Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / General / My take on religion
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1657 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Have you guys heard of George Carlin? His bits on religion have good points to them. "If there is a god, I think he is, at least, lazy and, maybe, doesn't give a {cnesored). If this is the best that god can do, I am not impressed. This is something I'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude, and in a decently run society, this god would have been out on his all powerful arse a long time ago" I was a christian, now I don't care. Religion has no place in my life. For one thing, it costs too much "He's all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-consuming, but he just can't handle money" and it forces people to act a certain way. Religion tells people what to say and what not to say. What to do and what not to do. I'm having enough problems trying to control myself without a religion trying to do it for me. Religion has also convinced us to believe the impossible. Take christianity; christianity "has convinced us, that there's an invisible man, watching everything we do every minute of every day. And there are 10 things that he does not want you to do. And if you do one of these 10 things, he has a place full of fire and burning and torture death and suffering and malice where he will send you to burn and cry and scream and suffer, till the end of time.......but he loves you" Have a happy sabbath Ryan Klein |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 15 minutes and 54 seconds ago. |
Ryan: Are you sure this was George Carlin? He is normally more clever. He has a great bit on the evolution of the term "Shell Shock" to "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder." I am of the opinion that you posted this for fun, but I have to ask what are your beliefs? How much do you agree with Carlin's shpeal, or do you like it because it touches on frustrations you feel in a way that doesn't require much contemplation? Why would you think God is lazy? What has Christianity cost you? What exactly do you think is impossible within Christianity's teachings (as opposed to, say, time dilation due to relative speeds) [Edited 3 times, last edit on 9/20/2002 at 14:20 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Jan Erik Administrator Last page view: 3 days, 9 hours, 37 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
Well I find such bits funny I've heard simmilar stuff from other comedians (that bit about the invisible man sound very fammiliar). HOWEVER I don't think you can take such jokes seriously enough to use them in a (serious) debate about religion... Comedians are in the comedy business, not the preaching of truth business even if they do have politicaly loaded jokes. Basicaly they excadurate a point for a living... I agree with the underlying "philosophy" however his points are to a large degree simply wrong... It's for exampe not God who handle the Churches finances... And the world is a pretty fantastic place. It's the free will of the humans who have caused most of the missery and suffering. Can't realy blame God for that, wether you believe in him or not (especialy if you don't). If he where to intervene whenever someone where about to do something "bad" what would be the point in having a free will? Jan Erik Mydland HoF admin [Edited 2 times, last edit on 9/20/2002 at 17:11 (GMT -5) by Jan Erik] |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1657 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
It was, in part, a joke. I'm kinda lost on religion. Christianity didn't work. All 8 or 9 septs of christianity made me feel inferior. I swear I was the only purson in those churches who wasn't on fire for god. I've stopped caring about religion. I really don't have the time on sunday (or saturday when I was a seven day adventist.) My philosophy is to treat others as one would want to be treated. BTW I quoted some of carlin's stuff from memory. It might not have sounded familliar |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 14 hours, 38 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
Your philosophy sounds kinda like "love your neighbor as yourself"... which is, as you know, one of the biggies in Christianity (bigger than the 10 Commandments, though loving your neighbor doesn't usually mean you kill him or steal from him...) Anyway... I sure hope you don't think Christianity is all about rules, because if you do then those were some pretty messed-up Christians you talked to!... Anyway. Welcome to Religious ADOM Players Central! :) Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1657 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Messed up christians indeed. That's right. Some christians I knew were less uptight but most were "don't do that you sinner." I have nothing against christianity in general. I just don't like most of the people that I meet. To meet a religious person who acts like a normal human being is rare (at least in northern California.) Most of them act like I am a peasant who needs their help because god sent them to save me. I am not ready to take a stab at religion yet (most of the religious people I know condemn ADOM.) I don't mind discussing it here though. If you guys keep talking, I'll keep replying. If you haven't figured it out yet, the Carlin thing was my way of breaking the ice. I'm happy that most of you know him. |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 14 hours, 38 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
