Register new account
Edit account
Search

Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / ADOM / Idea - feel free to critique

Online users ( Unknown)
Application object not working properly at the moment, no clue who is online...

* Numbers in parentheses are the number of minutes since the user last loaded a page. Logged-in users time out after 40 minutes (unless they manually log out), lurkers and anonymous posters after 20.

Azlaksar
Registered user
moron


Last page view:

4960 days, 6 hours, 58 minutes and 4 seconds ago.
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 at 05:57 (GMT -5)

As mentioned in my YASD thread, I'm pretty intent on beating the game with a troll healer (best so far was Rorq II, victim of said YASD)

Rorq III starved to death trying to do Kranach, and Rorq IV got too high level in the SMC and got smashed. Rorq V drowned, Rorq VI got waxed in the CoC, etc etc... I'm on Rorq IX now. :D

I'm still a bit of a noob here, so I'm wondering if the following idea is valid:

- First off, go straight to the outlaw town and kill a beggar to get to C (this also makes a very convenient first kill, don't usually run into them in dungeons OR wilderness) - alignment will hold steady until pre-crown time because I'm planning to...

- Forget the quests at this point and dive straight into SMC, grab the blanket, and do the UD to cut through (also a time-saver)... heading afterward straight to the CoC.

The biggest problem with this is the lack of a nice chunk of starting gold (3k from Kranach plus whatever I may find along the way would be enough to convert the first altar I find... might not be able to do it so soon otherwise).

Does this sound viable or should I really not skip that stuff?
Cat Lord Lord
Registered user
Not really


Last page view:

5452 days, 1 hour, 14 minutes and 54 seconds ago.
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 at 08:53 (GMT -5)

Ok, now this is what I usually do with healers. Do outlaw town if you want, I would reccomend talking to thief to get pickpockets. I would also recommend not being C.You will corrupt faster and won't get some interesting things (hint hint). Then go through UD. It helps ALOT. You won't need morgia as a troll, spenseweed will always help. Stomafilla will help a ton as a troll, and get crowned. Moss could help, and 3k isn't much. When I go in the UD I usually come out with more. Get miser +treasure hunter. Wondering do you want to do ultra?


Spoiler
That's the only reason the first kill matters for not getting many. Otherwise you want something good to get courage. On a similar note, if you want to do a ultra DON'T BE A TROLL!!! You will not get to level 45 at all, ever.

As for not doing the quests, I would simply come back and do them. It's good to do puppy cave for rocks if you want to sac, vault. And you can do druid quest to get book of frost bolt and wand (would be hard to learn).
UD if you are lucky gives an altar, stomafilla, and even a forge if you want. I always recommend going through it. But, if you don't find the blanket and hit level 4 or so RUN!!! You can always find another one, so just descend.
Homework is not meant for home! It's a sick verbal coincidence!
-My brother
Molach
Registered user
Lord of DurisMud


Last page view:

5148 days, 14 hours, 8 minutes and 43 seconds ago.
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 at 10:37 (GMT -5)

Its a good plan. If your character can live through that, hell live through anything.

About altars, precrowns:


Spoiler

Don't worry about changing align. CN or C is same difference at this point. You are still chaotic. Now you have 3 things that can happen:
You find a lawful altar. In this case I'd convert to L. Do this by saccing 1 gp at a time till you hit L.
You find a neutral altar. I would convert altar to C, by saccing a neutral monster. Remove good worn equipment, and risk is pretty small for negative effect. If altar doesn't change, sac another one. N monsters are most "human" monsters (barbarian, assassin, cutpurse, bandit NOT berserker), ratlings, and most regular animals (blink dogs are lawful, at least hell hounds and dire wolves are evil). After altar is C you can sac away. If YOU turn to N, well its not that much of a problem either.
If you find a C altar, no problem.
If you do not find stomofillia in UD you will most likely not be crowned until you can buy ratling food from CoC, because trolls need too much food. And when you sac you dont generate corpses.

First kill is not a big deal, as long as you write down what you get. Rat/giant rat might be a bad idea, but goblin, kobold, goblin rockthrower, large bat are all good enough. If you want ultra you should easily survive ID:up to 100.

Ultra with Troll are a pain. You will have to use a wish for monsters to kill for exp. Emperor moloch, or ancient karmic wyrms while seriously slowed. It can be done, but this is an advanced player trick.
Molach
Registered user
Lord of DurisMud


Last page view:

5148 days, 14 hours, 8 minutes and 43 seconds ago.
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 at 11:06 (GMT -5)

Woohoo.

Just tried the SMC-then-UD thing to see that it can be done. Did the N altar conversion thing.

Found an orc vault on the way, got the orc scorchers to throw a lot of spears at me. Look at the insane weapons I found (insane that there are 4 weapons that you would be lucky to get in any given game (low-mid level of course). I give them in the order they were identified (by wielding). So I went from polearm, to sword, then axe, then mabye polearm, then definately polearm:
1. Orcish spear (+1,1d8+3)
2. Frozen adamantium long sword (0, 1d8+1) !
3. Hand axe of devastation (-3, 5d6+6) !!
4. Orcish spear of penetration (+4, 1d8+2) !!!
5. Orcish spear of devastation (+1, 5d8+10) !!!!


