Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / ADOM / Developing balanced characters
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Worst player... ever Unregistered user |
Hey everyone, First, I want to see if I have a record for futility at ADOM. I've been playing this game on occasion for over a DECADE, run well over 1000 characters - and I have never won. I've never even come close. The furthest I've gotten is to the CoC Graveyard a couple of times. Are there worse players of ADOM than me? Anyway, my problem seems to be that I can't create balanced characters. There's always something that my character sucks at, and that weakness will invariably be expoited in the end. I'm of the opinion now that a winning ADOM character, by by the time they enter the pyramid, needs to be able to: Obliterate creatures in melee. Obliterate creatures at a distance, especially undead. And have more than one method of obliterating them. Be able to run fast. Have a high literacy score. Be very good at detecting/avoiding traps. Have teleport control and strong resistances. Have no detectable corruption at this point. I know how to do most of these things, but how do you develop melee-oriented characters so they can kill nasty things without getting hit by them? And how do you develop spellcasters, etc, so that they aren't knocked senseless in some unavoidable close encounter? It seems to me that if you spend a long time practicing archery, you'll run out of arrows and a spellcaster seems like he will ALWAYS be bad in melee because he's got crap HP. A spallcaster is also not going to be strong enough to wear first-rate armor. What's the secret? Do you guys have sure-fire ways to get excellent gear very early on, or do you spend a LOT of time in the ID developing your characters skills? Or something else? Please share... Thanks |
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Nightmare Registered user Soul Calibur 2 Last page view: 4602 days, 3 hours, 18 minutes and 36 seconds ago. |
Go to the spoilers section, there we discuss a lot of tactics and strategies to balance out and strengthen your character. A few things that aren't too spoily, training shields should be a high priority for ANY character. The DV bonuses get large and will save your life many times. For spellcasters, getting your skill up in a melee weapon or two is advisable. That way, you can save spell castings and PP for the stronger enemies, and plow through the weaker ones with your weapons. Missile weapons are great for all characters. Don't worry about using up all your ammo, you always find more eventually. Save a stack or two for situations where you'll really need them. If you're walking around in dungeons, put your tactics on coward, then change them as needed. Better safe than sorry, especially if you're holding the direction button down to move quickly and run into something powerful. Don't feel bad about fleeing if you're unsure you can win a fight. Wands of webbing, darkness, wands of door creation, teleportation, whatever you need to do to get some space and get to the stairs, then come back when you're stronger. Many a brave adventurer has met their end tempting the fates against monsters too powerful for them. Know your characters strengths and weaknesses, know how strong your opponents are and what tactics they use. "As for me, I feel priveleged to be among the only species able to make scientific inquiries." -unknown "Be sure to keep your distance if you don't have resistance." -DG |
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noob Registered user Last page view: 5931 days, 16 hours, 25 minutes and 38 seconds ago. |
There actually is a simple answer how to win - play a wizard... [Miniguide:]Some people advice new players (who you aren't anymore) against casters ("too complicated", "too low toughness", ...), but I disagree - wizards just rule. Reason: TELEPORT. Teleport + control = never dangerous melee fights again (just teleport 6 squares away and finish with bolts/archery) - use this in time! Teleport + control = never corruption trouble again cause you can teleport from stairs to stairs to bypass corrupting levels. Wizards are NOT weak at the beginning because they get their bolt spells which can kill almost anything at earlygame with one shoot. Also using spells = permanent coward bonus without attack penalty (lev1 wizard can beat the raider lord gang). Choose your weapon class at the beginning (polearm + shield is good) and stick to it for high training effect - wizards do actually well in melee against normal foes (don't waste spellmemory on weaklings in early game). They can wear easyly best armors and equipment because SoA = never burdened again + carry tons of stuff. Some missiletraining is still important (bow + xbow) - waste all nonslaying ammo on training and save slaying stuff to special nasties. The ID is especially versatile (almost cheating) for wizards since they get *lots* of books - go there to avoid the last bit of challenge and get teleport, SoA, invisibility,... whatever you wan't. You will easily win if you remember to be CAREFUL (retreat on 1st sign of threat, NO melee with dangerous enemies, wear the right amulets like free action ASAP on occasion, recast SoA ASAP, ...). More + better infos are on the official wizards guide (spoilers). [Edited 1 time, last edit on 12/16/2007 at 22:03 (GMT -5) by noob] |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4242 days, 13 hours, 13 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
Well, to cover briefly some of the points raised (I don't want to get too spoily): Melee: Try to stick to a specific class of one-handed weapons plus shield, and train up both well. Wear good armour, especially high DV stuff. Get toughness high with herbs (important for all characters to have decent hp). For tougher monsters rely on spells or missiles. Ranged: Get plenty of arrows from barbarians in the wilderness. Be sure to bless slaying arrows you use against demons or undead. Don't waste ammo on lowly creatures if you can easily melee them. Spells: Don't worry too much about this if you're not a main casting character. If you are a spellcaster then build up a huge array of spells to remain eternally versatile. Burning hands and acid ball are generally the best offensive spells. Remember to use tactical spells like teleport and darkness often. Don't let yourself run out of PP - run away and rest up. Running fast means staying unburdened, so try not to carry too much stuff or get the right girdles to help out. When running away be sure you're on coward - it can give you a speed boost on low health. SLBs are the ultimate in fast travel, and makes things much easier for archers especially. Building up weapon marks makes you faster when attacking, and certain missile talents help with this too. Detect traps can be gotten from Yergius, and you should invest in this for the trap-laden areas. Otherwise traps are just a general bane in the game, and there's not much you can do to avoid them. Sometimes you can use them to your advantage (teleport for instance). Be very careful with doors - the knock spell helps immensely. Teleport control can be received from blink dog corpses, and there are specific tactics to help in hunting those. Resistances can be gotten from many different sources. Taking things out from a range can help avoid the necessity, though some like paralysis resistance are important to keep about. Corruption is inevitable, so don't feel bad if you're suffering from some early on. Just be sure you know where the guaranteed sources of removal are, and keep some on you at all times. Some corruptions can be beneficial, so don't always wipe yourself clean. If you post an flg some time then we could give more direct and specific advice on how to improve your characters. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." [Edited 1 time, last edit on 12/16/2007 at 20:21 (GMT -5) by Darren Grey] |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4900 days, 15 hours, 30 minutes and 18 seconds ago. |
>Are there worse players of ADOM than me? Yes. Anyone like me, who couldn't have gotten anywhere without heavy use of the guidebook. If you have played for over a decade, and only reached the CoC graveyard a few times, that must mean you are somewhat un-spoiled. I applaud you, I sometimes wish I had stayed away from the guidebook a bit longer, and tried to figure out more mysteries on my own. I certainly obtained much more satisfaction from my own discoveries. I think the biggest difference maker would be figuring out the usefulness of some herbs (If you don't know already). I can give some non-spoily hints about how to experiment with them more safely. 1> Don't experiment with any cursed herbs. 2> Have numerous stacks of herbs before using any, as some herbs may counter the negative effects of others. 3> Identify all herbs before experimenting, look at the names of them carefully, they may give hints about their uses. 4> Have a nice inventory of potions, as some of them may also counter some undesired herb effects. 5> All herbs have some effect. If the effect of an herb isn't appearant immediately, then try using several at once, or try different methods of utilizing the herb, and note long term effects. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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PeanutGod Registered user Lord of Misery Last page view: 5055 days, 9 hours, 57 minutes and 1 second ago. |
The best advice I can give is: take your time. Too many times have I, and no doubt countless others, steamed into a situation, thinking that it'll all work itself out. It isn't always so. Plan ahead and at least try and have some sort of game plan. As for your list of things a character should be able to do by the time they eneter the pyramid, I'm really not so sure. "Obliterate creatures in melee." I wish. There's always going to be a lot of monsters than you can't take down in one hit. Also, a wizard at level 13 is a lot different to a barbarian at level 13. Not all types can be lumped into the same category "Obliterate creatures at a distance, especially undead. And have more than one method of obliterating them." It' be nice, and usually, any person would have bows trained up. But if I'm a fighting class, I have no objections to sticking my boot firmly up their undead ass. "Be able to run fast." Always a boost, but I generally tend to get burdened down with all my junk. I must be a junk whore. "Have a high literacy score." As long as I can read a scroll I'm happy. I don't need my barbarian to be a literary whizz. After all, he's not going to cast spells, and isn't about to enter a spelling bee. My wizard on the other hand..... "Be very good at detecting/avoiding traps." Easy enough. Talk to Yergius, and every now and then, whack a point or two into it. "Have teleport control and strong resistances." All gained in good time. Make use of whatever you can find. Elemental gauntlets, coloured clothes/weapons, crowning, corpses. As for teleport control, if you see a blink dog, kick it...wait for its friends to appear, and then hope a corpse falls. "Have no detectable corruption at this point." Corruption, like Darren says, is inevitable. Don't worry about it. Unless its poison hands. Just make sure you keep certain bits. Ladies and Gentleman, take my advice. Pull down your pants, and slide on the ice. |
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Worst player... ever Unregistered user |
Thanks for all the responses. There's a lot of good info on this thread (plus in the other section that I've also been looking at) You're right in thinking that I've been pretty unspoiled. For example, I didn't know until recently that Yergius was actually pretty useful and I should stop killing him. Or how to create holy water. Or that I didn't need to kill Griff Bloodaxe directly in order to succeed in the dwarven graveyard quest. There's actually quite a bit I didn't know... and I was fine with it, but I've decided now that I want to see what the rest of the game is like before I die IRL. :) I tend to do best with Wizards and Necromancers, but for some reason I've always found them more boring to play. I'll try and develop one now and rack up some gear from the ID before trying anything too dangerous. With teleport control, I had written my first post right after I had gotten a pretty good character to the CoC graveyard who was afflicted with uncontrolled teleportitis from corruption. IMO teleportitis is a death sentence without control. I'd take ANYTHING over that, including poison hands. Imagine what walking through the animated forest is like with teleportitis... I did it yesterday. I'll try running some characters with the info I got from here, and see how it works out. I'll put up an flg if I am still completely hopeless. Thanks again! |
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noob Registered user Last page view: 5931 days, 16 hours, 25 minutes and 38 seconds ago. |
There are quite some hidden features that are hard to discover by oneself (partially because one wouldn't expect some interactions being covert by the game). And there are unexpected dangers someone unspoiled won't be prepared to that can kill even a high level hero really fast (for example in certain temples). But being spoiled can't be undone and will ruin the surprises. Maybe it would be best getting some more subtile hints on the forums instead of reading the guidebook. Perhaps somebody should write a beginners guide (kind of advanced manual - not too spoily but hinting on some easily missed aspects)... |
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F50 Registered user Last page view: 5479 days, 4 hours, 38 minutes and 50 seconds ago. |
Try Paladins. They are melee-oriented (at least if you play dwarf), can cast spells quite well, start with high PV. 10 PV and decent Toughness will secure your early and Dwarvish Paladins can start out with more than that and have decent toughness (unlike, say, Elves). Kill barbarians to attain regular arrows. Pick up all grey (ie. metal) arrows, they aren't regular ones and can be *very useful*. Talk to the Druid, knowledge is the better power. if you NEED teleport control so that you don't receive the death sentence... Spoiler go to the puppy cave (talk to the tiny girl in terrinyo (spell?) to get there), and descend to the wide-open level (PC:5). Kill things until you find a blink dog. Name that blink dog. Kill all of the unnamed dogs he summons but do not kill the named blink dog (you have to name dogs yourself). After you have killed ~30 blink dogs, name an entire group or to of dogs to make summoning go faster (until 20 have been killed, no summoned blink dogs will themselves summon). If at any time you find a blink dog corpse eat it. The corpse grants teleport control. You NEED to talk to the Mad Minstrel if you are unspoiled. Decode his messages. One about "Bee-ware" is *very important* and will result in death later if you do not heed his warning. Some other notes: Spellcaster: Note your own color and always use spells on monsters that are an '@' symbol of your own color. Don't expect to do much in melee. Fighter: There will always be opponents too tough for you to take on. Be sure to run from them when you are too weak to face them. TRAIN ARROWS, you'll need them. Be wary of any named monster. The ramblings of F50: On monsters: AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE the dark-green bull, 'F'. Watch out for the ghoulishly-grey 'z', the floating-aye 'e', any 'm' imic-ally, ridiculously strange-colored items, and the white 'j'. All are similar monsters. Kherab does not easily become a Kebab. Shopkeepers are not to be messed with except by the spoiled or high-level. Avoid any place with blue 'Y' until you are powerful enough to defeat the blue 'Y'. misc: Any place that is non-descript is anything but. Burn the old, heat the cold, cool the heat, missiles can't be beat. '&' shall neither be burnt nor corroded. Before the CoC, protective items ought, To protect you more than 10, any item is well brought. Finally, don't wish for "sheep". :P "If the bread weights that much in the draklor chain, then it's no wonder so many die of starvation. AND - what kind of IRON RATION weights as much as an iron shield?! A dinner for four, oven included? ;)" -Maelstrom [Edited 1 time, last edit on 12/17/2007 at 15:45 (GMT -5) by F50] |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4071 days, 13 hours, 55 minutes and 32 seconds ago. |
Make an orcish barbarian. Get Healing. To get Healing, either become neutral and lure the mad carpenter to Jharod, the healer or get the quest to kill the healer from Hotzenplotz, kill the healer, and talk to Kranf Niest (take off your orcish helmet before, though). An orcish barbarian with Healing should be able to ace the game, as long as you stay the hell away from ghosts. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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BrasilianWeirdVideos Registered user pron knight Last page view: 5170 days, 10 hours, 45 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
Another very good combination for beginners is high elf archer.. you start with very good protection (at least +5 dv), a long bow (+2/+2ish) and a lot of arrows.. just press T and kill everyone ;) Spoiler ..and if you run out of arrows, just wander in plain squares and kill some barbarians. Oh.. and welcome to this board! :) |
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F50 Registered user Last page view: 5479 days, 4 hours, 38 minutes and 50 seconds ago. |
