Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / General / Religion and all that Jazz
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3748 days, 22 hours, 15 minutes and 47 seconds ago. |
If you can't remember your past lives, why should you gain wisdom from them? Wisdom comes from experience, and experience from memory, after all... And PS ;) I look like a lot of people. I have a very generic sort of face... Die Gedanken sind Frei [Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/9/2002 at 18:42 (GMT -5) by Iridia] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 7 hours, 53 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
As I understand it, your soul remembers, even if your consciousness does not. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/11/2002 at 15:16 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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C Registered user Last page view: 6286 days, 13 hours, 36 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
Yeah, I think that's the way it works. Prickle don't use my name alright coward. |
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 Damon Registered user Last page view: 7728 days, 19 hours, 14 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
That's what I believe too Greatr White! There is no way we could die and never come back. That place where we were before we were born, that has no name, will be returned too when we die. Out of nowhere we'll be born again and have no recollection of what happened in our previous life. Just like when we wake up the next morning I guess, only it is our soul that rests this time. Beth, give up, some of us are beyond such petty insults. |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1648 days, 3 hours, 20 minutes and 40 seconds ago. |
I didn't know she was so young. I guess she doesn't know better. |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7304 days, 7 hours, 36 minutes and 52 seconds ago. |
Poor Beth, I wonder if many other girls suffer from her frustation disorder. LS |
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C(ORuseMDPC) Unregistered user |
Whatever people belive, anyway on Beth, she has a nice RICH family, so I wouldn't consider her poor, she acts the way she does to get attention. |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 3 days, 13 hours, 34 minutes and 2 seconds ago. |
Poor have a double meaning last I checked... Anyway back on subject: Personaly I find the notion of re-incarnation if possible even more absurd than the notion of an eternal afterlife... What does it help that your "soul" remembers your past lives? If you live each life as a different person wich one is YOUR personality... And I don't buy that you have the same personality each time, even minor brain dammage can change a person's personality so living a whole new life in a new body sure as heck would... And how can your soul gain experience if you don't remember anything while you live, you'll just end up doing all the same mistakes over and over and your soul will will be stuck on "level 1" as it where, even if you have it all figured out before you die, you'll do all the newbie mistakes all over again in the next life, no real acumulation of knowledge or anyting... And where does all the "new" souls come from, the population is increasing fast... Not to mention where would all the "left over" souls go if there where not enough births to cover the losses after a major disaster? Just float around in "limbo" waiting for a new body? Not to mention what will happen when the sun goes out and everyting on Earth croaks... Would kinda suck for those who where just about to reach Nirvana (or whatever) if there where nowhere to be re-born to... Oh right... 20 lies, better just round off there then :) Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7304 days, 7 hours, 36 minutes and 52 seconds ago. |
I have answers for you Jan but you must understand that it is only my belief and I cannot really say if it is fact, but I feel deep down it is real. Your soul gains wisdom through every life it travels through. Sometimes we find we have exceptionally good talants at things we've never attempted before and are swerved to awareness of it through our things like interests or through dreams. Sometimes we neglect past life experiences because we just fail to remember at all. Prodigies however seem to have great exceptional knowledge which I believe they obtained in their previous life to such an extent that it survived through death and was made more obvious to them. When our talants reach a certain level it never leaves us. Brain functions such as memory are mostly matter based and hold the soul back, it's as if the mind contaminates the soul making us lose true awareness and recollection, this makes humans know things such as greed and desire to material and illusions don't don't last forever. We don't consciously remember our mistakes from previous lives but we are unconsciously swerved away from them. Brain damage only effects us physically for that particuler life, spiritually we are untouched. Your soul doesn't actually have a true personality, it's form is defined through exposing itself to physical life where in time it finds itself through the happiest and successful parts of each life and fit them together like a jigsaw puzzle to form an eternal picture. This is what the soul strives for to move to the next realm, it's timeless form may take as something like an angel or mythological hero, maybe. I believe that souls do actually just float around in limbo until a host can be found, new ones just appear from other realms weather they have ascended or descended. Many realms may evolve the soul in a unique way, Earth might just be one of them. When the sun croaks the entire Earth and every realm orbiting the planet will be destroyed and souls will no longer be exposed to that unique place, but since space is infinate, there might be places like it elsewhere. Nirvana is supposed to be a state of mind where the mind is at one with the soul. They crave not anymore for material wealth and are abundant in spiritual and eternal virtues. To escape the human mind it takes a lot of concentration and medidation but it is possible for anyone to do it. LS |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7304 days, 7 hours, 36 minutes and 52 seconds ago. |
Sorry, I couldn't cram it down a bit... LS |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 3 days, 13 hours, 34 minutes and 2 seconds ago. |
Ah, so people re-incarnate to an infinate number of other worlds too... At least that would explain why a lot of people are still complete morons after hundreds of thousands of generations (as in no previous "human" experience) and solve the "where to put exess souls" problem all at once :) So to make an analogy: If I where an ADOM character my soul would be the player. "I" wouldn't know, but if my soul have played ADOM enough it will know how to avoid the major pitfalls and so "I" benefit none the less... But if my soul descide to play a different game next time none of the ADOM skills will be of much use... (hmm, is it a sign of too narrow interests when you use computer games analogies for everyting? :D) Not as spaced out as I originaly though I'll grant you, it makes a scertain sence (as long as you buy into the soul part)... Can't help but think it cheapens life though, with the afterlife religions life at least have a purpose and you only get one shot at it... Reincarnation soulds a bit more like a joyride though the multiverse where the only goal is to try as much as possible, individual lives become insignificant... Is this getting long again? Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 7 hours, 53 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Re: What the soul learns I don't know if reincarnation occurs, but if it does . . . Perhaps the spiritual soul can remember what the physical mind does not. The soul could interact/influence through the body and therefore continue to learn. I don't think the soul would be put in the same position to make the same mistakes. I think one's soul would be placed in a situation where it can learn the things it needs to learn. If it didn't learn something the last time, I think 'God' (whatever force controls where souls go) would say: "You didn't learn this lesson when I tried to teach it to you as a poor asian workman; I think you will be able to learn it (or increase your understanding) as a disabled white business woman" (I doubt it is that simplistic, but I hope you get the ghist of my idea) [Edited 5 times, last edit on 11/19/2002 at 11:11 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Prickle Pear Registered user Killer fruit Last page view: 7191 days, 6 hours, 41 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Yep that's the way it goes Caladriel! The new and improved MTV...my ass! Where's Bevis & Butthead? |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 7 hours, 53 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Re: Number of souls vs number of people (Where do souls come from/go to) Personally, I do not believe one would have to be reincarnated in the future. If God is outside of time, could not your soul be, as well? Perhaps your soul's "curriculum" will next place you soul in an infant from the first century who will grow up to be a Roman Legionaire. If souls can be reincarnated backwards and forwards in time then 'God' (whatever force controls where souls go)could house your soul in any of the vessels that ever were or that ever will be. The idea of waiting for an available vessel becomes moot. [Edited 3 times, last edit on 11/15/2002 at 18:01 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7304 days, 7 hours, 36 minutes and 52 seconds ago. |
Hmmm, time is an interesting concept. I'm not sure if God is outside of time, something like that is a factor to order events by - I don't really think it's a physical enough aspect to have a inside or outside. Astrophysics says that the big bang created matter, energy and time, so outside the parimeter of the big bangs expansion, time does not exist. LS |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 7 hours, 53 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Luke: What do you think of the ideas in Perceptions of Time/Space Thought: We are bound by time and cause&effect. In a sense, you can think of it as an equation or graph, where any point in the graph can only effect points that are ahead/above it along the 'time' axis. However, if something existed outside of the equation, It could place things anywhere within the graph. We can't perceive how things would thus be ordered. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/20/2002 at 09:44 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7304 days, 7 hours, 36 minutes and 52 seconds ago. |
Perception of Time/Space talks about dimensions at one point, it would be interesting though to hear some peoples idea of reality. Dimensions are defined through humans since they are the only beings we know that have sufficient reasoning. The 3 dimensions that define shapes though is more relative to those who can visualise, so if the whole human race was blind would these dimensions still exist? The point I'm raising is that dimensions are either real without humans or invented by humans. I believe in a way time is something that humans have invented as they're aware of routines and re-occuring events. But does it really exist? It seems just a convinient factor to order events by, if no events happened and everything was still, would time still be a concept? LS |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 7 hours, 53 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Luke: I'm going to move this to Perceptions of Time/Space |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 7 hours, 53 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
In Perceptions of Time and Space calvin wrote: iridia, if we have the power to choose, what determines our choices we make? our enviroment(society, your culture, ect) and our genes. what determines our genes/environment? the genes/environment of those before us. so if you go back to the first man weather its creation or evolution, if its evolution go back to the first form of life that we originated from. god created it from pretty much nothing, so he had to program every aspect of the creature because where else would anything come from? same with the environment that creature was placed in (earth). so in the long run god really choose everything that has ever happened with the human race, because he is omniscient so when he is programming that first creature he sees what each "code" of programming will do 5000, 100,000 or 2 million years from then. |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 7 hours, 53 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Calvin: Aye, there's the rub. The answer I would give is that our choices are not determined by our genes or environment. I will certainly agree that our choices are influenced by such physical factors, but the actual choices, themselves, IMHO, are made by the soul. BMB, the sould is not bounded by the physical laws/rules of logics of this universe. You could have every atom, electron, quark, hadron, etc. in the exact same position, and the sould might not make the same choice (or learn the same thing) Thus, if the physical environment only influences the soul, as opposed to controling it, then we get back to the idea that God may know all your choices ahead of time, but It did not make those choices for you. |