Man, you *really* need to meet some different religious people... Then again, maybe it's just California ;) They might think they're better than you because "God sent them to save you", but the fact is, they're not better than you, me, or anybody else. There's nothing special about them--what's special is their (and my) God! Unfortunately, a lot of people get stuck up just because they're saved, and forget that they're just as sinful as the rest of us. Only difference is, they've decided to let God forgive their sins. That's all. Really... I have got to apologize for some of those folks you've met. That's not the way Jesus would've acted, and it's not the way he wants us to act. A lot of Christians think RPGs are bad. That's because RPGs involve (to some degree, depending on the game) pretending to be a wizard or an evil character or whatever. So they think that's the same as actually *being* a wizard or an evil person and condemn both things. It's a matter of taking good laws ("don't kill innocent people") too far ("don't play a game in which you're an evil @ that kills an innocent t"). They're sincere, at least. I can't say much more for them. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1657 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
what denomination are you Iridia? Out of all the ones I've tried (Morman, SDA, Foursquare.... I can't remember all of them,) the people at the Foursquare church were the least arrogant (it was still bad, but they only mentioned it once an hour on average.) I still believe in the bible (it's the only religious thing that I've agreed with.) My problem is that I am really busy and I don't feel like going to a church to hear a pastor damn me to hell. Is it just me or has this become sort of a worship group? |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 14 hours, 38 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
LOL... yeah, quite a lot of us are Christians on here. I guess we took over the board... that happens when you have a common interest. Personally? I don't really like to associate myself with denominations. We all worship the same God, after all. (I could say Mormons and Catholics are separate religions though... anyway.) I've been to a lot of different churches and it's often a matter of the particular church, not the denomination, determining what they're like. What I believe (doctrinally) is closest to Baptist ideas, but "Baptist" can mean anything from hellfire-and-brimstone types to prim-and-proper society churches... And then (as in most denominations) there are some Baptists out there who are real (as in "not fake") about their faith. It takes some looking to find them though. Problem is, here in America church is a part of our culture. Lots of people go because everyone else does, because their parents did, because it's the social thing on Sundays. Most people under 30 (I'm 19 myself) don't get it, and I don't blame them. Going to church should be something you do because you're there for God, not to look good or impress the boss or get in with the right society group. I don't blame people for being disillusioned about religion. Fact is, though, God's real, and if you look for him he'll find you... even if some of the people who claim to worship him are a little weird. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1657 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
I guess what it all boils down to is following the bible. Churches have become almost like soap-operas here in California. It seems to be more important if this member was caught smoking and that member ate meat on a friday than Jesus loves us and love thy neighbor. Ironically, I'm 19 too. is that the average age of the posters here (18-30) |
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Guinea Registered user tWo-HeAdEd cHaOs WeAsEl Last page view: 6971 days, 23 hours, 32 minutes and 32 seconds ago. |
I would prefer that to be 17-30. (I'll be 18 in January) I can tell you that some of my friends were going to church each Sunday, because they thought that proves they believe in God. On the other hand, instead of praying, they joked quarreled, etc (not disturbing anyone else though, but that's not the point). By the time I stopped going to church (maybe I'll write why, but not this time). I guess they thought that they are better Christians than me, because they went to church, and I don't (on the other hand, some of them drink and smoke, and I don't). But now they started to realize that they were acting senseless. Not that they started praying - stopped going to church also. So my opinion is: if you feel you should attend to church, because you want to pray to God, do so. But if you're going to church because other people expect you to be there - than what's the point? |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1657 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