use ["SPOILER"] html tags for spoilers please (just remove the quotes)! "If the bread weights that much in the draklor chain, then it's no wonder so many die of starvation. AND - what kind of IRON RATION weights as much as an iron shield?! A dinner for four, oven included? ;)" -Maelstrom [Edited 1 time, last edit on 12/17/2007 at 19:11 (GMT -5) by F50] |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4242 days, 13 hours, 13 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
What I'd really recommend for someone who wants to explore the game without spoiling themselves too much is save-scumming. There's simply so many things that'll kill you out without notice, you'll have a much easier time save-scumming to let you get to grips with the game. Once you've completed the game save-scumming you can then start spoiling yourself properly and advancing up to play without any scumming. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4071 days, 13 hours, 55 minutes and 32 seconds ago. |
I only got as far as the animated forest with save-scumming. I then got fed up with dying all the time, stopped playing for a while, then restarted vowing never to savescum again... I don't think it helps all that much. It's like learning to ride a bicycle with those small extra tires (I'll be damned if I know how to call them in English) you have as a kid. They help you not to fall, but they don't help you to really learn to ride a bicycle. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Soirana Registered user Chaos Freak Last page view: 4152 days, 18 hours, 30 minutes and 13 seconds ago. |
My unspoiled playings ended on level bellow Casino. My first experience with Ki-Rin and death rays. After that i downloaded guide and read it for good. If you ask me I do not regret. A root is a flower that disdains fame. Kahlil Gibran(1883-1931) |
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Worst Player... ever Registered user Last page view: 4695 days, 13 hours, 5 minutes and 58 seconds ago. |
Save scumming would bore me to tears... say I play for 45 minutes and get killed. Playing the first 45 minutes of that backup save would be absolute torture for me... it would be something I wouldn't look forward to doing, and it would get me out of playing. It's the reason I lose interest in nearly all of the traditional RPG's that I don't beat. Plus we all have our little quirks as to what is appropriate and what isn't. If I eventually beat the game using spoilers but with the original character making it all the way through, then I consider that to be OK. But getting my first win through save-scumming would cheapen the game overall for me. It's not necessarily logical, but it's my personal level of ethics. (Those little wheels on bikes are called training wheels) :) |
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F50 Registered user Last page view: 5479 days, 4 hours, 38 minutes and 50 seconds ago. |
If you need any help with a particular area of the game just ask. The spoiled forum members would be glad to help. "If the bread weights that much in the draklor chain, then it's no wonder so many die of starvation. AND - what kind of IRON RATION weights as much as an iron shield?! A dinner for four, oven included? ;)" -Maelstrom [Edited 1 time, last edit on 12/18/2007 at 13:43 (GMT -5) by F50] |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4242 days, 13 hours, 13 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
I understand perfectly not wanting to use save-scumming, it just helps some new players (I certainly relied on it at first, and made some of the most hideously stupid mistakes, like wasting a wand of wishing on things like spellbooks of Create Item because I thought it must be a cool spell, and PoCC because I didn't know what SoCRs were). I'd just recommend not spoiling yourself too much because although the game has some deadly surprises, it also has some really fun ones, and seeing everything for the first time really is exhilarating. (I call the little wheels supports or stabilisers, but we all know what you mean anyway :P I never had them when learning to ride - I got a hurt a lot instead. There's probably some ADOM analogy in there somewhere...) Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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THC842 Registered user Last page view: 4489 days, 12 hours, 49 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
played for about 9 years, no wins, got to d:48 once (to spoily?), and rely heavily on save scumming. Im not the worst but, u wont see me in ADOM olympiad!!!! |
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Nightmare Registered user Soul Calibur 2 Last page view: 4602 days, 3 hours, 18 minutes and 36 seconds ago. |
That's the thing I hate about save-scum characters. If you haven't backed up in a while, and something awful happens (quest giver dies, item destruction, stat drains) or you die. Then you're forced to go through all the things you did already. This game, while quite fun and full of surprises, can be extremely tedious at some points. Like if you just spent hours digging ore then smithing, then oops your character dies, well guess what? Gotta do it allllllll over. "As for me, I feel priveleged to be among the only species able to make scientific inquiries." -unknown "Be sure to keep your distance if you don't have resistance." -DG |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 4900 days, 15 hours, 30 minutes and 18 seconds ago. |
I save-scummed when I started playing. It was very useful for helping to figure out things like pool effect messages and things like that. I found that way to be much more enjoyable than reading from a guide. After I learned the ropes about how to handle most monsters though, I stopped. The game is a lot more fun without save-scumming. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |