Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / ADOM / Another stupid question
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Amanda Sedai Registered user Last page view: 7925 days and 21 minutes ago. |
You would think that, since I've been playing ADOM for about four months now, I would have tried to find out about this sooner, but what do the numbers and letters next to weapons and skills mean? (like 1d3+1 or something). -Amanda Sedai, a save-scumming newbie. (Hey, at least I saved that little girl's dog. Gimme some credit... ;-)) |
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Duke Ravage Registered user Gravebane Zombie Last page view: 5664 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes and 7 seconds ago. |
LMAO you haven't figured that out yet?! man you are a noob. no offence or nething... ok next to weapons, thats the damage they deal. basicly 1d3+1 tells the computer to randomly pick a # between 1 and 3, then add one to it. 3d3+1 would tell it to randomly pick 3 #s between 1 and 3, add them, then add one. for skills it's the same, except the result is what's added to your skill. ivan.sourceforge.net |
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Amanda Sedai Registered user Last page view: 7925 days and 21 minutes ago. |
Ok, thanks. :-) But I would think twice before laughing at me. I may be a newbie, but I'm a trollish newbie with a big club. ;-P Me beat up elves. -Amanda Sedai, a save-scumming newbie. (Hey, at least I saved that little girl's dog. Gimme some credit... ;-)) |
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Palagran Registered user Furry Hybrid Last page view: 6363 days, 6 hours, 40 minutes and 54 seconds ago. |
So you understand now? It's in the manual too. 2d4-1 = 1-7 1d7 = 1-7 2d3 = 2-6 3d2+4 = 7-10 2d3+4 = 6-10 The first number plus/minus the third number is the minimum. Multiply the first and second numbers and add/subtract the third number for the maximum. That's how I do it. [Edited at 11:00, Sunday, November 18, 2001 by Palagran] |
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Amanda Sedai Registered user Last page view: 7925 days and 21 minutes ago. |
Okay, another noob question: what does the number before all that mean? Like, if a weapon is "+1 2d3+4" then what's the +1 mean? -Amanda Sedai, a save-scumming newbie. (Hey, at least I saved that little girl's dog. Gimme some credit... ;-)) |
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Hassinen Registered user Last page view: 8156 days, 1 hour, 26 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
Yay, I'm not the n00best of all! =) no offense Amanda... The + or - before the damage dice indicates the to-hit modifior on the weapon. So a long sword +2 1d8 hit's a bit better than a long sword -1 1d8. You can compare the weapons with 'W' or '@' if you have a different level of proficiensy(sp?) with them. If something can go wrong, it will. |
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Amanda Sedai Registered user Last page view: 7925 days and 21 minutes ago. |
Thanks. :-) And trust me, if Newbie were an alignment, I would be crowned Champion. -Amanda Sedai, a save-scumming newbie. (Hey, at least I saved that little girl's dog. Gimme some credit... ;-)) |
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Duke Ravage Registered user Gravebane Zombie Last page view: 5664 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes and 7 seconds ago. |
hehe! *g* ivan.sourceforge.net |
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Amanda Sedai Registered user Last page view: 7925 days and 21 minutes ago. |
Who are you laughing at, Mr. My-character-died-of-starvation-because-I-forgot-to-feed-him? ;-) -Amanda Sedai, a save-scumming newbie. (Hey, at least I saved that little girl's dog. Gimme some credit... ;-)) |
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Duke Ravage Registered user Gravebane Zombie Last page view: 5664 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes and 7 seconds ago. |
LMAO!!! *g* *g* well um... *embarrassed grin* well i THOUGHT my character had enough food, geuss i should have cleaned out the ratling traders... *g* Plus i was counting on corpses. ivan.sourceforge.net |
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Ekaterin Moderator on this forum Last page view: 5767 days, 10 hours, 33 minutes and 33 seconds ago. |
My newbie question about the xdy stuff next to skills is why it is that some skills can only be advanced by 1d3 and others can be advanced by 4d5, and how to improve these modifiers. My Drakish Wizard is having to advance useless skills like Haggling, Music and Ventriloquism because all her other skills which aren't maxed out have a modifier of 1d5 or less and so aren't worth advancing. |
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Jadejag Unregistered user |
i guess it depends on what kind of character u are |
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Stone block of wrath Registered user Last page view: 8174 days, 20 hours, 51 minutes and 50 seconds ago. |
thank you, I had no idea what they mean, i just hit with themm Most Pathetic Death: Buddy, The level 1 human farmer, got his head smashed by a stone block on level 1 of some ancient caves. He did not vanquish any monsters. He was lawfully aligned |
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Duke Ravage Registered user Gravebane Zombie Last page view: 5664 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes and 7 seconds ago. |
haggling is *not* useless. IMO ventriliquism is the most usless skill in the game, but no skill is completly useless. neways, the more times you enhance a skill the lower that mod goes. but sometimes when you level up the mods get better, and by training w/ some ppl IIRC the mods also get better. ivan.sourceforge.net |
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Amanda Sedai Registered user Last page view: 7925 days and 21 minutes ago. |
Haggling is very useful at high levels, but if it isn't high you can end up raising the prices. -Amanda Sedai, a save-scumming newbie. (Hey, at least I saved that little girl's dog. Gimme some credit... ;-)) |
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Duke Ravage Registered user Gravebane Zombie Last page view: 5664 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes and 7 seconds ago. |
exactly... so upping it isn't pointless. ivan.sourceforge.net |
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Mist_Jonne Registered user Last page view: 6288 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes and 15 seconds ago. |
low level spellcaster, (just like the confusion blast for the mindcrafter). I play wizards more than I play all other classes together, so I know... Mastering the art of using ventriloquism however is tricky. I use ventriloquism to confuse single monsters so that I can run/berserk/recharge power or use items in fights. The single power point you get by distracting your foo can be vital sometimes. A wizard vith ventriloquism on skill value 100 have got the ability to flee (or fight) a better. (A mean, doppleganger lords aren't easy to kill with a troll, are they?) By the way... Bridge building is not a very good skill... Killing someone is always a winning argument... |
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ej Unregistered user |
ventriloquism at 100 is GGGRRREEAT!!! monster can be confused for several turns and then killed in whatever way you plan. also you can apply it several times on one monster and it will stay confused for more turns. It works on a lot of powerfull monsters, like the temple guardians,eternalguardian,ender chaos gods, could you name me one where it doesnt work? only undeads are immuum to it and maybe constucts. it's almost cheating! however with little points in the skill it doesnt work very good and you will have to train it before you can level it up to 100, but most players dont, so they keep thinking its crappy. |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5143 days, 10 hours, 52 minutes and 36 seconds ago. |
Someone asked about skill advances: Well I do not how they are set at the start of the game, but every time you increase a skill over a multiple of 10 (i.e. from 68 - 73) the skill-learning-dice go down a notch. Best is 4d5, then 3d5, then 3d4, then 3d3, 2d4. Then you hit 1d5, 1d5 (again), 1d3, 1d3 (once more) then + 1. Every levelup you have a random chance (influenced by how much you use it I think) of increasing these dice again (Like "your listening skill improves from 3d4 to 4d4"). Automatic skill increases (from using skills) will also make dice go down, its not just when you level up. (Auto-skill-increase also uses the same dicefor calculating) The master thief in Lawinthehowl can be paid to increase the dice for his 6 skills, (t)heoretic training. And the die system is typical of all RPGs, and actually a very good wy to simulate various weapons characteristic. (1d7) will give numbers from 1-7. (2d4 - 1) will also give 1-7, BUT you will see more 3,4,5 than 1,2,6,7. So its a weapon that gives more reliable, average damage. A 1d99 weapon has mean damage of 50. So has a 25d3 weapon. First would hit 1% for a measly 1 damage. Second would hit 0,000000000003 % for 1 damage. For an xdy weapon: Min damage = x Max damage = x*y Mean damage = (x*y + x) / 2 And higher x values give damage more centered around the mean. In ADOM, 10d2 weapon would normally be better than a 1d20 (same max damage of 20, but higher mean on the first.) However, if faced with a monster with 19 PV, you need to roll a perfect 20 to hurt it. And in this case the 1d20 is best, it has 5% chance of doing 20 damage vs. 0,1% for the other. Now heres a good excuse of playing ADOM instead of doing math homework... except for the stupid trolls who just hit. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/26/2006 at 06:26 (GMT -5) by Molach] |
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Soirana Registered user Chaos Freak Last page view: 4151 days, 10 hours, 15 minutes and 4 seconds ago. |
25d3 has o chance to score 1damage minimal is 25. A root is a flower that disdains fame. Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931) |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4070 days, 5 hours, 40 minutes and 23 seconds ago. |
1.1802353871573832565112169675888e-12 (or 0.0000000000011802353871573832565112169675888) is the chance to get 25 with a 25d3 weapon. It is also the chance to get 75 with the same weapon. To determine the best weapon for me to wield, I use the following approach: I determine the scale of damage, how much min and how much max, add those numbers up and the higher the result, the better. If a weapon has "+1"s, they count twice, since they will be added to min and max. And that's perfect, since I hate dice. I want a weapon that deals a safe amount of damage. A 1d1+682 weapon is what I'm dreaming of... (I don't do maths usually, however; my way of finding out how well a weapon works is by using it to kill monsters and wonder whether it takes longer or shorter.) You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Taz Registered user Registered user Last page view: 5027 days, 7 hours, 55 minutes and 6 seconds ago. |
"A 1d99 weapon has mean damage of 50. So has a 25d3 weapon. First would hit 1% for a measly 1 damage. Second would hit 0,000000000003 % for 1 damage." what soirana means is that a 25d3 weapon cannot deal 1 damage. aside from that, i'd say that between a 2d5 and a 5d2 weapon, if you are a pessimist, take the 5d2. if you are an optimist, that 2d5. i guess if you're really lucky (bards come to mind :P), the 2d5 might be a better choice. and a 1d1+500 weapon would be awesome :-D Taz: A potion of gain attributes (4s) is lying here. Suddenly a stone block hits your head! Something on the ground is smashed to pieces! PeanutGod: Awwww no! How harsh is that! This is where you need the artefact 'mop and bucket'. |
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netlava Registered user Last page view: 6031 days, 13 hours, 40 minutes and 42 seconds ago. |
1d99 would be better than 25d3 against a golem with, say, 75 PV since only the 1d99 would be able to damage the golem. Btw, a 2d5 is a bit different than 5d2 =O Snwo aval ten |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4070 days, 5 hours, 40 minutes and 23 seconds ago. |
2d5 makes for 2-10 damage. 5d2 makes for 5-10 damage. Evidently, the latter is better in every respect... Except for opponents with 9 PV. You'd have to be real optimistic to prefer it based on that single premise, though. 1d99 and 25d3 are mostly equal in damage: 1-99 compared to 25-75. In this case, the 1d99 is probably better... Except for low-PV monsters. The higher chance to hit a negative streak could mean the decisive disadvantage that costs you decisive hit points. There are powerful opponents with low PV, too. I just got an idea how to determine a weapon's value against certain PV values... The bigger the size of the integral with left endpoint PV to max damage (right endpoint) and the function that looks like a hill based on the dice (help, my math knowledge is on strike), the better the weapon. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5143 days, 10 hours, 52 minutes and 36 seconds ago. |
Yes of course, my mistake in post. It is corrected now. I mean minimum damage. My example is cleared if you put 1d75 + 24 instead of 1d99 In some RPG ive seen 20d1 weapon, so I guess it is possible with 500d1 weapons 5d2 is better than 2d5 always except in the special case that you have to kill a monster with exactly 9 PV. And its not much better then either, 4% of damaging hit on 2d5 vs. 3,1% on 5d2. Best way to work out which weapon is better is by calculating mean damage using the (x+x*y)/2 formula. (Add +'s after) From ADOM: Some weapon(scythe of some kind): 10d4+6 Other weapon(some kind of blade):6d8+6 Scythe is 25 + 6 = 31 mean damage Blade is 27 + 6 = 33. Blade will certainly be better, even if its minimum is only 12 vs 16 on the scythe. On the other hand, if you absolutely NEED to kill a monster (claw bugs) which has 15 hitpoints in ONE hit or DIE, then hmm whip out the scythe I guess. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4241 days, 4 hours, 58 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
Remember that you get additional bonuses beyondthe weapon itself, so these theories of monsters with exactly x amount of PV are fairly mute when you're getting an extra 25 damage from factors like tactics, weapon skill and strength. Generally going for the weapon with the highest mean damage is best - even if you don't get past the PV you still get weapon marks anyway. Sometimes I'll deliberately use crap weapons and defensive tactics to get the most marks. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Taz Registered user Registered user Last page view: 5027 days, 7 hours, 55 minutes and 6 seconds ago. |
silfir and molach, i agree. hadnt thought it out properly when i made that post :P Taz: A potion of gain attributes (4s) is lying here. Suddenly a stone block hits your head! Something on the ground is smashed to pieces! PeanutGod: Awwww no! How harsh is that! This is where you need the artefact 'mop and bucket'. |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5143 days, 10 hours, 52 minutes and 36 seconds ago. |
Heh. Silfir's post went in while i was typing mine. Funny we end up saying almost the same. |
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 Kirbot Registered user BattleHax0r of Devastation Last page view: 5886 days, 13 hours, 10 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
It seems we have a master necromancer on our hands. Anybody have any idea how old this thread is? Molach: "I like to have 200+ hp and over 5 good healin potions when I do [the fire] temple. AND some way of killing the Wyrm" Morio: "Some way of killing the worm is recommended, yes :D" |
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Maelstrom Registered user The Knight of the Black Rose Last page view: 3119 days, 27 minutes and 25 seconds ago. |
It's 2 months short of being a 5 year old thread. But it's been fun to see Amanda Sedai and Ekaterin ask such a newbie questions ;P My, have the people grown since then... ;) A pessimist sees a dark tunnel. An optimist sees a light at the end of that tunnel. A realist sees a train. And the train driver sees three idiots on the tracks. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/29/2006 at 09:53 (GMT -5) by Maelstrom] |
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