Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / ADOM / Is this cheating
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Jules Registered user Last page view: 4771 days, 19 hours, 48 minutes and 53 seconds ago. |
I'd be interested in your thoughts as to my new means of producing characters in Adom. I work as a automation engineer in IT, and as part of this role, I use tools that automate IT applications. I have recently written a script that will constantly generate Adom characters, and either save or discard them depending upon their characteristics. Currently, it will produce a character, generating their stats, and choosing their talents. If the character has sufficiently high Learning, 22 is the minimum, then it will walk the character down to Teryino, equip his weapons, and rings, and then save. This does not do anything that could not be produced by manual means, and it is exactly the same as doing it yourself over and over. It merely prevents me from having the tedium of rolling over and over. I just hit the button, and come back in 30 minutes. Question is, is it cheating, or just a good way of saving precious time. |
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F50 Registered user Last page view: 5477 days, 53 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
lol. I did that kind of thing by had but with less restricting stat minimums -- 20 st for fighters, le 16 for paladins. A quarter of the characters generated fit the bill. Now I only toss out the really bad characters/starsigns. That's a pretty neat program if only for the constant I/O part of it. What language? "If the bread weights that much in the draklor chain, then it's no wonder so many die of starvation. AND - what kind of IRON RATION weights as much as an iron shield?! A dinner for four, oven included? ;)" -Maelstrom |
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Jules Registered user Last page view: 4771 days, 19 hours, 48 minutes and 53 seconds ago. |
Its a tool called Winrunner. It literally drives the application as though it was you doing it. It can take a while for it to generate anything over Learning at 22. Max Learning I have had is 24 for a Dark Elven Wizard. Most of the other stats I'm not too bothered about, but Learning at the start enables skills to fly up, and its also useful for learning spells. |
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nOOb-mAsTeR Registered user Master of all things nOOby!!! Last page view: 5764 days, 23 hours, 23 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Boy, you could have that create some pretty neat starting characters...like having the undead run away intrinsic is nice, the one where you find more special things(Forges, shops, etc.) in dungeons too.Could you make it this picky? Male Gnomish mindcrafter St at least 10, learning at least 10, willpower at least 15, month of unicorn,your brother came hoome the night you were born intrinsic. Because the above char is my ideal starting char for my ulitmate char....:D "You try to give Fang, the large dog the bone. Fang, the large dog says,"Do you know who I am, mortal?!?!" My smartest dog ever:D |
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Some guy Registered user I'm baaaack. Last page view: 5604 days, 7 hours, 59 minutes and 43 seconds ago. |
If you're really serious about your tool, you could potentially program all the stat-changing questions into it, to increase its chance of generating a character with preferred stats. Is this cheating? Ultimately, the individual player can decide for himself what's cheating and what's acceptable - Adom playing is a solo venture. Sometimes I consider birth-scumming to just be fast-forwarding. By that, I mean that a character generated in a bad month or with bad skills will probably die anyway. However, I try to limit that as much as possible. I usually only discard useless months, such as wand (if I'm a non-neutral or non-spellcaster), or other months depending on the character. Then I try to play the game with whatever stats I roll. Some characters require more scumming though: my last attempted characters were true-berserking wizards, and the only one that got anywhere was born in candle, so I'd scum for candle in the future. The pickiest I've ever been for character generation was with my bard; with these, I only accepted characters born in candle, with excellent skills and attributes. I've become much less picky since then. The following is a real Adom message: The homunculus hits you. You suddenly fall asleep! Do you want to continue to read the spellbook of Calm Monster? [y/N] |
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F50 Registered user Last page view: 5477 days, 53 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