exactly. I believe that church used to mean worship. I don't know exactly when, but it has deevolved into a social hour. Praying and worshipping is best done where one feels most comfortable. I may give religion another chance when I meet people who don't have thier heads up thier butts and thier noses in the air (I mean literally "meet" as in person to person. You guys are differant. I doubt I'll ever actually meet any of you. It's the "world wide web" after all.) |
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Archangel(UNlog) Unregistered user |
Ryan Klein: You can only see your faith yourself. These guys here know what they're talking about. When you go to church, do not do it because other people say that you have to.Church is a place where you can be face to face with God(well actually you can face Him anywhere by praying)and think about Him. My point is: No one can tell you whether you truly believe or not. You should think about yourself. Personally, my faith is always a problem for me. How I'm I supposed to know if I really believe? All I know is that I want to believe. The question is if my faith is 'the right kind of faith'. I read the Bible when I feel like need it, I go to church when I feel like I need it. OK, I wrote this in a terrible hurry(during a lesson) so I suppose it's very unclear. Ask me if you want me to clarify this. -- |
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Kayamannorssi Unregistered user |
IMO: Religions are filthy spirits among politics and commercials. Serve The Living God and Live, Jah Rastafar Haile I Selassie I(power of trinity), Conquering Lion of Tribe of Judah, King of The Kings, Lord of Lords, Elect of God, Light of This World! |
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Tekki Registered user Last page view: 7346 days, 23 hours, 39 minutes and 38 seconds ago. |
I personally say if you have tried churches and do not like the oens you tried, read the Bible and decide for yourself. While church is very very good(depending on the church), it is by no means a requirement for salvation and if I had to choose between being someone who goes to church and never reads their bible, and someone who reads their bible and never goes to church, I would choose the latter. I used to go to a nondenominational church, but they were overly conservative, not allowing ANYTHING new in, such as modern songs or praise teams. I go to a Grace Brethren church and love it. Try a rather small church(100 people or less). I think you would enjoy them more. Find a church that takes things straight from the Bible, cause you know it's not wrong ;) You feel a surge of power. Suddenly your extraordinary carrying capacity fails you. You are crushed by the tons of luggage you are carrying. You die... Go here when you are on the forum to chat about Adom! http://koti.mbnet.fi/adrakon/chat.shtml |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1657 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Good show old boy. The only problem is finding a small church that 1) I agree with and like and 2) is on a bus route since I'll never be able to drive. |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 14 hours, 38 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
When my mom didn't let me go to church (long story) I used to hitch rides with people who did go... thankfully my mom did allow that, 'cause she didn't have to take me... Most people who are sincere about church will pick you up and take you. Do try to find someone who lives near you, though. Makes it easier to cancel when you want to sleep in. :) Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1657 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
I doubt that there are any churches that stay open at 3:00 in the morning. I'll probobly find a church when I go to my school in San Pablo (See the cyclops thread) |
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feilos Unregistered user |
I'm all down with all of you. Christainity have blockade itself from human advancement. It has burned the books of science in the pagan world (the library of Alexander, the Bible's Pauls book burnings) It has burned heretics, witches, other christians that the stake. (most advanced schools in the ancient times were pagan schools aka Greek/Roman/Eypgtian/Bablyon) Christainity created the Crusades...(a materialistic gain that blasted europe from the dark ages) and created words like Gihad...(holy war) The Holy Bible in which Christian hold dear... Preaches false science... The world is flat, it is four corners, and has pillars as foundation for which it rest upon. It is filled with incest (Did you know that Abraham married his half-sister <did he read the mosiac law, apprantly now>...thus his was cast out of his father's homeland <forcibly I bet!