This combined with my Large adamantium shield [+9,+5] should make the mid-game very easy.

Want the savefile? He is on level UD 6 now. Standing next to C altar, forge is up a few levels, and I skipped a vault 2-3-4 levels up. Talents were long lived then long stride (my item finds shows that treasure hunter is overrated...) First kill was hobgoblin leader (self defense, was ambushed)

[Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/22/2006 at 11:08 (GMT -5) by Molach]
Azlaksar
Registered user
moron


Last page view:

4960 days, 6 hours, 58 minutes and 4 seconds ago.
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 at 19:42 (GMT -5)

Wow.

I just made it to the mountain village... and I have a decent bit of stoma herbs, but haven't found one altar yet :(

What I did find, however, were 7lb's and a really sick eternium halberd.

So, this should be fun ;)

--Update--

I'm now in the CoC happily sacrificing pretty much everything I can find... the altar was N, so I live-sac'd it to C.

I'm not going to bother with going for an Ultra ending... I haven't even gotten a win yet.

Also - is precrowning possible at level 8? (I've generated zero artifacts, so it seems like that should be the case given the formula) ... I'm at "Very close" so far, and still gaining.

[Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/23/2006 at 05:50 (GMT -5) by Azlaksar]
Molach
Registered user
Lord of DurisMud


Last page view:

5148 days, 14 hours, 8 minutes and 43 seconds ago.
Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 at 07:46 (GMT -5)



Spoiler

Precrowning: Possible if "your level" is equal or more thsn 3 times "number of artifacts generated" + 8.
0 artifacts generated: You can precrown at level 8
1 a.g.: P.c. at level 11
2 a.g.: P.C. at level 14

Of course each precrown generates an artifact, and remember that pyramid is closed at level 17.
Si before dwarftown. And killing black druid generates artifact, entering gremlin cave generates, entering underground of dwarven graveyard generates artifact, doing pyramid generates 2, entering darkforge generates artifact.
Portrait
Soirana
Registered user
Chaos Freak


Last page view:

4156 days, 13 hours, 31 minutes and 11 seconds ago.
Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 at 08:22 (GMT -5)

don;t forget you can get precrowned "inside" pyramid.
A root is a flower that disdains fame.
Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931)
Portrait
Soirana
Registered user
Chaos Freak


Last page view:

4156 days, 13 hours, 31 minutes and 11 seconds ago.
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 at 07:47 (GMT -5)

molach states: my item finds shows that treasure hunter is overrated...

could i get more explanation on this statement? could save me a hell lot testing.
A root is a flower that disdains fame.
Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931)
Molach
Registered user
Lord of DurisMud


Last page view:

5148 days, 14 hours, 8 minutes and 43 seconds ago.
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 at 14:39 (GMT -5)

Not a serious statement. I meant the luck in getting these particular items:

2. Frozen adamantium long sword (0, 1d8+7)
3. Hand axe of devastation (-3, 5d6+6)
4. Orcish spear of penetration (+4, 1d8+2)
5. Orcish spear of devastation (+1, 5d8+10)

in about 20 minutes of play "proved" that I did very well without the "overrated" treasure hunter skill.

Which of course it doesn't, that was just dumb luck and a small data sample.

I still rarely take treasure hunter skill, though. Used to, but no more. I find enough stuff without it, and I think the guaranteed stuff is good enough. I have adopted warm feelings for my hapless adventurers, and I'll do anything to keep them alive. And that means long stride at the start (long lived as troll), and then immediate useful talents (PV/DV/Speed)
Portrait
Taz
Registered user
Registered user


Last page view:

5032 days, 11 hours, 11 minutes and 13 seconds ago.
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 at 21:56 (GMT -5)

the only time i didnt pick the treasure hunter talent i was hard pressed to find enough wands, scrolls and potions. mostly wands though.

but then, my last good character was a bard with treasure hunter talent and i didnt have most of the wands i wanted at level 22 either.
Taz: A potion of gain attributes (4s) is lying here. Suddenly a stone block hits your head! Something on the ground is smashed to pieces!
PeanutGod: Awwww no! How harsh is that! This is where you need the artefact 'mop and bucket'.
Portrait
Soirana
Registered user
Chaos Freak


Last page view:

4156 days, 13 hours, 31 minutes and 11 seconds ago.
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 at 23:04 (GMT -5)

molach: is it very well known TH talent affects quantity of items not quality?

in general more simple question: what is aproximate chance of gremlin droping smthing when killed?
A root is a flower that disdains fame.
Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931)
Portrait
Taz
Registered user
Registered user


Last page view:

5032 days, 11 hours, 11 minutes and 13 seconds ago.
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 at 02:14 (GMT -5)

soirana, with higher quantity you get more chances to get better items.
Taz: A potion of gain attributes (4s) is lying here. Suddenly a stone block hits your head! Something on the ground is smashed to pieces!
PeanutGod: Awwww no! How harsh is that! This is where you need the artefact 'mop and bucket'.
Portrait
Soirana
Registered user
Chaos Freak


Last page view:

4156 days, 13 hours, 31 minutes and 11 seconds ago.
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 at 05:23 (GMT -5)



Spoiler
if my info is correct TH gives you somtehing like 100 extra items from killing 1000 monsters. most of this food and gold. what are you chances to get smthing worth? and the cost of three talents.

i'd prefer killing extra thousand of gremlins in dh. that is sort of reliable.