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calvin Unregistered user |
im curious, what exactly makes you beleive souls even exist?(for anyone who beleives in souls) |
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SuperLobster Registered user The Mad Monk Last page view: 7702 days, 10 hours, 41 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
Just a side note on this whole reincarnation kick and the soul being placed in a life to "learn" a new concept... Would we not be saying that an indiviual was given this particular go round to learn all about killing fellow beings (mass murder, etc.) or that one was placed to learn how it feels to be subjected to a semi-random act of violence (possibly in the last go-round you were the killer, now you get be the killee)? You want to fight? Fight me! HAHAHA |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 7 hours, 53 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
calvin: *whew* bunch of reasons I suppose. Will attempt < 20 lines - One is just religous. My experiences in life have lead me to believe in God/Bible/etc. Belief in souls comes from those beliefs - Permutations of DesCartes. Alternative to souls is that we are purely physical. Like rocks. However, I hear myself think. I create entire existances that are separate from this world. - Feelings. My physical feelings seem to differ from my emotional ones. I cannot control feeling hungry or frightened or cold, but I can affect feeling angry or sad or happy or love - Accountability. If we are purely physical, then we have no choices. I don't blame or credit a rock for falling on my foot or staying balanced. I do find myself blaming and crediting people for hurting or helping others. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/26/2002 at 09:36 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 7 hours, 53 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Lobster: I dunno if reincarnation occurs, but if it does . . . The implication seems to be that you you are supposed to learn how to be a "better" person or being. I doubt that any definition of "better" includes serial killing. |
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calvin Unregistered user |
caladriel, how do we not have any choices if we are purely physical? |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7304 days, 7 hours, 36 minutes and 52 seconds ago. |
The part of our mind that makes us aware and conscience is energy based. The same energy force is supposed to be the cause of imagination. Brain waves such as Beta, Alpha, Theta and Delta waves are also energy based needed to stimulate essential functions throughout the mind to help many things. I believe this energy is contained within this body to animate it. It is the soul controlling matter to interface with new environments and thus gain very unique experinces. LS |
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Luke Registered user Apprentice Last page view: 7304 days, 7 hours, 36 minutes and 52 seconds ago. |
The mind harnesses one the most greatest powers in the universe, it can create - just like the big bang. I've posted a theory one another thread more about this in Imagination Vs Reality. LS |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4690 days, 7 hours, 53 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Calvin: If we are purely physical, then all our actions are the result of chemical reactions in our brains. I had no choice when I shot that un armed man, because choice does not exist. The connections in my brain were such that when acted on by the complex stimuli of seeing somebody else win the race they triggered chemical reaction resulting in the muscle movements to go get a gun and fire it. That set of connection was built up by the chemical makeup of my genes and the feedback loops which occurred over my life. Let me try again. When a rock falls, does it have a choice not to fall? No, it was following gravity. When a rock falls on a stick in wet leaves, does the rock and stick, as a unit have c hoice about the stick sliding away? No, they are just following physics. When a rock falls on a stick in wet leaves, causing the stick to slide into an acorn, does the rock, stick and acorn as a unit have a choice about the acorn flinging up in the air? I can create a more and more complex scenario. The chemical composition of the brain is simply a vastly complex scenario. |
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SuperLobster Registered user The Mad Monk Last page view: 7702 days, 10 hours, 41 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
Caladriel - Just for grins on your points concerning why you belive in the soul (this is for the sake of debate, nothing personal intended)... Does one truly have control over ones emotional feelings? We have about the exact same level of control over our emotional feelings as we do our physical feelings. Do you have any say in the matter if, for example you see a person you love/like involved with another individual? Not really. You would probably feel hurt/jealous. But you don't control that. You control how you react to that emotional response (Do I shoot them or just walk away)! Same as if you are hungry. You don't control that. You control your response, to eat or not to eat (eat in my usual case!). Same choices any organic being has, though some just are better this type of thing... So we are, in essence purely physical specimens with a quicker, more advanced chemical response system. You want to fight? Fight me! HAHAHA [Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/26/2002 at 11:26 (GMT -5) by SuperLobster] |
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calvin Unregistered user |
yeah, free will is an illusion i agree with you. but thats no reason to beleive souls exist, but i guess it would be comforting to know you do have a choice with a soul. |
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