Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / ADOM / Curses and Chaos
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nevered Registered user Last page view: 6318 days, 3 hours, 39 minutes and 51 seconds ago. |
Why does a blessed bit of equipment have the same effect on a chaotic character as it does on a lawful one? why does a cursed bit of equipment have the same effect on a lawful character as it does on a chaotic one? I have an idea: for lawful characters, blessed items are good, and cursed items are bad and cannot be removed. for chaotic characters, cursed items are good, and blessed items are bad and cannot be removed. it would be an interesting game dynamic: if you have all blessed equipment, you will have to make sure that throughout the game, you remain lawful, otherwise all of your equipment will work against you. likewise with chaotic characters. newtral characters would not recieve bonuses from anything, and all armor would be treated the same. if, however, a neutral character started getting a lot of blessed or cursed items, the player would want to make a concerted effort to switch their alignment, to make best use of the items they have been gathering. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 42 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
Soemthing "cursed" should be bad for anyone, whether good or evil or neutral. The term "blessed" can seem wrong I guess, but you can change it to something you find more neutral sounding. Also chaotic gods can give blessings to their followers - it's just that in our culture we see blessed as equalling good gods. Not so in ADOM. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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 Kirbot Registered user BattleHax0r of Devastation Last page view: 6095 days, 13 hours, 54 minutes and 18 seconds ago. |
To further what Darren says: When a corpse begins to rot, it becomes cursed. I don't imagine a chaotic PC enjoying rotten bat more than a lawful PC, so I suppose blessed/uncursed/cursed status is more of an intrinsic happy-value than of something actually related to the chaos-law continuum. Molach: "I like to have 200+ hp and over 5 good healin potions when I do [the fire] temple. AND some way of killing the Wyrm" Morio: "Some way of killing the worm is recommended, yes :D" |
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???? Unregistered user |
true good helps everyone, true evil harms everyone. |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4279 days, 6 hours, 24 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
There is an exception to the blessed-good and cursed-evil routine: Dark elves will get more saturation from cursed spider bread and less from blessed. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Taz Registered user Registered user Last page view: 5236 days, 8 hours, 39 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
i guess that blessed means your god (whether he's good, evil or neutral) makes that item better, regardless of alignment. cursed would be the opposite. for some reason or another, orcish paladins popped in my mind when i read this thread. chaotic paladins, but they serve their god. Taz: A potion of gain attributes (4s) is lying here. Suddenly a stone block hits your head! Something on the ground is smashed to pieces! PeanutGod: Awwww no! How harsh is that! This is where you need the artefact 'mop and bucket'. |
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Maelstrom Registered user The Knight of the Black Rose Last page view: 3328 days, 1 hour, 11 minutes and 31 seconds ago. |
What does being chaotic and/or lawfull got to do with good and evil? Just 'cause I don't follow the rules doesn't mean I'm evil, does it? :P A pessimist sees a dark tunnel. An optimist sees a light at the end of that tunnel. A realist sees a train. And the train driver sees three idiots on the tracks. |
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ej Unregistered user |
Lawful can be very evil, the Nazis could be considered lawful. |
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*Chaos Muffin* Registered user Chaotic Awesome Last page view: 6335 days, 10 hours, 20 minutes and 41 seconds ago. |
And Victor Von Doom (Doctor Doom) would also be Lawful *<< Words go here >>* |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3966 days, 14 hours, 26 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
No, no, you guys are thinking of a dual-axis alignment system... in ADOM, Lawful=Good and Chaotic=Evil... stuff like D&D's "Chaotic Good" or "Lawful Evil" would just pan out to Neutral. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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???? Unregistered user |
I don't really like the alingment system of adom. For me, total order doesn't really seem like good thing. (I usually try to play a neutral character, but end up being lawful because of doing good quests, and that really annoys me.) |
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Ekaterin Moderator on this forum Last page view: 5976 days, 11 hours, 17 minutes and 39 seconds ago. |
????, if you seem to be close to turning lawful, do something evil (like killing a beggar or luring someone out of Terinyo and killing them) to get back to N= before doing the next good quest. Also, you don't need to do all the quests, and in particular, I don't think there's any use in bringing the puppy back alive if you don't want to be lawful. Staying neutral gets easier later on. Keep picking everyone's pocket to keep your alignment down, and when it starts getting too close to chaotic, put on the amulet of order for a while. |