>) Deception is rewarded from the story Jacob and Esau... I could go all day but it's filled with rape, murder and genocide... All of the leaders have been bad... Solomon the wisest ever on earth at that time worshipped other gods. (Did God punish him? no he gave it to the people) David forcibly devised the rape of Beersheeba, and conspired to murder her husband. (Did God punsih him? no, have gave it to the people...talk about justice..give punishment for innocent citizens) Cain killed Abel but God forgave him and even cursing everybody who messes with him (talk about justice!) And to think this book is read by 3rd and 4th graders. (I think it's a conspiracy to open little kids mind to evil acts, opening their subconsious mind that: "hey if this guy or girl gets away with this why can't I?") No wonder why we have so much Teen Prenancies/Violence Anyway here are a few moderate websites that can prove my point. (most are documents, with biblical anottations so you can read the qoutes straight off this sick, badly rewritten book we call the bible.) The beef of bible contradictions, atrocities, sex, errors, contradictory verses http://web2.airmail.net/capella/aguide/ a document written in 1873 about bible morality? http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/charles_watts/bible_morality.html here's it parent page... http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/charles_watts/index.shtml another good bible morality site: http://www.palmyra.demon.co.uk/ii/biblemor.htm The Dark Bible: it's Morality And Paradoxes http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible5.htm More Paradoxes http://becomingone.org/gp/gp1a.htm Most people with low temperment or low IQ, or someone who was born and raised as christians will dismiss this as evil...hench, the word "stop reading those [evil] books". I think that we should, ever since Adam and Eve if you believe in it...They wanted to become more like God did they not! For them we are cursed...doom to live as mortals for eating the fruit of knowledge of good and evil... How does God know we will become evil? Why does the bible persist on us becoming like God? Analyze the bible and question God and the world as we see it. Read history, not just ask about it. As Americans did they know that their history as Christianity has conquered the "pagan" people of the 'New World', into summissive, downtrodden subjects (spanish natives, Navtive Americans). It has at one point in American history allowed Slavery and the chruches actually said 'slavery is ok, it's in the bible too' People make me sick with their "blind faith" "unquestioning faith" and fill themselves with religious fervor... From the Hippie Revolution, we did not learn how to make peace... only better drugs, sex and parental rebellion. Didn't we learn anything from the Crusades? if it's anything...it's that the middle-east got a lot booty. It's this hate(vengance) that still keep Palenstine and Isreal gridlocked win eternal war... That fuel the US and IRAG/Afghistan (Middle-east) war. If the US is a just country, why does it need a Coalition for war? Why does it need the backing of China, Russia, France, or Britian? Mr. President only want to go to war to prove to his daddy, and take vengence for his daddy. Last year or so he even ask the Nation for a 'Crusade', if you been sleeping see the Newsweek article. The Crusade now is still the same as it was back 1000 years ago. Religion is good as it fill the spirital needs of society, but as the greed part mixes in... It is only Blashemy and contradictions. |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1657 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
WOW!! I can't answer ALL of that. For one thing, I think we should've killed Saddam when we had the chance. Now it's biting us in the butt. Corruption breeds everywhere. ADOM has some good points on this. Time corrupts just as power corrupts. |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3758 days, 14 hours, 38 minutes and 24 seconds ago. |
This is mostly for the benefit of the others here; I doubt feilos is open-minded enough to listen... but here goes. 1. Christianity did NOT create the concept of "jihad". That started with Mohammed. 2. Don't blame everything the Church did in the Middle Ages on the Bible... that was also the time that people were burned for trying to translate the Bible into something the common people could read. Back then, the church was so messed up that I doubt they could properly have been called Christian at all. 3. Christianity is quite scientific... in fact, many of the pioneers of science were Christians. Even today there are scientists who believe in an intelligent-design origin for the universe. They use the Scientific method just like the rest. 4. "The four corners of the earth" and other statements like it are poetic language, mostly found in the psalms or prophetic books. It's figurative language. I don't accuse the Bible of being scientifically inaccurate any more than I would rush someone to the hospital if they'd said their hearts were breaking. 5. Abraham married his half-sister before there was ever a law against incest. That came much later, with Moses. Back then, closer to the Creation event, there probably wouldn't even have been an increased risk of birth defects. 6. Jacob thought he'd got away scot free... until he got a taste of his own medicine. After working seven years to marry Rachel, he got tricked into marrying her ugly sister instead! 7. God warned the people when they wanted a king, that there would be trouble because of their king... They got fair warning, and when their kings got them into trouble (David, for example), they took the damage. By the way... David's own son died thanks to the Bathsheba affair (though the baby went to heaven). 8. God punished Cain quite severely: No matter how hard he worked, Cain could never raise crops again. He spent the rest of his life homeless. Remember, this is before the death penalty, which was instituted with Noah. 9. Yes. The Bible is full of violence, rape, murder, and other assorted acts of malice. Why? Because it's about real people, and real people mess up. The Bible wasn't mean to be a sugar-coated story about nice folks. If it were, I'd be suspicious. 10. Those folks who wrote your web sites... they really, really need to get their heads on straight. They're quoting the Bible so far out of context it's not even funny! 11. I, and most Christians, don't think it's "evil" to question God. Questioning God is how I became a Christian in the first place, actually. 12. Religion (Christian or otherwise) is not the cause of the world's problems. Consider communism--Religion is pretty much taboo, but that didn't stop Tiennanmen Square. A better thing to blame the world's problems on is the fact that we're human, and we mess up, no matter what religion we do or don't follow. Long post. Sorry. *ducks* Die Gedanken sind Frei [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/3/2002 at 17:10 (GMT -5) by Iridia] |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1657 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Thanks Iridia for orginizing that a little better. I couldn't read everything that guy had too say (too much was scrunched together.) Sounded kinda like the SDA nut that I had to live with for a year. |
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feilos Unregistered user |
what u calling me a nut? whatever Ryan Klein, who can time to think about one-eyed cyclops and their IQ. thanks Iridia for sorting things for me. but i'm still pesky about it thought. alright, I have to give you the win on this one. Just wondering if you can quote some stuff that's wrong or what you think is wrong on the site...maybe into a new thread...I spell-check my writing about...and sayings...but ok, I seem like a nut. but at least i know history...and not creating or hiding it up. I'm an avid ADOMer so I'll not just a person who foray into Forums |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1657 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
I'm not calling you a nut. I'm comparing you to a Seven-Day Adventist nut that I had to live with. It sounded like a major rant that made no logical sense (as I said, it was all scrunched together.) What are you trying to say to me? Please use proper spelling and grammer. Otherwise it sounds like gibberish. |
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feilos Unregistered user |
kae, i'll have to probably open up Microsoft word and grammer-check my message. Hope you don't get antsy about it. |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1657 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Not especially. I just can't argue (debate) with you if I can't understand you |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 15 minutes and 54 seconds ago. |
Well, This is why I always start threads with a request to keep posts to about 20 lines or less. Felios: I can't bring myself to read through that entire thing. Seeing as the very first line about the Bible is wrong, I'll respond to that and assume the rest are equally unfounded: Nowhere in the Bible is there the claim that the world is flat. RTFM (ie. get your facts right). Iridia: You know I can't let your first statment stand. Muhammad has nothing to do with Jihads or Holy Wars. Additionally, Jihads and Holy Wars are not espoused anywhere in the Koran. RTFM to you, too. :-P [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/4/2002 at 13:09 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1657 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
Is there a site that lets you download the bible? If I'm gonna keep up with this discussion (at least part way) I should have ammo to shoot with. Other books (Koran etc.) would also be appreciated. RKade |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4700 days, 15 minutes and 54 seconds ago. |
I think it is rather dangerous to simply do some searches on the web. People usually have a set opinion, and their searches reflect this. Since they only look for things with the intention of supporting their ideas, they usually only find things that support their ideas. IMHO, it takes more than searching for the word "Crusade" in the Bible to develop an honest opinion about what the Christian perception of God thinks of war. Don't try to study a Religion with the idea of proving or disproving your opinions of it. Study a Religion to try to understand it. Don't just do searches of the religous text. Talk to followers and teachers of it, etc. Learn the religion's History. Study debates/discussion between its members. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/4/2002 at 13:23 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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Ryan Klein Registered user Because I said so is why! Last page view: 1657 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes and 17 seconds ago. |
No. No. No. Is there a site where I can download the unabridged Bible (along with other holy books) I want to look stuff up on my own. I want to form my own opinions about holy script but first I need the holy scripts. The enlarged Bible is expensive Sorry for the confusion |
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