I find the Candle to be not as good as the other starsigns. The regeneration effect is good, but if you care about it that much then you should get the healthy talent. Besides, it doesn't count for much late-game. The book is great for borderline-spellcasters who otherwise will have trouble learning improved fireball (invoked devastation) or acid ball (rain of sorrow) even at level 25. Unicorn helps everyone. Raven is *excellent* (now if only I could generate a decent character in this starsign...). "If the bread weights that much in the draklor chain, then it's no wonder so many die of starvation. AND - what kind of IRON RATION weights as much as an iron shield?! A dinner for four, oven included? ;)" -Maelstrom |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4240 days, 9 hours, 27 minutes and 56 seconds ago. |
I don't think that's cheating because getting characters with Le 22 is actually not going to help you much. It might more be cheating if you scum for the birth messages (long lost brother etc). Remember that high stats are balanced out by higher xp requirements and low other stats. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4069 days, 10 hours, 10 minutes and 6 seconds ago. |
Sometimes, just for kicks, I create an entirely random character and try to play that one through no matter what. This is how I finished the game with an orcish barbarian born in Salamander. :) You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Some guy Registered user I'm baaaack. Last page view: 5604 days, 7 hours, 59 minutes and 43 seconds ago. |
Nice Silfer, I've never played random characters. I always have some specific goal when I'm playing, so when I run out of goals I have to take a break. Characters born in Candle heal faster without the healing skill than characters born in any other month with 100 healing and the healthy talent. This doesn't help you much in the late game, but it's a very useful crutch that can get any character to the caves of chaos alive. Also, the extra talent let me get heir and treasure hunter on my bards. The following is a real Adom message: The homunculus hits you. You suddenly fall asleep! Do you want to continue to read the spellbook of Calm Monster? [y/N] |
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nOOb-mAsTeR Registered user Master of all things nOOby!!! Last page view: 5764 days, 23 hours, 23 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Early game is hardest for me, rest is pretty easy "You try to give Fang, the large dog the bone. Fang, the large dog says,"Do you know who I am, mortal?!?!" My smartest dog ever:D |
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F50 Registered user Last page view: 5477 days, 53 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
Where is early game exactly? I (contrary to the guidebook) think that until the water temple is early, until Earth temple is mid, and late game is after that (for a regular game) "If the bread weights that much in the draklor chain, then it's no wonder so many die of starvation. AND - what kind of IRON RATION weights as much as an iron shield?! A dinner for four, oven included? ;)" -Maelstrom |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4069 days, 10 hours, 10 minutes and 6 seconds ago. |
Spoiler Early game: Usually, the character is grateful for every extra PV he finds, i.e. he doesn't have perfect equipment yet. He doesn't meet over-powerful opponents, which is good, because he wouldn't have the power or the resources to do them any harm yet. He is still looking for good herb patches to farm (if he does use herbalism) and is in the process of gaining stats slowly. Mid game: Character has achieved mastery in one weapon class, or excellent in two weapon classes, and has enough tricks up his or her sleeve to be able to kill even the unexpected Greater Titan or Lich King. He is able to (if he didn't already do it) do the Fire Temple, possibly kill the Water Dragon. Maybe he has already fought a tension room of chaos warriors (Eternium equipment!) and gained access to a few of the most desirable items (seven leagues, GoGSes...). If he does use herbs, his stats are already maxed. Late Game: Character is at the peak of his power. He could kill a balor or two, which is all he needs if he already has a wand of destruction. Possibly, he is powerful (or patient) enough to kill ALL of D:50 with ease. If he doesn't yet have all the orbs, he is on the way to get them. Early game dungeons: Unremarkable dungeon Puppy Cave Infinite dungeon (for earliest game training) Village Dungeon or Druid Dungeon Upper two levels of Assassin Dungeon CoC (roughly) until Khelavaster Mid game dungeons: Tomb of the High Kings Dwarven Graveyard Darkforge CoC (roughly) until the Cat Lord Level Tower of Eternal Flames Late game dungeons: Unreal Dungeon Blue Dragon Caves CoC until D:50 Thanks, noob_MASTER ;) You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! [Edited 1 time, last edit on 3/25/2007 at 13:27 (GMT -5) by Silfir] |