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Cristus Registered user The smallest giant alive Last page view: 6188 days, 2 hours, 10 minutes and 21 seconds ago. |
It seems to me that my characters are following the laws to be and stay lawful, not out of goodness but rather to avoid transgressing the law (I'm usually lawful- easier to get crown). This is not unlike the real world where people tend to follow the laws to stay out of trouble but if given a chance to transgress a law without being caught, people usually don't even think twice. This can't work in ADOM because there are gods who watch you at all time ! All your base are belong to us. |
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ej Unregistered user |
all self righteous bastards ;). And it works in adom because you can just wear an amulet of order to stay L+ all the time, and the gods dont have an ai. |
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???? Unregistered user |
I think doing what is right is a lot more important than obeying laws. |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4279 days, 6 hours, 24 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
Might be so, but who decides what is right? Anyway, in ADOM being lawful equals being good. You could say that the Law of Ancardia has the first and foremost rule: "Be good to other people". You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Cristus Registered user The smallest giant alive Last page view: 6188 days, 2 hours, 10 minutes and 22 seconds ago. |
True, I was forgeting the amulet of order ... That's one way to get away with it :-) All your base are belong to us. |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5352 days, 11 hours, 36 minutes and 43 seconds ago. |
ADOM is simplified version of AD&D's alignment system. Lawful = Good Neutral = middle Chaotic = Evil in ADOM. In AD&D you have 9 alignments, Good/Neutral/Evil for each of Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic. (Neutral Neutral was called True neutral I think. So I'd say Nazis were indeed lawful....but lawful evil. They used law and order to oppress the weak. Police state. Chaotic good might be something like the anarchists in the Catalonia area during the spanish civil war - no laws, therefore no crimes. Everyone helps out what they can/want for the good of society. I dont know what that makes me. Neutral good mabye. Or lawful neutral. |
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Kirbot Registered user BattleHax0r of Devastation Last page view: 6095 days, 13 hours, 54 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
I be chaotic good. Rawr. Molach: "I like to have 200+ hp and over 5 good healin potions when I do [the fire] temple. AND some way of killing the Wyrm" Morio: "Some way of killing the worm is recommended, yes :D" |
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*Chaos Muffin* Registered user Chaotic Awesome Last page view: 6335 days, 10 hours, 20 minutes and 42 seconds ago. |
Me am Chaos Good Muffin :P *<< Words go here >>* |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4279 days, 6 hours, 24 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
Dunno. Probably Neutral Good. I follow rules and laws, but mostly I care about myself and others... I think. Heck, maybe I am just True Neutral. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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ej Unregistered user |
I don't think there really is such a thing as goodnes, or evil, I think everyone is neutral, people only help themself or other people if they are important to them. also people do "evil things" killing, stealing, to benefit from it. and maybe sometimes people kill because they are crazy, but not for the evilnes of it. Btw I would like to know whats the differnce between balance and order? isn't it the same? |
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Maelstrom Registered user The Knight of the Black Rose Last page view: 3328 days, 1 hour, 11 minutes and 32 seconds ago. |
ej, stealing is Chaotic, not evil :P And the fifference between balance and ordred is that order has strict laws. No exceptions. Balance has both freedom and laws. A pessimist sees a dark tunnel. An optimist sees a light at the end of that tunnel. A realist sees a train. And the train driver sees three idiots on the tracks. |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5352 days, 11 hours, 36 minutes and 43 seconds ago. |
