Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / Spoilers / Artifact generation...
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psy_wombats Registered user Untitled Last page view: 5547 days, 3 hours, 44 minutes and 1 second ago. |
Just interested in what the average amount of artifact generation is, in terms of greater vaults and artifact guardians. I've had a lot of variation with this... My first victory got 3 greater vaults and 1 artifact guardians, second and third got one greater vault and one guardian, and the last two have gotten no vaults or artifacts AT ALL. Is there anything that influences this? Specifically, the guardians... They seem exceedingly rare. I know greater vaults are determined at the start at the game, but is there any modifier or anything that comes into play for this sort of thing? WHEN WOMBATS STRIKE! Enjoy your last days... |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
I think greater vaults are random - not determined at start of game. To test, make a new game, send it to work, and play that game at work and another (with the same starting save) at home. You'll probably get different results; I've gotten different results. I believe greater vault generation is based on how many artifacts have already been generated in your game to that point. ie. if you get multi pre crowns, and a few guardians, dig up every grave, pickpocket every monster, etc. you'll already have many artifacts, and fewer vaults will be generated. The last game I played, I got 17 random artifacts plus every guaranteed artifact except potion of literacy and the raw steel artifacts (including the black torc and the obsidian mace). That game gave me 1 from pickpocketing, 3 from graves, 1 guardian, 2 pre-crowns, 1 from dragons, and 1 greater vault. [human druid] Previous game gave me 18 randoms plus all guaranteed except the black torc (including potion of literacy, 2 raw steel artifacts, and obsidian mace). That game gave me 1 from pickpocketing, 2 from graves, 0 gaurdians, 3 pre-crowns, and 2 greater vaults. [dwarf barbarian] Neither game gave rolf's shield which is determined at game creation. Crowning gifts are also determined at game creation (but not pre or post crownings which are random). |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 47 minutes and 38 seconds ago. |
Greater and minor vaults are decided upon character creation. Which type of vault and how many artifacts are in it is random. This has been tested. I've not heard of more than 3 greater vaults in a game, and obviously 0 is the minimum. The average seems to be around 1.5. Normally it's 2 artifacts in a vault, but sometimes it'll be 1 or 3. Don't know if anything influences this. As for surges of power, they are extremely rare. You are very lucky to have one in a game, and stupendously lucky to get two. I have heard of one guy that got 2 on the same level, which is pretty freaky. I don't know if anything affects the chance of surges of power, such as the luck stat or the long lost brother birth effect. Other methods of random artifact generation: - Gravedigging - Water dragon cave (about a 1 in 5 chance in my experience) - DarkForge (often some artifacts weapons and armour in here) - Pickpocketing (several low weight artifacts are possible through extensive pickpocketing, including Preserver and BoW) - Casino (usually around 2 artifacts) All of these seem to be purely dependant on luck. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
Interesting, and good to know. Memory is never as reliable as testing... ;) A method your list skipped is from dragons. Any dragon, greater d, ancient d, or wyrm (not baby or drake) has a very small chance to drop an art. I got one my last game, and I'll see this happen maybe 1 in 12 games. |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4279 days, 6 hours, 29 minutes and 48 seconds ago. |
Don't forget that artifacts are sometimes simply generated randomly, out of the blue, as a plain old regular monster drop. Got bracers of war from a plain fire dragon this way once. Oops - just now read what AshenPlanet says. Is this actually restricted to dragons? That's the only monster outside of a vault that I am absolutely sure dropped an artifact. The other random artifact drops might all have been from greater or minor vault monsters (Minor vaults are one possibility you missed, Darren). You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 47 minutes and 38 seconds ago. |
I've seen lots of different monster types drop artifacts. The fact is dragons are guaranteed to drop lots of loot, so the chance of them dropping an artifact is higher than for other items (and of course more memorable). Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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jsr Registered user Last page view: 4732 days, 10 hours, 53 minutes and 1 second ago. |