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nOOb-mAsTeR Registered user Master of all things nOOby!!! Last page view: 5764 days, 23 hours, 23 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Umm, silfir?That is pretty spoily, and we're in the adom section:D Though I do agree with you on your classifications of dungeons.And I have a little trick in order to get all eternium armor by level 20, and I once got a wizard all eternium armor at level 5:D "You try to give Fang, the large dog the bone. Fang, the large dog says,"Do you know who I am, mortal?!?!" My smartest dog ever:D |
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Mewto Registered user Last page view: 3600 days, 11 hours, 50 minutes and 23 seconds ago. |
urm, noob-master, you wouldn't plan to share that info, would you? :D In the spoilers section maybe... For the Horde! |
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nOOb-mAsTeR Registered user Master of all things nOOby!!! Last page view: 5764 days, 23 hours, 23 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
I'll share this here, in this section, but it is extremely cheap, (the 2nd technique is at least),the first is pretty easy: Extremely-Spoily-Cheap-IMO Spoiler Well, first of all, with all chars, just take them to Darkforge if they can take on the golems, and kill chaos knights for a while, and you'll get alot of eternium armor. This happened with a prototype trollish wizard: I went directly to puppy cave, and zapped my wand of wonder, and got a wish: so I wished for a chaos wizard.Now, this wizard had 3 spellbooks of acidball, and fortunate enough to have an altar generated on level, for harder monsters summoned by the chaos wizard. The chaos wizard may summon some chaos warriors, if you are lucky enough to have a wand of trap creation, create alarm traps, and lock doors, and get the heck out of there. This technique isn't perfect, but eventually, all of the chaos warriors should kill each other, leaving alot of eternium equipment.As I said, it's not a perfect technique, so you may have to create a lot of chars that start with a wand of wonder+trap creation. "You try to give Fang, the large dog the bone. Fang, the large dog says,"Do you know who I am, mortal?!?!" My smartest dog ever:D |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4240 days, 9 hours, 27 minutes and 56 seconds ago. |
There is a very vital flaw in that technique regarding using the altar. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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nOOb-mAsTeR Registered user Master of all things nOOby!!! Last page view: 5764 days, 23 hours, 23 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
It must be a bug then, since in an older version(I believe it was 1.0.0?)I was able to do this, only once though. The whole technique could have been a bug, because the char was lost due to a bug.... "You try to give Fang, the large dog the bone. Fang, the large dog says,"Do you know who I am, mortal?!?!" My smartest dog ever:D |
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Some guy Registered user I'm baaaack. Last page view: 5604 days, 7 hours, 59 minutes and 43 seconds ago. |
Yeah, I wouldn't wish for a chaos wizard at level one. Seems risky. I'd say that the early game turns into the mid-game when you first reach the CoC after clearing everything around Terinyo. The late game starts when most areas around the wilderness have been defeated, and you pass through the wall of fire, opening up all of the lower CoC. These are just moments which personally strike me as having a major change in game feel. The following is a real Adom message: The homunculus hits you. You suddenly fall asleep! Do you want to continue to read the spellbook of Calm Monster? [y/N] |
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Soira x Unregistered user |
if i need pick crucial moments thay would be: getting tactics and obtaining fire orb. |
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Mewto Registered user Last page view: 3600 days, 11 hours, 50 minutes and 23 seconds ago. |
Well I'd rather roll a wizard until I get a Spellbook of Teleportation and a ring of TC and got to Darkforge... that would be possible. I remember going in gamma 16 with a druid who knew divine wrath to darkforge. I cast the spell ~50 times to get some effectivity and I managed to kill about 4 golems before I died from a trap. For the Horde! |
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nOOb-mAsTeR Registered user Master of all things nOOby!!! Last page view: 5764 days, 23 hours, 23 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Yeah, I agree with Soirana's locations:if you get tactics, it typically means for me that:I got precrowned once or twice, did pyramid, graveyard, and possibly ready to do Darkforge. When I get the fire orb, it either means that I leveled up alot, or found slaying ammo and rings of ice. "You try to give Fang, the large dog the bone. Fang, the large dog says,"Do you know who I am, mortal?!?!" My smartest dog ever:D |
