with 5 RoDS. Damn errors... John The Pawn Supreme Ruler of All Things Flammable |
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 Dougy Registered user What is the deal with cards? Last page view: 5833 days, 12 hours, 29 minutes and 23 seconds ago. |
"Scumming" is just an inverse-euphamism (is there a word for that?) for "levelling", or building up your charactor. The gremlin cave was deliberatly put in adom for training weapon skills. They die easy enough, and it's hard to safely kill more then 3000. Bug Temple was also put in the game to deliberately increase dex/speed. I agree it should of been reduced, but it's part of v1 and it should be taken advantage of. And you'd be foolish if you didn't. Wishing for unique <spoily> monsters that instead summons many of it's bretheren could be considered scumming. Other forms of scumming - breeders (worms/claw bugs/chaos spawn), doom + wilderness, infinite dungeon level hopping, wands of monster creation on DH:2, Wishing for ancient karmic wyrms and death raying, star sign scumming, actually choosing a sex/race/class, using survival in the wilderness while bloated, not immediately killing a summoner, gambling at the casino, waiting for a blink dog to summon, using the teleportation traps to find the wand in the dusty dungeon, giving a large number of potions to yaggaz, writing scrolls of education, training, competing in the arena. The list goes on and on. "I define the ADOM Puritan as the player who does not cheat or scum in any way for any reason" - that would make the game very hard, how would you ever get crowned or find an AoLS? How would you find that giant boar skull or scroll of danger? How would you complete the ancient dwarf quests? If something can be done in the game, it should be atleast taken on board as an option. I believe any unnatural restoration and backuping of charactors is cheating. (bar the emergency save). The only time i backup a charactor is when their one square away from leaving the drakalor chain, so i can muck around later with them with my cheat version of adom. In short - ADOM is a game designed for scumming, thus i don't consider it cheating. Backing up saved games for any reason is obviously cheating and is recognised as such. Even if it crashes, restoring the game is cheating because information can be gathered between the save and the crash. eg. Oh thats right i ended up on 1hp after i entered the fire temple, lets not do that again. Oh and i was only one goblin away from extremely close. DougyDougy - Dougy - DougyDougy |
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Hassinen Registered user Last page view: 8157 days, 20 hours, 7 minutes and 11 seconds ago. |
What's so special about scrolls of education that writing them is scumming? Oh and choosing sex/race/class? You think it should be removed from the game so that all your characters would be totally random? If something can go wrong, it will. |
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Locke Registered user Treasure hunter Last page view: 7902 days, 7 hours, 4 minutes and 21 seconds ago. |
Adom is designed for one purpose, and one purpose only: To have fun. How one achieve to have fun is up to each and everyone of us. IMHO of course. :) Locke Cole |
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Dougy Registered user What is the deal with cards? Last page view: 5833 days, 12 hours, 29 minutes and 23 seconds ago. |
It could be considered scumming, writing scrolls of education have been balanced in the next version, bad affect in return. Well in real life you don't get to choose your sex/race, and class is usually a result of your surrounds. No, i don't think it should be removed but i believe that it is possible to consider that a form of scumming. DougyDougy - Dougy - DougyDougy |
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 Akron Registered user Alcoholic Last page view: 8077 days, 22 hours, 37 minutes and 49 seconds ago. |
The bottom line is that "scumming" isn't cheating so anyone can scum as much as they want. I usually build up my characters in the ID so that they won't die too early. I don't consider that as "scumming". If everything you is considered "scumming" maybe I should play that Kiernsian play style challenge where you can't get use any other stuff except gold, rocks and gems. Scum as much as you like but don't cheat. Choosing your sex/race/class is scumming??!! Come on, don't be ridiculous. "Cruel Akron, bloody bastard I now spit on you. You can turn my bones to black ash but I will move the moon. I will light your evil kingdom and your heart will burn in flames. Mutilated or dismembered, we'll soon rise to eat your brains! -Warrior of Ice" |
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Duke Ravage Registered user Gravebane Zombie Last page view: 5666 days, 11 hours, 42 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
try beating it (or even getting very far) by only carrying corpses, rocks, sticks and Spoiler very hard. the orbs. ivan.sourceforge.net |
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Dougy Registered user What is the deal with cards? Last page view: 5833 days, 12 hours, 29 minutes and 23 seconds ago. |
I don't think it's considered spoilers to say what items are in the game... it's a spoiler to say how it's used, or what it does, or how to get it. (unless it's obvious, or mentioned in the adom manual, like seven league boots) ps. that's a filthy photo arkon - and by saying that choosing sex/race/class could be considered scumming, i'm using the most extreme case i could think of. ps2. Sir Gerbalot, Gerbil Smurf, Old McGerbil. Hrmm... i wonder how they actually came about. (not a question - ner ner) DougyDougy - Dougy - DougyDougy |
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Akron Registered user Alcoholic Last page view: 8077 days, 22 hours, 37 minutes and 49 seconds ago. |
Of course those ADOM puritans(I don't know how many of those exist) can do what they want and restrict their "scumming" as much as they like. If they consider that it is fun. Or if they are playing ADOM for some other reasons than fun maybe they should get a life. But I'm sure none of you is true ADOM puritan here which is very good. I think it's OK to make a backup save because I've noticed that v1.00 isn't that stable. I've had three crashes in v1.00 and one of them was signal291, just couple of hours ago. I don't know about other two, one happened when I was in ToEF with trollish barbarian. I tried to (l)ook at the item pile on the floor when message "could not create item" appeared and screen scrolled down with lot of text in it. I think the last one was somekind of duplicate artifact error, but can't say for sure. I've lost a couple of L50 PCs in the mana temple because of Nuurag-Vaarn's Death Ray and my own stupidity, and that bugs me a lot 'cause I've gotten so far already. But when I lose promising L12 PC who has just found 7LBoots due to some error that just makes me more frustrated and makes me think is ADOM worth it? (Of course it is.) "Cruel Akron, bloody bastard I now spit on you. You can turn my bones to black ash but I will move the moon. I will light your evil kingdom and your heart will burn in flames. Mutilated or dismembered, we'll soon rise to eat your brains! -Warrior of Ice" |
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