There were three times, when I've seen weak monsters dropping nonguaranteed artifacts: a goblin, who dropped Emerald Dagger, an orc scorcher, who dropped scorched spear (hehe), and a fire daemon, who dropped Thunderstroke. But first two monsters were generated inside lesser vaults, so maybe this is the reason for such a lovely loot. I had very few characters who managed to get really far in the game (near MT or later), and they weren't lucky to find lots of random artifacts, but my last successful guy surprised me a little. He managed to get 5 artifacts from a [pathetic] greater giant vault on D:39 - Whirlwind, Wyrmlance, Executor, Protector, scorched spear. I suppose, this is somehow connected with my poor luck in finding any random artifacts earlier (except 1 precrown), although he did Water Dragon Cave, Darkforge, Rift, dug all the "great treasures" graves and pickpocketed *a lot*. Hmmm, like game feels some remorse for such avarice and tries to make me happier. Did anyone ever get similar feeling? Oh my, I'm so lonely and need some company |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
The game is fickle... ;) Outside of a vault, guardian, or dragon, I've never seen a normal monster drop an artifact, but I could be wrong. Arts in vaults will often be picked up by monsters there, and then dropped when they die. Before the spider/jackal fix I'd regularly kill 10-20 thousand gremlins every game to get mastery and had never seen an artifact there. I've also killed thousands of trees and had never seen an artifact drop there. It's not just "great treasure" graves that can drop artifacts, btw, they just drop more items. I usually dig up every grave. Also, as far as I know, gravedigging is the only way I've seen to destroy an artifact. Years ago, in my save-scumming days, when I first got the message "the contents of this grave are crushed by your weight", I saved and quit the game, and saw that the scorched spear had been generated (and destroyed). |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 47 minutes and 38 seconds ago. |
Crushed by your weight? What? Never seen that message before... Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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psy_wombats Registered user Untitled Last page view: 5547 days, 3 hours, 44 minutes and 2 seconds ago. |
Yeah, I've done that before. Except I Ctrl+D'd a huge rock into a grave. It didn't destroy an artifact though... That sucks. Anyone know how gravedigging generates items? Could just be randomly be generating items of any DL with no additional chance at an artifact... And I think artifact generation inside the vault may be influenced by the amount generated so far. For that character with 3 vaults, he found 3 in the first, 2 in the second, and 1 in the last vault. (Go figure it was giants, dragons, undead, reverse the difficultly order.) I've also run into the occasional artifact in the Black Market, which is interesting enough. Never by pickpocketing though. Does the thief class power have anything to do with it? Or does that just increase maximum weight? Also never in the water dragon cave, and only twice in the casino. As for random monsters dropping artifacts... Happened twice. Once was a goblin dropping Whirlwind on D:47 (useless) and the other a moloch dropping Nature's Companion in the library for a L:17 character who hadn't cleared ToEF yet. Handy. WHEN WOMBATS STRIKE! Enjoy your last days... |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
Crushed by your weight can happen with little or a lot of weight. How much you're actually carrying doesn't seem to matter. Since I regularly dig up every single grave in the game, I'll see it on average once a game. It happens with lucky and fate smiles intrinsics as well, so those intrinsics probably don't help avoid it, although I'm always wearing a blessed amulet of balance while digging, and so no ankh equipped. The game definitely rolls for a chance of artifact generation instead of a regular item in graves since you only get 100-200 items in a game from graves, and I've gotten 3 arts from graves last game, and 2 from graves in the game before. Those were fortunate games, but on average, I'll get 1-2 arts from graves which is around 1 art per 100 items! 1/100 items is a high percentage of artifacts, akin to darkforge or mommy cave. In the gammas before the number of deaths increased monster difficulty, I'd get tens of thousands of items from gremlins both in the gremlin cave and deep in the caverns. Back then, I'd carry fluff balls with me, and if I found a new weapon I wanted to use, I'd fill the level with gremlins and get grand mastery in that new weapon right then and there. Increasing difficulty with numbers of kills stopped all that, but I've still gotten 1000+ items from the tree level with no artifacts in the current version. Comparing 0/10000 to 0/1000 to 1/100 makes graves a worthwhile endeaver. As for your experiences, D47 is most often a vault level, minor or major, maybe the gobbo wandered away from a vault there? I've seen goblin guardians on the higher levels of the caverns and the puppy/village/unremarkable dungeons, but if it was a d47 guardian you'd expect a bigger guardian. The moloch in the library is significant, though, since there's obviously no vault in the library. I've gotten arts in the library before, but always from one of the many dragons there. The moloch may mean that demons have the same treasure table as dragons, a distinct possibility. I don't know how well thief pickpocketing inceases chances since I haven't played a thief after Mr. Biskup added the class powers, but I pickpocket most of the monsters before I kill them, even when playing a caster. I get an artifact that way maybe a little better than 1 every 2 games (got 1 in each of the last 2 games I played). |