A root is a flower that disdains fame.
Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931)

[Edited 1 time, last edit on 12/1/2006 at 09:17 (GMT -5) by Soirana]
Molach
Registered user
Lord of DurisMud


Last page view:

5148 days, 14 hours, 8 minutes and 43 seconds ago.
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 at 06:32 (GMT -5)



Spoiler

Well now it's your turn. What info is that and where can I read it? I am really curious about this because I haven't seen an accurate description of TH. I would imagine that the easiest way to program the talent would be to reduce the %chance_of_nodrop (if there is such a variable). But then again I don't know how the drop formula is either. It is very creature dependant in addition a standard Danger-level vs. Item drop percentage algorithm. So when you say 10%more drops, and more gold and food, that would make the talent much less valuable than I thought it was. 10% more drops is not very much, finding 11 in stead of 10 wands - and probably it was just another door creation...

I would also like to see some research on how uch corpse generation is affected by food preservation skill level and items of hunting.

Not code-hacking, but research


[Edited 1 time, last edit on 12/1/2006 at 06:33 (GMT -5) by Molach]
Portrait
Soirana
Registered user
Chaos Freak


Last page view:

4156 days, 13 hours, 31 minutes and 11 seconds ago.
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 at 09:16 (GMT -5)

i'm deeply sorry but my knowdledge of both TH value and food preservation comes to some old code hacking i dug up in the net.

i'm not going research known results. life have some other fine aspects not conected to ADOM. and the moments related to Adom... I'd prefer lets say testing Eternal man challenge without pets. just becouse version with pets has recently been beaten.

Andy's guidebook (0.14.6 talents) gives something like 50 procent extra items without quality increase. But well, i have certain evidence he was familiar with code diving results for TH. Note 50 procent items doesn't contradict my evaluation. it just diferent way to count things.

since you are against code diving (which is more when understandable) i wan't leave link to resources. actually, i managed to gooogle it in less when ten minutes yesterday.



Spoiler
please notice i haven't said 10 p[rocent extra items. if you are killing something with very low drop chance increase might be over 100 and it is believed to be 0 procent increase for ancient dragons.

A root is a flower that disdains fame.
Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931)
Darren Grey
Registered user

Last page view:

4246 days, 8 hours, 14 minutes and 20 seconds ago.
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 at 16:31 (GMT -5)

Well I tried some testing and found that Treasure Hunter doesn't seem to affect items found on the ground when a level is generated. Will have to do more testing to check about item drops...
Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse."
Darren Grey
Registered user

Last page view:

4246 days, 8 hours, 14 minutes and 20 seconds ago.
Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 at 08:47 (GMT -5)

All right, so with a little more testing it seems to double the amount of items dropped by monsters. This includes standard items like bows from kobolds and crude knives from orcs (and likely things like pick axes from dwarves and eternium gear from chaos knights). I'll put the full details of my testing on rec.games.roguelike.adom.
Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse."
Molach
Registered user
Lord of DurisMud


Last page view:

5148 days, 14 hours, 8 minutes and 43 seconds ago.
Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 at 11:23 (GMT -5)

I did some testing too, this on TH vs. Pickpocket:
2 chars, identical siamese twins. They were finally separated at level 8, just before hitting level 9. At the separation, both were in ID:2, and both had 100 pickpocket skill
The first took the Treasure Hunter talent, the second took very hardy.

They each pickpocketed 125 monsters.
...
And got identical results :)
Item-Gold-Nothing valuable
18---12---95

Data sample is still a bit low, but I can increase it from here, as both characters are still alive and well. But in any case there does not appear to be any significat advantage to pickpocketing with the Treasure Hunter talent. As we might expect.
Darren Grey
Registered user

Last page view:

4246 days, 8 hours, 14 minutes and 20 seconds ago.
Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 at 19:58 (GMT -5)

Aye, it's a low sample, but if the difference was significant you'd expect to see some variation. So yeah, I agree with your conclusion on that.
Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse."
Silfir
Registered user
Writer of Overly Long Guides


Last page view:

4075 days, 8 hours, 56 minutes and 30 seconds ago.
Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 at 16:11 (GMT -5)

Stuff you find in other people's pockets hardly counts as treasure.

Thieves may disagree with me on this. ;)
You drop the golden ball.
You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west.
Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?"
Which direction? (123456789) 4
Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated.
You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd!

Color mixer:
Red: Green: Blue: HTML color code: result:      
Your Name: Check to login:

Your Message:


Read the
formating help
Are you a spambot? Yes No Maybe Huh?
Create poll? Yes No   What is this?
Poll question: