Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / Spoilers / The best laid plans...
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vogonpoet Registered user Last page view: 5167 days, 13 hours and 46 minutes ago. |
Looks pretty damned good - I can't believe how efficient you are... Do you eat the claw bugs or just kill them for XP? Oh, and when you are stair climbing the ID, do you just glance at room with the stairs, or will you venture forth if you have a tension room? [Edited 1 time, last edit on 3/27/2008 at 11:16 (GMT -5) by vogonpoet] |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
I used to eat the corpses in the BUGWIL, but I don't do that any more. Fixing the willpower stat just takes too long. Also, the increased speed kind of breaks the game a bit. The ID stair hopping is only for the blink dog corpse these days. I only climb to levels 3-4 and go up, down, up, down, again and again and again. It's not fun, but it's the only guaranteed way I know to get TP control. Well, dear Quizard has made it to the Mana Temple. Can she defeat the Archmage? I do think so, she has gotten very lucky with items. If she lives through this, I should have the game beat today. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
Death by Archmage, again. Had him almost dead, AGAIN. This time he did panic and flee. I tried to stop him, but unfortunately he got back into the center room. I had to go in after him. I was happily wading through the swarms of chaos goons, acid balling them as I went, when he just killed me. HP's went from about 240 to -97, turns out he hit me with a few death rays in a single turn. I was wearing the AMW, so I suppose he was just blind raging and got many hits in. I will try again. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4279 days, 6 hours, 57 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
"I will try again"? Are you some kind of masochist? :) Seriously though, good luck with the next time. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
Indeed! I did just try again, and failed again. This time wasn't my fault though, the game crashed after I killed Shaarad. It wasn't even ADOM's fault really. I took a notion to record a whole game from start to finish, using demo workshop. I had tried this before, and kept getting crashes around the Water Temple. This time (I have more ram now), the game just kept on going. All the way up to the Mana Temple, then *CRASH*. It's a shame too, I had played about 5 hours straight, I think, and had a very good shot at winning. Of course my last few PC's have all died at the hands of the Archmage, so I'm not too sure about that : ) I think I may post the recording anyway. I was thinking about posting the whole thing in one big chunk, but it's ~11 Meg. Also, if I post it as an exe file, there won't be any way to fast forward, rewind, or pause. The thought of someone sitting and watching a 5 hour play session straight through is pretty unlikely. If I post the recording as a screen.rec file, then pause, rewind, fast forward, and scene selection would be available. The downside is, that the viewer would have to download demo workshop to view it. It's only like 200 K though, so it's a much better way, I think. I will probably post it as one large chunk in exe form, and several ~1 Meg chunks in screen.rec form. That way, if anyone is just interested in say, the ToEF part, they can just DL that. It will take a while to process it all though. When (if) I'm done, I'll post the links on this thread. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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vogonpoet Registered user Last page view: 5167 days, 13 hours and 46 minutes ago. |
Awesome idea. A whole game demo. Gotta admire the ambition, but dude, I know you don't like missing out on the "without even stopping to save herself" message, but considering how insanely hard a challenge you have set yourself, I don't think anyone here would mind if you just recorded your game in two bite size 12000 turn sessions and save it in the middle. Actually, couldn't you stop and start the recording software, say every 6000 turns, without quitting ADOM? Now I got confused. |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
I thought about doing it in chunks, but when I save a file, I put it to the side for a while. When I put it aside for a while... I hardly ever pick it back up again. I almost always delete the character and start over. For some reason I can't explain, as long as the game is 'open', I will stay interested in it, even over days at a time. Yes, I could stop and start the recorder, but that would kind of defeat part of what I want to do. I wanted to have a video with not even the smallest alteration. I wanted it to be completely 'what you see is what you get' : ). If there is a part in the game where I have to stop and think for a while, to keep the PC alive, I want the video to show that. When I make mistakes, I want that to show too. There are also some, who have expressed doubts about save-scumming in ADOM games. I was kind of hoping that anyone who was curious, could look at this video. Even if they watch only one clip, they would know that save-scumming isn't needed. And ADOM is a zillion times more heart-pounding without it : ) . . . I hope all these links work. . I have recorded nearly an entire ADOM game using Demo Workshop. The game crashed after I killed Sharad. I don't think I will be attempting this again, because I dread to lose more promising characters. So I have chopped up this screen.rec file into size managable parts, ~1 MB each. Each part is about 1 MB big, but I tried not to interupt any quest in the middle, so some chunks are a bit longer than others. Because they are in .rec format, you need to have Demo Workshop to veiw them. It's only about 200 K, and it will let you fast forward. All videos run about 30 minutes per MB. This game was a try at beating the game in fewest game-turns, so it plays pretty fast. I played with the following restrictions: No saving (not just save-scumming, but no saving the game at all). No praying. No smithing. No pick pockets skill. No gremlin cave visit. No dragon gold doubling. No piety abuse. No casino gold. Only using the ID long enough to get TP control. I did role a number of gray elven wizards, in order to start out with a spellbook of teleportation. Also, the entire game was played in one ~6 hour long session. There was no pausing, and re-starting of the recorder, so there are a few (boring) pauses in the game while I was thinking. I left the pauses in, because I wanted no manipulation of the vidoe. I was going to put in menus, but am far too lazy for that. I hope that these will be convenient enough so that people will actually watch one or two. There should be some tactics in there, that new players could pick up. I know there are plenty of mistakes in there, but keep in mind it was a ~6 hour straight play session with no breaks. Made worse by the fact that all of my recent PC's, have been horribly crushed by the Archmage. If anyone watches these, and can think of ANY way to shave off more moves (and still have a *reasonable* chance of survival) please let me know! In this game, I gave up the 'treasure hunter' talent line, in favor of the bookcasting line. I forget what the birthmonth was. ----------------------------------------- I had a bit of confusion about how to start out. I finaly decided on the SMC, because I planned on bookcasting, I needed the blanket. I proceeded to clear the entire BUGWIL, and get TP control from the ID. Bw_clear.rec http://hyperfileshare.com/d/6ac1bde1 ----------------------------------------- With TP control, I wanted to try DF for the great armor and weapons. Then went toward Dwarftown. Df_raid.rec http://hyperfileshare.com/d/1ed0265b ------------------------------------ Thrundaar opens the Griff quest, and the reward is many PoEH. I want to get those as fast as possible, I will need them for the other quests I will be doing early. Griff_y.rec http://hyperfileshare.com/d/f9d68722 --------------------------------------- With darkness, the Water Temple is a breeze. Without it, I nearly died. I guess I really just underestimated the Snake, because of how easily he normally dies. Water_t.rec http://hyperfileshare.com/d/859dd71d --------------------------------------- Well, actually this file is more than just the RotHK. I didn't want to split the ToEF video into two parts, so I crammed the druid quest, and DF clearing in with this. Rothk.rec http://hyperfileshare.com/d/10f72864 --------------------------------------- It weighs in at 1.4 MB, so should play for about 45 minutes. I only watched it through on fast forward though, so I don't know for sure. The PC is very low exp. level when going in, with TO at maybe 16 I think. I used demons and grues for meat shields. A lot of my PC's die here, this one was just lucky. Toef.rec http://hyperfileshare.com/d/88007387 -------------------------------------- Well, this job isn't the most fun to do. I try to use teleport, to limit the number of game turns spent, looking for the down staircases. When it works, it looks easy, when it doesn't it's a headache. Coc_dive.rec http://hyperfileshare.com/d/0ab9b447 -------------------------------------- There is a handy trick in this one, that lot of players can pick up. When collecting items in the gift shop, use the in-game configuration command ':=' to set the Auto_Pickup feature. You will pick up all of the items you specify, without having to press the ',' key each step. This halves your game turns spent in the gift shop, and therefore halves the corruption you recieve. I think it equals ~500 turns if memory serves, and that's at level ~31 of the CoC, so that's a lot of corruption. Casino.rec http://hyperfileshare.com/d/8c501a41 ----------------------------------- Boy, I almost died here. I honestly didn't expect to get this far with this PC. It was the first PC I tried recording in months. I blew my kitty karma in the ID, by a stupid out of sight cat. I had fun killing every cat I came across for the rest of the game, but paid for it here. I blinded him just fine, but I forgot to web the room up first. Therefore he cheerfully blundered into me in a blind stupor, and nearly destroyed me. I drank a PoEH and he stumbled the other way, but it could have been the end. Lightning ball finished him off. Cat_lord.rec http://hyperfileshare.com/d/55db5ec8 ------------------------------------ The Earth Temple is never easy, but with lightning ball, it wasn't too bad. HP's got pretty low at one point, but the Stone Beast was relatively easy. Earth_t.rec http://hyperfileshare.com/d/e8502f84 ---------------------------------- I made my way to the Mana Temple, and was about to take on the Archmage. I remembered though, that I hadn't killed Sharad yet. I had magic missile, and invisibility, so I went back. While blasting him, I think I hit the wrong key and accidentally turned him invisible. I must have vanished him, because I've never known of him to turn himself invisible before. At first I didn't know what happened, I thought maybe he teleported or something. So I so without thinking, I recklessly moved into him! Luckily for me, I was dual wielding shields at the time. If I had been using a weapon, he would have known my position, and killed me. I finally killed him with magic missiles. I got a few exp. levels up, and then I picked up some well deserved treasure. That's when the game crashed. I'm sure it's not the fault of ADOM though. The screen.rec file was about 11 MB big, and I don't think it was made to handle that. Sharad.rec http://hyperfileshare.com/d/45e3d922 --------------------------------- Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! [Edited 1 time, last edit on 3/28/2008 at 16:14 (GMT -5) by gut] |
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Doalag Registered user Last page view: 6061 days, 8 hours, 42 minutes and 3 seconds ago. |
I feel sooo laaazyyy and don't want search, how are played those .rec files? |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
I used demo workshop v1.1o to record them, so you will need to download that program to view them. Here is the link: http://www.p1.com/P1DownloadPage.htm This is not a direct link to the file, but a link to the DL page. It's completely free, and is only 167 KB. There are probably other sites to get it from, just search google with the words 'demo workshop' and 'v1.1o'. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
My latest attempt for the limited turns challenge. I have just defeated the ACW, and it was VERY difficult. My TO was only 19, because I have not found any stable morgia patch in this game. I did get lucky with wight corpses though, and also started the game with a potion of toughness, so I can't complain. I entered the tower at exp. level 17, And only had 136 hit points. I had to use 5 blessed PoEH in my fight with the Wyrm. I had to use a potion of confusion, but it wore off before the job was done. The Wyrm fled to the back of the room. I had to go WAY in after him, but I had the invisibility spell, so it wasn't too bad. I finished the Wyrm off with bounced magic missiles. I came out three exp. levels higher.
Twizzard St:19 Le:28 Wi:32 Dx:27 To:26 Ch:11 Ap:13 Ma:21 Pe:20 N-
DV/PV: 81/28 H: 154(215) P: 230(230) Exp: 20/730669 D: 1 M: 10257
Bloated Strained Coward
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Weapon Skills
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Melee weapon Lvl Hit Dam DV Level Required marks
--------------------- --- --- --- -- ------------- --------------
Maces & flails 1 +1 +0 +0 basic 48
// My highest trained weapon.
Missile weapon Lvl Hit Dam Ra Level Required marks
--------------------- --- --- --- -- ------------- --------------
Bows 1 +2 +1 +0 basic 15
// Highest trained missile weapon.
Shields Lvl DV Level Required marks
--------------------- --- --- ------------- --------------
Shields 4 +8 skilled 67
// Pretty good shield marks for this point in the
// game. I got quite a few marks in the GY.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spells
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Burning Hands : 83, 4pp (Effectivity: +16)
Cure Light Wounds: 124, 2pp (Effectivity: +12)
Darkness : 269, 3pp (Effectivity: +1)
Destroy Undead : 1, 9pp (Effectivity: +0)
Disarm Trap : 274, 6pp (Effectivity: +0)
Fire Bolt : 455, 5pp (Effectivity: +19)
Frost Bolt : 777, 6pp (Effectivity: +14)
Invisibility : 244, 6pp (Effectivity: +3)
Knock : 498, 8pp (Effectivity: +3)
Light : 8, 3pp (Effectivity: +1)
Magic Missile : 82, 4pp (Effectivity: +16)
Scare Monster : 265, 8pp (Effectivity: +0)
Slow Monster : 310, 5pp (Effectivity: +2)
Teleportation : 224, 12pp (Effectivity: +13)
Web : 274, 8pp (Effectivity: +0)
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Skills
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alchemy ..............100 (superb) [+2d4]
// PoGA recipe is Ultra healing + youth. Maybe the
// casino will have a potion of youth.
Climbing ............. 62 (good) [+1d3]
Concentration ........100 (superb) [+2d4]
Dodge ................ 51 (good) [+1d3]
First aid ............ 58 (good) [+1d5]
Haggling ............. 58 (good) [+1d5]
Healing ..............100 (superb) [+1d3]
Herbalism ............100 (superb) [+2d4]
Listening ............ 93 (superb) [+1d5]
Literacy .............100 (superb) [+2d4]
Stealth ..............100 (superb) [+1d3]
Ventriloquism ........ 63 (good) [+1d3]
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Inventory
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total weight: 2801 stones Carrying capacity: 2100 stones
Head : blessed hat [+2, +3] [4s]
Neck : uncursed ankh [3s]
Body : uncursed ancient mummy wrapping [+1, +5] {Ap-8} [60s]
Girdle : uncursed metal girdle [+0, +1] [25s]
Cloak : blessed cloak of defense [+5, +0] [20s]
Right Hand : uncursed sword of Nonnak (+2, 4d3+2) [+2, +2] {Wi+5} [80s]
Left Hand : blessed medium crystal shield [+9, +4] [160s]
Right Ring : uncursed ring of mental stability [+0, +1] {Le+1} [1s]
Left Ring : blessed ring of the High Kings [+2, +3] [1s]
Bracers : uncursed bracers of toughness [+0, +0] {To+7} [10s]
// Formerly known as brass bracers. I took them to
// the BUGWIL, and dipped them into a blessed PoE.
// Shame I couldn't use them for the ToEF.
Gauntlets : uncursed elemental gauntlets (-1, +0) [+0, +3] [10s]
Boots : blessed seven league boots (+1, +1) [+2, +0] [30s]
// Found these early, and they have helped a lot.
Missile weapon: uncursed short bow (+1, -2) [20s]
Missiles : bundle of 8 blessed arrows (+0, 1d6) [16s]
Tool : uncursed Chaos Orb of Elemental Water {Wi+10} [100s]
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Stuff
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Total weight: 2261 stones Carrying capacity: 2100 stones
Armor ('[')
blessed robe of invisibility [+0, +1] [60s]
Shields ('[')
uncursed small mithril shield [+6, +1] [40s]
Gauntlets ('[')
uncursed gauntlets of peace (-15, -15) [+3, +3] [10s]
// Got stuck with these early on. I actually found them
// to be quite useful, because I was relying on magic.
Boots ('[')
mithril boots [-1, +2] [96s]
Necklaces (''')
uncursed black torc [+4, +2] (+10 spd) [3s]
// Had to do the druid quest for the frostbolt book.
One-handed weapons ('(')
uncursed pick axe (+0, 1d6+1) [75s]
uncursed eternium scimitar (+0, 2d8+8) [19s]
Two-handed weapons ('(')
uncursed eternium two-handed sword of corruption (+19, 6d5+18) [-1, +0]
// Found this in DF, haven't used it yet.
Missile weapons ('}')
heap of 2 uncursed light crossbows (+2, +0) [140s]
Missiles ('/')
bundle of 17 uncursed arrows (+0, 1d6) [34s]
uncursed arrow (+0, 1d6+1) [2s]
bundle of 6 uncursed arrows (+0, 1d6+3) [12s]
bundle of 2 blessed mithril arrows (+0, 1d6+3) [4s]
bundle of 5 uncursed mithril arrows (+0, 1d6+3) [10s]
uncursed boomerang (+3, 2d4+1) [20s]
Tools (']')
heap of 2 uncursed torches [20s]
uncursed box with flint and steel (42) [5s]
uncursed tinderbox (13) [3s]
uncursed waterproof blanket [10s]
// I used to have three fireproof blankets, but all
// three burned up in the tower, because I had to spend
// many turns chasing the ACW around. I only lost a few
// items, because the last burned up on the way out.
// It's rare to have found 1 fireproof blanket before
// the tower. This is the first time I have ever found 3.
uncursed box with flint and steel (18) [5s]
blessed round key [1s]
uncursed small key [1s]
uncursed tinderbox (2) [3s]
heap of 3 uncursed sis [30s]
// I've only generated five of these all game!
Chaos Orb of Elemental Fire [100s]
Rings ('=')
heap of 2 uncursed rings of damage [2s]
blessed ring of luck [1s]
heap of 3 uncursed rings of stun resistance [3s]
blessed ring of see invisible [1s]
wooden ring [1s]
Wands ('\')
uncursed wand of magic missiles (0 charges) [3s]
uncursed wand of door creation (2 charges) [3s]
uncursed wand of digging (2 charges) [3s]
blessed wand of ball lightning (7 charges) [4s]
uncursed wand of monster creation (1 charge) [3s]
uncursed wand of cold (0 charges) [4s]
uncursed wand of earthquakes (1 charge) [3s]
uncursed wand of digging (0 charges) [3s]
uncursed wand of fireballs (3 charges) [3s]
uncursed wand of digging (1 charge) [3s]
uncursed wand of wonder (0 charges) [3s]
blessed wand of monster creation (1 charge) [3s]
uncursed wand of cold (0 charges) [4s]
// Drained most of these in the tower.
Potions ('!')
uncursed potion of extra healing [2s]
uncursed potion of visibility [4s]
uncursed potion of potential strength [4s]
uncursed potion of healing [4s]
heap of 2 uncursed potions of booze [8s]
heap of 2 uncursed potions of cure poison [4s]
heap of 6 blessed potions of insight [12s]
uncursed potion of strength [4s]
heap of 4 blessed potions of extra healing [8s]
// Thrundarr was VERY generous this game,
// giving 9 PoEH !
heap of 2 uncursed potions of charisma [8s]
uncursed potion of potential beauty [4s]
uncursed potion of invisibility [4s]
uncursed potion of ultra healing [2s]
// Now I only need a potion of youth to
// compliment this : )
uncursed potion of boost charisma [2s]
uncursed potion of water [4s]
blessed potion of cure corruption [2s]
potion of water [4s]
potion of booze [4s]
light yellow potion [2s]
clotted potion [2s]
Scrolls ('?')
uncursed scroll of item detection [2s]
heap of 2 blessed scrolls of identify [4s]
uncursed scroll of vermin control [2s]
uncursed scroll of monster aggravation [2s]
heap of 4 blessed scrolls of chaos resistance [8s]
// I have a new theory about dealing with the dwarven
// mystic. It has panned out for me in my last four
// straight games, so I will share it here. I think
// that the flavor of N alignment doesn't matter,
// but instead, it's decided by the number of turns
// that you have held your present alignment. In my
// last games, I have not switched from N alignment
// from the start of the game, and held N+ for about
// 2000 turns before chatting with the mystic. It has
// worked four times straight.
blessed scroll of protection [2s]
heap of 2 uncursed scrolls of power [4s]
uncursed scroll of increase melee damage [2s]
blessed scroll of light [2s]
uncursed scroll of treasure creation [2s]
uncursed scroll of protection [2s]
uncursed scroll of light [2s]
uncursed scroll of magic mapping [2s]
uncursed scroll of gold detection [2s]
Books ('"')
uncursed spellbook of Burning Hands [100s]
uncursed spellbook of Fire Bolt [100s]
uncursed spellbook of Magic Missile [100s]
uncursed spellbook of Teleportation [100s]
Food ('%')
<snip a bunch of herbs>
Valuables ('$')
9027 gold pieces [90s]
Gems ('*')
uncursed crystal of knowledge [1s]
blessed crystal of light [1s]
uncursed aquamarine [1s]
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Killed Monsters
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following monsters were vanquished:
1 Ancient Chaos Wyrm
// Very hard fight.
1 master necromancer
// Easy fight this time. I had burning hands.
1 skeletal king
// Invisibility plus fire bolt, took him out
// with no danger.
1 Snake from Beyond
// Killed my previous PC. I didn't have poison
// resistance, and I didn't keep a close watch
// on my HP's. This time it never landed a hit.
Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 6 hours, 15 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
Looking pretty good for just 10k turns in. You're very underpowered for the dive though, especially with how few spells you have. What are you exactly? Elven wizard? (or, sorry, wizzard :P ) Considering some ID stair-hopping before you go for the final plunge? I actually have to wonder how good a trip to the Library would be, considering the rewards (not the weird tome of course - just the spellbooks and the xp). // I have a new theory about dealing with the dwarven // mystic. It has panned out for me in my last four // straight games, so I will share it here. I think // that the flavor of N alignment doesn't matter, // but instead, it's decided by the number of turns // that you have held your present alignment. In my // last games, I have not switched from N alignment // from the start of the game, and held N+ for about // 2000 turns before chatting with the mystic. It has // worked four times straight. Take a coin and toss it ten times in your right hand. Then toss it ten times in your left hand. Do you see any pattern in your results? You probably will, even though it's random :P I've tried for years to guess the mystic's patterns, and each time I seem to be doing something right he changes his behaviour entirely. I am now quite firm in the belief that it's random and any patterns I see are just tricks of the mind (and incidentally Derren Brown's book "Tricks of the Mind" goes into how human and animal brains will actually try and pick out patterns like these and some interesting scientific tests that have been performed in the past investigating the phenomena). Hmm, I wonder how an archer would do at this challenge... None of the versatility of a spellcaster of course, but they're so damned powerful... Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
That was quick! Character is dead to the Banshee, in what is one of the most unfair deaths I have ever had. I had generated only one beehive the entire game, and I stupidly shot a fire bolt right over the beeswax, melting it instantly. So there I stood on the Banshee level, with no beeswax. No problem, I have done this several times before. I use alchemy to mix a potion of deafness, and it of course turns out blessed. I can't seem to remember ever mixing one that wasn't. Well, I'll just curse it and be on my way. Except I have no unholy water. I have no way to curse it. Not even 'prayer induced' cursing is an option in this game. So I bite the bullet and drink it blessed. This means that I can't peacefully pass the Eternal Guardian, I can't get the RotMC (despite having perfect kitty karma), and I can't tell Blup about his momma. The loss of the RotMC is the only really tough thing. This is where the unfair part comes in. I could not become deaf! I mixed two potions right away, and niether one made me deaf. I think that maybe, some item I'm wearing is causing interference. I strip naked, drop all my inventory, and quaff another. No deafness. Very frustrated, I leave the CoC, looking for a beehive somewhere else. I checked the PC, I checked the UD, and I checked the DD. No beehive, so I go back to the CoC. On the Banshee level once more, I mix every potion of deafness that I can. It uses all of my water, booze, pepper petals, and some burb root. I drink 6 potions of deafness. Some at satiated, some at bloated, and another with no items equipped. No deafness. So I decide to just wing it. I turn invisible, search out the Banshee room, and teleport in there. My hope was to maybe take her out with a single 'burning hand', but alas, I'm dead. Does anyone know why the potions of deafness wouldn't work? It's really bothering me. > Considering some ID stair-hopping before you > go for the final plunge? Looking back, that might have helped. Maybe a cursed potion of deafness would have worked. All I needed was a potion of unholy water. > Derren Brown's book "Tricks of the Mind" > goes into how human and animal brains will > actually try and pick out patterns My mind does that a lot. Most times I get it wrong, but sometimes I get lucky : ) I might give that book a look. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 6 hours, 15 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
Man, now that is tough. I have gotten in and killed her before without giving her the chance to open her mouth, but it ain't too easy. Blessed undead slaying ammo with Farsight can let you snipe her from outside her visual range (or if you can lure her into a long corridor you can shoot outside of your own visual range at her, knowing she'll be in the targetting line). Was giving archers a short try to see how well they fair at this turn-limited style. Main problem with them was getting enough ammo early on to deal with swarms. I think after getting a good stockpile they'd be fairly decent, since slaying ammo takes down the biggest obstacles so easily. Tower would be an issue though - could be done with thrown rocks. Or a Raven-born archer who specialises in spear-throwing could wreak havoc with the RCT. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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FantomFang Registered user Last page view: 6009 days, 16 hours, 45 minutes and 31 seconds ago. |
"So I bite the bullet and drink it blessed. This means that I can't peacefully pass the Eternal Guardian, I can't get the RotMC (despite having perfect kitty karma), and I can't tell Blup about his momma." Why wouldn't you be able to do these things? Going for 2nd win |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
The game won't let you communicate if you are deaf. You have to talk to the EG, CL, and Blup to make use of them. Blessed potions of deafness cause you to be deaf for a loooooong time. Maybe permenantly, I don't know. Archers wouldn't be able to teleport. That could be a major handicap. Killing the Banshee without deafness is just really hard. I don't think I have ever done it. How could one lure her down a corridor? Wouldn't she see you as soon as you open the door? I was thinking that if I had been a drakeling, I could have increased my speed with offensive alchemy. As things were though, I didn't have any way of increasing speed. I will try again. I'm starting to think that I shall, single handedly, genocide the entire Gray Elven population of Ancardia. They shall call me 'gut the terror'. Well, at the very least I will reduce their wizard numbers to a historic low. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 6 hours, 15 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
Find out the banshee's position with a wand of monster detection and zap a wand of digging from outside the room (preferably a good distance away to create a long line towards her). Whilst she's still out of sight keep firing down the corridor till you get some xp and she's added to your kill list. One hit is all it should take with blessed undead slaying ammo. Any particular reason you're using grey elves so much? Other than them being awesome wizards of course. Have you played around with other races? Gnomes might be good substitutes with their fast levelling. Though I imagine digging for gems to raise their learning is a frightful waste of turns. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
I have tried every race MANY times. I have been playing for turns for a long time now. I started trying back about when ADOM 1.0.0 was first out. I even had some success with non-spellcasters, but that was back when I thought that anything around 40000 was really good. With what I have learned from these threads (and RGRA), I have been able to steadily improve. Now that I'm trying for 24000, non-spellcasters just can't do it. They can't exploit teleporting the same way spellcasters can. Also, there are so many tactics available to spellcasters, that allow them to survive dangerous situations early. Darkness and invisibility alone are life-saving. Since I have to use a spellcaster, I am faced with the reality of having to specialize. One can't be a 'jack of all trades' in this challenge, you wouldn't be able to deal enough damage that way. There just isn't time to develope more than one mode of offense. You have to chose... magic, missiles, or melee. I have had success with eternium two-handed sword based offense, but it's too dangerous to be dependable these days. So I'm stuck with magic as a specialization. My theory is, to try to make the best spellcaster that I can. Grey elves have the highest learning stat available, mana and perception are good too. I think that their PP regeneration is highest too. High LE allows them to make use of ball spellbooks if they find them early. I haven't had much success in reading those, if my learning is under 22. There isn't time to raise LE much in-game, really only Garth. The heartier races like troll, dwarf, drakeling, and orc, all have relatively low mana and learning. That can really hinder a spellcaster. They wouldn't be able to learn ball spells at all. Also, I couldn't rely on teleporting very much, without abusing the Mana stat horribly. For the other races gnomes, and hurthlings, have lower learning stats. That means if I want to have a chance for ball spells, I have to give all of my gold to Garth, instead of piety. High elves come close, but are still edged out by gray elves. Also, the others have a lower PP regeneration rates. Humans are far too average, to be seriously considered. I'm definitely open minded about trying other races. Maybe with heavy use of book-casting, gnomes and hurthlings might do better. I might give gnomes a try after this current PC. On the bright side, since the turns are so few, the games go by pretty quickly. If one PC dies (even after the ToEF), it's just a few hours gone, so it doesn't hurt too much to experiment a little. That's a cool way of dealing with the Banshee. If I'm in that situation again, I'll keep that in mind. I might have been able to pull that off in the last game. At any rate, it would have given a better shot than what I came up with : ) Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 6 hours, 15 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
>Grey elves have the highest learning >stat available, mana and perception are good too. >I think that their PP regeneration is highest too. Their PP regen is certainly way better, but this is mostly dominated by Concentration anyway, and after a few potions of raw mana the difference vanishes. The guidebook states that there's only a 1 point difference in Le between gnomes and grey elves, but I must admit its always seemed to me like grey elves have much more, and this can make a huge difference at the start of the game. Of course this might be balanced slightly by investing some turns in hunting down the Oracle to pick her brains, or mining for crystals of knowledge (I'm fairly sure the mining skill greatly reduces the number of turns mining takes up). Whilst it might seem a waste of turns it could maybe be done efficiently, and the benfits of faster levelling might come in handy. Hmm, just did a little testing of creating gnomish and grey elven wizards... Seems grey elves have a much bigger variance in their Le - results ranged from 11 to 24. Gnomes on the other hand ranged from 14 to 22. Overall about the same, but the best grey elves are much better. However the experience differences are drastic. A gnome requires around 8.8 million xp to get to level 40, a grey elf needs around 11.5 million xp. Cup-born were ignored for this of course... >That's a cool way of dealing with the Banshee. >If I'm in that situation again, I'll keep that >in mind. It's also handy when dealing with anything that has ranged attacks, such as spellcasters and dragons. The troll that I got to level 50 in the ID relied on this to deal with a nasty threat room of great karmic wyrms that kept trying to confuse him and bolt his equipment. Needed the xp badly, and needed to be slowed when killing them, but I had to keep the blighters at a distance. Created a tunnel the length of the level with one half wider (so I could shoot missiles without being in a direct bolt line if they got close) and lured them in one by one and peppered them with arrows from the far end of the tunnel. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
SWEET! I used a tactic like that with my bling flinger, to fight bosses, but they were in LoS at the time. A learning score of 20 should be acceptable. I will try a few gnome wizards after my current PC dies (or wins). Leveling up isn't usually a problem though. The BUGWIL gets me to exp. level 12 to 14 with elves, so if I use a gnome, I might have to race a bit, to do the pyramid before reaching level 17. On a side note, I just browsed through some of the updated HoF characters. I noticed that your 'Mugs' character had Executor, but never really made use of it. That's hilarious! Having a PC that's so magically powerful, that upon finding a weapon like (+2, 5d6+6), slays demons and humans, and grants about half a dozen resistances, you say "Meh". Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 6 hours, 15 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
Most gnomes I generated had a learning score of 17 - there were only a couple above 20, so it could take some patience to generate one with the right starting stats. The xp difference won't make much difference with your early tactics, but I was more thinking that your guys must struggle for levels later on. What levels do you tend to be at the temples? Mugs (named after his first kill) probably would have used Executor if he wasn't a true spellcaster. Wizards get marks so slowly that it wasn't worth switching late in the game, especially when I was already very well trained with Serpent's Bite (enough marks to get a fighter to level 14, which goes to show how much I melee even with a stupendously powerful wizard). Wish I'd taken a video of D50 with that guy - everything just disintegrated so quickly... And I note you've recently taken up 4 of the top ten positions in the HoF? :P Guess the low turns and not stopping to save really boost up the points. The only people higher than you now are archmages and piety abusers. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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GiantFrog Registered user another gray elven wizard Last page view: 5646 days, 1 hour, 25 minutes and 38 seconds ago. |
uncursed bracers of toughness [+0, +0] (snip) // Shame I couldn't use them for the ToEF. Wouldn't bone bracers be destroyed in short order? You pick up the worn boots. |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
> Most gnomes I generated had a learning score of > 17 Well, that might be acceptable for a few tries anyway. I'll try anything! My latest elf just died to a fire demon, who decided to fight to the death in a blind rage. I'm starting to see the appeal of 'patching' the executable right about now : ) On to gnomes! I'm enthusiastic about trying one again. The last time I tried gnomes, I hadn't yet learned so much from these threads, here at the HoF. Maybe with the tips I've picked up, I can give them a better chance. Bookcasting should help a lot. I'm thinking that if I was doing a wizard guide now, it would much different from the first one. > What levels do you tend to be at the temples? At the Water Temple I'm usually exp. level 15. The Fire Temple I enter at 17, and (hopefully) exit around 20. Air Temple is not much higher, unless I kill the EG, and that's pretty rare now. There is always a chance he can get in a hit, and if he does hit such a weak PC, it's over. For the Earth Temple, I don't remember. It's been a while : ) Off the top of my head I would suppose around 22 to 24 entering and 25 to 27 leaving. The Mana Temple depends entirely upon what I kill along the way. I won't bother visiting vaults of greater undead, but for giants/dragons I will. Also, there is always the option of killing Sharad, if one has the magic missile spell. That can change things a lot. Anywhere from 28 to 32, maybe. For D:50 I don't remember ever being above 35, and yet always leave at 50. Lots of exp. points there! > And I note you've recently taken up 4 of the > top ten positions in the HoF? :P The funny thing, is that the blinger is waaaaay down on the list. That game was just as hard as the others (if not harder), and yet he's somewhere like # 119 ! Indeed, limited turns yield big scores. GiantFrog: > Wouldn't bone bracers be destroyed in short > order? I wasn't able to wear the bracers of toughness in the ToEF, because they are not fireproof. At least I don't think they are. I sorely missed the extra 7 points of toughness. Alas, in the end it made little difference. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 6 hours, 15 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
Well, if you plan to go for gnomes then remember a few things. Gnomes get a 25% reduction on quarrel marks, and you tend to find more quarrel slaying ammo than arrows (at least I do) so it's worth contentrating a little on these for big enemies. Ventriloquism makes easy work of a lot of enemies when maxed, especially the ACW. Mining helps gain gems fast, which can be useful for lots of things, so consider investing a few points in it. And finally, is a dive through the UD worth 6 points of learning? I must say I shall have to try one of these short turn challenges more seriously just to see what sort of score I can acquire. Been trying a few already, but I usually get very bored of them after dwarftown. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
> Ventriloquism makes easy work of a lot of > enemies when maxed, especially the ACW Wouldn't I have to stand right next to him to do that? I'm way to chicken for that. The 'buffer' monster approach is the safest one I've found so far. > And finally, is a dive through the UD worth 6 > points of learning? Doesn't the Oracle corpse doom you? And wouldn't there be death rays to worry about? I have no experience with killing the Oracle. > Been trying a few already, but I usually get > very bored of them after dwarftown I go immediately to the Griffyard after recieving the quest. The reward is many PoEH, and they are worth going back for, even befor visiting the Pyramid. Well, if you have the teleport spell anyway. I will sometimes do the Pyramid first, but invisibility is a must for that. Starting with a spellbook of teleport is a tremendous advantage. It offers a way to deal with cats, an emergency escape at almost any time, and (after a BD corpse) a path to great weapons and armor. Not to mention the turn savings. The mining might actually be worth it, I will try and see. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 6 hours, 15 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
>Wouldn't I have to stand right next to him to >do that? I'm way to chicken for that. The 'buffer' >monster approach is the safest one I've found so >far. Yup, true. Potion of confusion or blindness is probably preferable I guess, but ventriloquism is something you will always have. I agree that buffer is safer though. Ventriloquism is especially good to use on the casino shopkeeper - a couple of levels and loads of items without any repurcussions. >Doesn't the Oracle corpse doom you? And wouldn't >there be death rays to worry about? Yes and yes. But there are ways of dealing with both. She has very little hp, so killing her before she casts death ray is easy - just fire missiles from outside of a direct line from her. She normally stays on her little island. Then use piety or a blessed luck scroll to rid yourself of the dooming (you might need to leave the corpse in the shop till you have access to one of these two). Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Sulangatori Registered user Tourist Last page view: 1652 days, 11 hours, 40 minutes and 4 seconds ago. |
I take out the Oracle every game I play and usually I mine one of the stones beside her and berserk her. Downside, in addition to cursing and dooming, is that her corpse doesn't always yield +6 in learning. Probably if you're way low on learning points you'll get +6, but I've experienced going from LE 21 to 24 from eating her corpse. Status of corpse shouldn't have anything to do with it, should it? |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
I have had to give up on gnome wizards. They have two big problems. The talent 'great book caster' is beyond them for the early game. They just don't have the stats for it. Also, getting the waterproof blanket from the SMC is difficult because they level so fast. It's rough to roll twenty PC's, to start with a teleport book, only to die in the SMC. I was actually exp. level eight once, when exiting the SMC. That was rough, and I had to abuse the Mana stat heavily. I'm back to elves. I will try dark elves, for a while. I know that will put ball spells out of reach for the early game, but I mainly need them later anyway. They will also have limited castings of the spells they do learn, but bookcasting may make up for that. I'm hoping that their 'alertness' skill will give me an edge for the two toughest parts of the game, ACW and the Archmage. Eating the Oracle corpse might be something I could do, just after the casino. That should give the possibility to learn ball spells, if I find some in the gift shop. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 6 hours, 15 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
Sulangatori: Blessing the corpse helps immensely actually, and using sickness beforehand helps a lot too. I almost always get the full +6 from picking her brains. gut: SMC blanket? I never bother with that... I gave some gnomish wizards a try - had a fair amount of success with them. Last one died to the D13 stone golem - should have paid more attention. Was level 14 at 4.5k turns with every important spell, some decent equipment, loads of herbs and Le up to 27. Would have had an easy time with the pyramid, graveyard and high kings dungeon - ah well. I think I'll go back to trying my max artifact challenge - it suits my playstyle much better. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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gut Registered user Painted this one too. Last page view: 5108 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes and 12 seconds ago. |
I thought I might need the blanket to protect my spellbooks from water traps. I was planning to bookcast a lot. > Was level 14 at 4.5k turns with every important > spell, some decent equipment, loads of herbs > and Le up to 27 Sounds like you were well on pace for a 24000 turn victory. I think that if you beat the Griffyard at ~8000 turns, you are on pace. Did you use mining to get your learning so high, or the Oracle? Did you bookcast a lot, or just learn the spells outright? I thought you had beaten the max artifact challenge. Put me in the 'fool filter', where I belong! |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4450 days, 6 hours, 15 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
Learning started off at 24 and went up from book reading and a comfy chair room effect (one advantage to ID stair-hopping for books I guess). Only problem with the char was low hp, but I had 3 morgia squares stabilised in the big room (and 4 stoma squares in a level under dwarftown - with any other char I woulda so gone for a couple of stoma precrowns). No book-casting used other than to train mana sometimes (though I had the remove curse spell to use for that instead). Lack of castings was not an issue - I had plenty of books. Feel so stupid for dying to that golem, but I guess I'm just not used to being that deep with so little HP. I didn't beat the max artifact challenge - managed to get 15 precrowns with a level 50 troll (after much effort) but the game crashed when giving the amulet to Khelly (worst possible game for it to happen in of course). Now trying again with a Candle-born gnomish thief (with Heir gift) - fairly weak so far, and keeping him in DD till he improves. Got an early precrown, but it was the fudging black tome. Will progress slowly and carefully... Thieves are quite nice in a lot of ways (especially being pretty much immune to traps with auto-searching and alertness) - may write a guide for them after I'm done with this. Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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