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Elraz Registered user Last page view: 5309 days, 22 hours, 38 minutes and 51 seconds ago. |
I`ve once found both Skullcrusher and Ironfist in pc6 (orcs), not by a surge of power. BTW, I recall tat not a long ago, my gnomish bard found 4 artifacts on a greater vault. I think I even posted his story an flg here. |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
PC6 is a minor vault. 2 is great for a minor vault and 4 is great for a major vault. I think the chances are 1-4 for major vaults and 0-2 for minor vaults (although heavily weighted towards 0 in minor vaults). |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 47 minutes and 38 seconds ago. |
AshenPlanet, do you only dig up great treasure graves or do you dig up all graves in a game? I'm just curious as to whether or not it's ever worth digging up non-treasure graves. Thief pickpocketing power doesn't improve what type of items you pick, but it does improve your chances of getting an item immensely (instead of the nothing of value message). I remember hearing that it roughly triples the item generation rate. Means a greater chance of getting artifacts when pickpocketing, but more importantly means lots more of the usual pickpocketing stuff like stat potions. I remember my last bard victory having Nature's Companion dropped by a random master mimic in the CoC. No vault, nothing special about the level, just a regular monster dropping an artifact. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
I dig every grave. It's not just "great treasure" graves that can drop arts, they're just more likely too. |
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psy_wombats Registered user Untitled Last page view: 5547 days, 3 hours, 44 minutes and 2 seconds ago. |
Wait, I thought all graves had the same item generation? I was under the impression Great Treasure graves just yielded a higher amount of items, thus the higher chance of generation. WHEN WOMBATS STRIKE! Enjoy your last days... |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 47 minutes and 38 seconds ago. |
That's what I figured too, but I was just wondering if it's actually worth the time and the alignment screwing to dig up every single grave. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
Yes, When I said they're more likely to, I meant because they drop more items. Most graves drop just an item or 2, but "great treasures" can drop many. I think the chance for an artifact is the same in all of them, but "great treasures" gives more rolls on the treasure table. |
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maddog Unregistered user |
Surge just happens if one of the "floor" items randomly generated is an artifact. That'll then run the subroutine and fetch a name from the list and then put that on a regular mob with player level + X levels. Or something like that. I have never ever seen an art generated on the floor in a minor vault. I have seen it drop from mobs in a minor vault early in the game, but that is simply because 1) No artifacts has been generated yet so they occupy a relatively large segment of the loot table. 2) All random artifacts has DANGERLEVEL = 1, so the LOWER the danger level of the level you are on the HIGHER the odds of artifact generation. Items you pickpocket is limited to 10s. Logically this also limits the odds of snatching an artifact, since most are weapons and armor. Ironically my latest win pickpocketed "Soaker", which has to be a world record in pickpocking. Great Treasures (or graves in general) definately seems to "beat" the ordinary item generation as do dragon hoards. These treasures are generated with a special segment of code so it is very possible (and likely) that they also favour generation of artifacts. I am unsure about Darkforge though. |
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Chambza Registered user Last page view: 5924 days, 3 hours, 15 minutes and 32 seconds ago. |
maddog: "That'll then run the subroutine and fetch a name from the list and then put that on a regular mob with player level + X levels. Or something like that." Saying "regular", do you mean a critter that already was on the level? Aren't the guardians fairly often at least a bit out of depth, and sometimes a whole lot? |
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maddog Unregistered user |
I am not the decompiling sort (I'll leave that to Mr. Panteleev), but I have never really experienced any guardian out-of-depth. They DO have a significantly higher level than ordinary mobs generated. To clarify the guardian is specially generated on top of the artifact in question, but I do not think it is (significantly) out of depth. That doesn't mean it cannot be a tough cookie. The most amusing guardian yours truely has experienced was a fire vortex on the lowest level of the UD. Having enhanced intrinsic fire res the thing just blew up giving me a 4 hp hit and left a freebie artifact. That surges are an attribute of the item and not the level is more than evident from the fact that you can have two per level. A vault on the other hand is a level feature and you will never have more than one pr level. I believe tension rooms is a level feature too. I cannot recall ever having two on a level. |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
I've seen 2 tension rooms on a level. When diving to ID 66 and back, you'll usually see a level with 2 tension rooms. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 47 minutes and 38 seconds ago. |
Are you sure it was two tension rooms? A very common occurence in the ID is to have a tension room (which usually come in different flavours, like mixed giants, or completely random assortment) and a threat room (all one single monster type). Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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AshenPlanet Registered user Last page view: 3388 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes and 20 seconds ago. |
It could have been as you described. I seem to remember my last one in or around ID 55-60, with a room full of ghost lords and a room full of ancient black dragons on the same level. I also remember a previous game where I had a room full of greater molochs and a room full of balors on the same level. That was memorable for obvious reasons... ;) I went from 46th to 50th level in that 1 dungeon level. I pretty much always see at least one during the dive to 66 and back, so if my current character makes it that far, I'll note the circumstances of the level (level messages, listen results, etc.) My current is a 10th level necro with a quickling lord ghul in tow, so it's very likely she'll make it all the way. ;) |
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maddog Unregistered user |
Tension rooms and "you feel threatened" are two complete different things. Tension rooms are exclusive to ordinary levels and do not occur in cavernous ones (in 1.0.0 there was a bug that allowed one to be generated on Barny's level tho'). It is always a room filled with mobs except one tile and there are distinctive types of tension rooms. Threat hordes are simply an X x Y tight group of one out-of-depth monster type. Both can occur on the same level. In fact you can have a tension room, a threat horde and a vault on the same level. |
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Elraz Registered user Last page view: 5309 days, 22 hours, 38 minutes and 51 seconds ago. |
maddog wrote: "I have never really experienced any guardian out-of-depth." I sure did. I once got surge of power while entering smc with level 1 - the guardian was dark elf wizard, that don`t have danger level 1. I also met breseker lord on UD 2, guarding the black book. My guess is that most of the guardians are out of depth monsters, but they not always significantly stornger then the same type when wncountered on its true danger level. |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 5 hours, 47 minutes and 38 seconds ago. |
In one Brimstone Man attempt I had a surge of power on the first level of the tower. The thing of dreams to be honest, but then it turned out the guardian was a dark elven priestess. I could likely have beaten her on her own, but all of the spiders she summoned were extremely experienced and took around 8 fire bolts to kill. Was utterly impossible. I figure the priestess must have been generated at a very high level linked to the danger level of the tower, and her summons likewise. Oh, and the artifact? Bracers of war. RNG, you are a cruel tease... Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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maddog Unregistered user |
Thanks for the info Elraz. Surges are pretty darn rare and I have only had problems with a surge guardian once (yellow j in ToEF doing a Brimstone attempt - was regenerating and multiplying too fast), but I haven't experienced that many surges in a statistical sense. If you encounter a dark elven wizard as level 1 in SMC it is with 99% accuracy not generated with the ordinary routine for sure. |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4279 days, 6 hours, 29 minutes and 48 seconds ago. |
Does a lightning vortex on UD:2 count as a surge guardian problem? If so, then yes, yes I've had surge guardian problems. Deadly ones. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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maddog Unregistered user |
Of all vortices I find the lightning ones the most annoying. Why? Because there is NO RING and NO CORPSE. There is a resistance ring for all the others and they drop with a reasonably high frequency. Both Acid and Fire has very low depth corpses dropping resistance (ants and beetles). However note that the danger level of mobs is not only determined by the DL of the level, but also your own level. Still - a vortex on UD:2 is likely OOD. |
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