Lawful good: Using law and order for the good of mankind. Laws are formulated to be of maximum benefit to and protection for those who need it most. Example : Socialist Leftish party in Norway. (Hah) Lawful neutral: Good or evil is not important, the thing that matters is following the letter of the law. Example: Most lawyers, traffic wardens, bureaucrats. Lawful evil: Using the laws to oppress and enslave the weak. Example: Nazi germany. Stalinist soviet. Most of medieval Europe Neutral good : Laws or not is not important, what is important is the doing of good deeds. Example: Mother Theresa True neutral : Freedom of choice, there must be a balance of everything for society to be in harmony. Example: Neutral evil : How society is organized is not important, as long as one is free to work evil to ones own advantage. Chaotic good: The abolition of laws, and institution of personal freedom is the only way that people can be free to do right and good deeds. Example: Well-meaning anarchists, 70's idealists, et al. Chaotic neutral: Do whatever you will, whenever you will. Take away the law and there is no crime. Example: Beavis and butthead Chaotic evil: Chaos, mayhem, death, destruction, are ways to further ones own ambition. Example: Most fantasy "evil monsters", like Orcs. Terrorists (A terrorist is a word used by the other side, so I guess it will always be associated with Chaos and evilness) Semi-remembered from AD&D manual, my own examples. Maelstrom, when you say "vicous hangover"... Do you mean a. Vicious - Terrible, wicked, nasty? or b. Viscous - Your brain feels like its liquidified, watery? both of them could describe some of my worse ones... [Edited 1 time, last edit on 8/31/2006 at 15:16 (GMT -5) by Molach] |
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? Unregistered user |
Maelstrom said: "stealing is Chaotic, not evil" I think it depends on situation; it is totally different to steal to get rich when you already have enough money or to steal to get food while you are starving. |
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Maelstrom Registered user The Knight of the Black Rose Last page view: 3328 days, 1 hour, 11 minutes and 32 seconds ago. |
The act of stealing is chaotic, the good/evil depends on the situation in which you are (who do you steal from, and why). The act of stealing itself is chaotic, but it's not good or evil. It can be used for good and by the good people, but it's always against the law. A pessimist sees a dark tunnel. An optimist sees a light at the end of that tunnel. A realist sees a train. And the train driver sees three idiots on the tracks. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 10/10/2006 at 09:54 (GMT -5) by Maelstrom] |
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Kirbot Registered user BattleHax0r of Devastation Last page view: 6095 days, 13 hours, 54 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
Robbin Hood would be an example of chaotic good, then, while Garrett would be considered chaotic neutral, probably. Molach: "I like to have 200+ hp and over 5 good healin potions when I do [the fire] temple. AND some way of killing the Wyrm" Morio: "Some way of killing the worm is recommended, yes :D" |
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Cat Lord Lord Registered user Not really Last page view: 5655 days, 22 hours, 42 minutes and 54 seconds ago. |
Ok, it was sortof already said. Kirbot and Molach said. Lawful, neutral, and chaotic deal with laws. Good, neutral, and evil deal with morals. Lawful good: Laws used to be good. Lawful neutral: Laws are important, greater good isn't. Lawful evil: Using laws for evil Neutral good: Good for sake of good True neutral:Balance, no real "beef" with anyone. Neutral evil:You don't care about laws, you care about you and aren't afraid to be bad. Chaotic Good: You go against corrupt laws to be good (biggest ex. being Robin Hood, going against laws to be good. Chaotic neutral:You don't care much about laws. Whatever helps you, you do. Chaotic evil: You are baddest of bad, worst of worse. You go against laws and love torture, death, choas, and HATE cute little puppies (had to include last part :-) ) That's pretty much it. I had to use a bit of Moloch's (sorry)things, just paraphrasing it. Homework is not meant for home! It's a sick verbal coincidence! -My brother |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 42 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
Well, to emphasise somewhat, chaotic good for instance would be someone who actively disrespects laws but is still a good person. Robin Hood, though an outlaw, could be considered Neutral good since his chaotic acts were only in respect of good intentions. If there were better laws he may well have obeyed them. He's also for instance not the sort of person that would cheat in an archery battle - something a chaotic person would happily do. Chaotic (even good) can be considered someone who actively disrespects and breaks laws, sometimes just for the joy of destroying whatever order there is. On the flip side lawful good is someone who sees the law and good as the same truth. In particular this could apply to religious zealots, who consider all of gods laws to be good and holy (and those who break it to be due harsh punishment). Lawful neutral is someone who will always obey the law, whether they are good or bad - this could easily apply to a lot of society who normally act good, but under a different regime of laws would not disobey them for moral reasons. Of course this is looking at extremes, and there can be a lot of difference over just one classification... Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Kirbot Registered user BattleHax0r of Devastation Last page view: 6095 days, 13 hours, 54 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
So what you're saying is, a Lawful Good person could be forced into a Neutral Good position, if the laws in his/her country were changed to be evil? Molach: "I like to have 200+ hp and over 5 good healin potions when I do [the fire] temple. AND some way of killing the Wyrm" Morio: "Some way of killing the worm is recommended, yes :D" |
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