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yaggazthefool Unregistered user |
Anyone have an autoroller they want to share? I've been looking for one for a while and haven't found one (well, there was the old one but it hasn't been updated to support talents). Jules, want to share your script? |
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Jules Registered user Last page view: 4771 days, 19 hours, 48 minutes and 53 seconds ago. |
I'm happy to share the script with anyone who can use it. However it does have a drawback, it requires WinRunner to be installed on your machine to work, and this software requires a licence. Anyone who wants the script is welcome to it, but without winrunner, it is worthless. Anyone who wants it, post your email address, and I will send you the script. |
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I'd love it ;) Unregistered user |
I'd love it if you could send me a copy of the Winrunner script. adomlover@gmail.com |
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post it? Unregistered user |
As a followup, wouldn't be easy enough just to post the TSL? As an aside, it would be nice if it worked with something free.. I just don't know any good ones for GUI tests, rather than http/https tests... ;( http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywinauto/ ? There's got to be an easier way; Almost like an expect script... |
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yorak Registered user Savage orc Last page view: 3551 days, 8 hours, 33 minutes and 42 seconds ago. |
Few months back I wrote character generator/roller bash-script for Linux. From what I've read there is an need for this kind of service for all of us who think editing save files is cheating but who relly suck in playing ADOM :) The script is an interactive bash shell -script. With it you can set weights for character attributes from which it calculates the value of an character. These values are compared and best are kept. Character rolling iterations can be set as well as the amount of caracters kept. In theory it should be possible to get it working also on a windows machine via Cygwin (http://www.cygwin.com/). In OS X it should work with minor (or none) modifications. I have documentated and commented the script relatively well so porting should be possible to anyone with any knowledge on programming/scripting. If someone is ready to try it or wants to generate some characters on linux platform, go ahead and contact me: yorak@flashmail.com / jussi dot rasku atchar gmail dot com |
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Soirana Registered user Chaos Freak Last page view: 4150 days, 14 hours, 44 minutes and 47 seconds ago. |
soira goes to bang wall with head for being window user without scripting knowledge. A root is a flower that disdains fame. Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931) |
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e1ven Unregistered user |
I had writeen a script for the free windows Autoit. It only works with the DOS version of ADOM, when running under windows. You might also need to right click on ADOM, and set it to run in compatibility mode, to get it to run without crashing. $charactersCreated =63; ;The number of chars we've successfully created this session. ;Increase this number to start on a higher value, such as if you have existing numbered chars. while (1) ; Start ADOM. ; Actually, run the bat file, so it clears out the .prc lock while (1) ;Make sure Numlock is off Send("{NUMLOCK off}"); ;If ADOM is already running, close it. ProcessClose( "NTVDM.exe"); ; Start ADOM. Run("C:\Documents and Settings\Ryan\Desktop\adom\Adom.BAT","C:\Documents and Settings\Ryan\Desktop\adom") ; Wait until the window changes to start with C:\WINNT - This will indicate the program is up. WinWaitActive("C:\WINDOWS") ; Now that ADOM is running, send the keys to get us to the talents screen Send(" g"); $birthsign = getBirthSign(); if (CheckBirthSign($birthsign)) then ExitLoop; Send(" smgh R"); gnome bard. ; Get the number of Talents- We want to make sure that the character gains at least X rolled talents ; to do this, we need to increase the limit to account for some granted by Birthsigns.. ; $talents = getNumberOfTalents() ; $RequiredNumberOfTalents = 5 + ExtraTalentsFromBirthSign($birthsign); if ($talents < $RequiredNumberOfTalents) then ExitLoop; ; Choose talents.. If it finds the talent, it adds it. If it can't find it, re-roll the character. if $talents = 3 then if findTalent("Alert") then ExitLoop; if findTalent("Strong of Will") then ExitLoop; if findTalent("Miser") then ExitLoop; EndIf if $talents = 4 then if findTalent("Alert") then ExitLoop; if findTalent("Strong of Will") then ExitLoop; if findTalent("Miser") then ExitLoop; if findTalent("Treasure Hunter") then ExitLoop; EndIf if $talents = 5 then if findTalent("Alert") then ExitLoop; if findTalent("Strong of Will") then ExitLoop; if findTalent("Boon to the Family") then ExitLoop; if findTalent("Charming") then ExitLoop; if findTalent("Heir") then ExitLoop; EndIf if $talents = 6 then if findTalent("Alert") then ExitLoop; if findTalent("Strong of Will") then ExitLoop; if findTalent("Boon to the Family") then ExitLoop; if findTalent("Charming") then ExitLoop; if findTalent("Heir") then ExitLoop; if findTalent("Miser") then ExitLoop; EndIf ;At this point, ADOM is asking for a name. Send("Name " & $charactersCreated); Send("{ENTER}"); ;Walk into town, so we can check our Skills Send("{NUMLOCK on}"); Send("{NUMPAD1}"); Send("{NUMPAD2}"); Send("{NUMPAD1}"); Send("{NUMPAD4}"); Send("{NUMPAD1}"); Send("{NUMPAD4}"); Send("{NUMPAD4}"); Send("{NUMLOCK off}"); Send("> "); ;Check your stats against pre-set limits if getstat("Le") < 10 then ExitLoop; ;Check your Skills. if checkSkill("Alertness") then ExitLoop; if checkSkill("Concentration") then exitloop; if checkSkill("Food Preservation") then exitloop; ;check for EITHER herbalism or healing (Inclusive) $herb = 0; if (checkskill("Herbalism") = 0) then $herb = 1; if (checkskill("Healing") = 0) Then $herb = 1; if ($herb = 0) then ExitLoop; ;You made it! Save! Send("+s"); send("y "); sleep (200); ; Add one to the Number of Characters generated. $charactersCreated = $charactersCreated + 1; ExitLoop; WEnd WEnd ; end the must have ;StringInStr($NumberOfTalents,"alert") ;Check for the listed talent. If we find it, add it to the character. Func choosetalent($talent) ;Do we have the talen $screen = getScreen(); $talentLocation = StringInStr($screen,$talent); if ($talentLocation > 0) then $alertletter = StringMid($screen,$talentLocation -4,1); Send($alertletter); return 0; else return 1; EndIf EndFunc func findTalent($talent) if (choosetalent($talent) = 0) then return 0; Send("+",1); if (choosetalent($talent) = 0) then return 0; Send("+",1); if (choosetalent($talent) = 0) then return 0; Send("{- 3}",1); return 1; EndFunc Func getStat($stat) $screen = getScreen(); return StringMid($screen,StringInStr($screen,$stat) +3,2) EndFunc ; check the skill page. If we return 0, we're good. If we return 1, there's a problem. Func checkSkill($skill) Send ("a"); $screen = getScreen(); if (StringInStr($screen,$skill) > 0) then Send("z"); return 0; endIf; Send("+",1); ;Check for a second page, just to be safe.... if (StringInStr($screen,$skill) > 0) then Send("z"); return 0; EndIf Send("z"); return 1; EndFunc ;Gets a copy of the screen, and returns it as a string. ; It would be a *lot* faster if we could selectAll, but that only gets the first half of the screen for me. Func getScreen() Send("!{space}EK"); Send("{shiftDOWN}"); Send("{pgdn}"); Send("{right 79}"); Send("{shiftup}"); Send("{ENTER}"); return ClipGet(); EndFunc Func getBirthSign() $text = getScreen(); return $text; EndFunc ; Check the Birth Sign, to see if it's one of the acceptable ones. If so, return 0; Func CheckBirthSign($text) ;if (StringInStr($text,"month of the Candle") > 0) then return 0; ;if (StringInStr($text,"month of the Falcon") > 0) then return 0; ;if (StringInStr($text,"month of the Sword") > 0) then return 0; ;if (StringInStr($text,"month of the Unicorn") > 0) then return 0; if (StringInStr($text,"month of the Raven") > 0) then return 0; return 1; EndFunc ; Return any extra talents granted by the Birthsign. Func ExtraTalentsFromBirthSign($text) if (StringInStr($text,"month of the Candle") > 0) then return 1; ;if (StringInStr($text,"month of the Falcon") > 0) then return 1; return 0; EndFunc Func getNumberOfTalents() $screen = getScreen(); return StringMid($screen,StringInStr($screen,"Choose a talent") +22,1) EndFunc |
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e1ven Unregistered user |
I should add- I specifically wrote this to make a specific character type, but it's easy to modify. Change the talents you're looking for, or the birth months. Or change the line that adds your class and race. |
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yorak Registered user Savage orc Last page view: 3551 days, 8 hours, 33 minutes and 42 seconds ago. |
Perhaps I find some time to test/port my roller script to windows next week. There seems to be stand alone bash for windows enviroment at http://win-bash.sourceforge.net/ . With it could be possible to get the script working. If not, would DOS version compatible roller script suffice to you Soirana? UPDATE: Bad news for all you MS Windows users. I tried to get my ADOM Roll script to work in Windows/Cygwin enviroment but ran into a wall. The script works otherwise perfectly fine, but ADOM.EXE does not read keypresses from the stdin :( However. If somebody knows a way to send keypresses to DOS-adom and informs me it still can be done. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 4/16/2007 at 15:23 (GMT -5) by yorak] |
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