Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / General / Math is wrong
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*Chaos Muffin* Registered user Chaotic Awesome Last page view: 6128 days, 16 hours, 40 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
let me explain :) 1 should equal 1, but.... 1 divided by 3 = 0.3333333333333333 and on and on forever, but 0.3333333333333333 (and on and on forever) = 0.9999999999999999 (and on and on) so 1 does not infact equal 1, but something less. Therefore, math is wrong. I look forward to the replys *<< Words go here >>* |
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 Kirbot Registered user BattleHax0r of Devastation Last page view: 5888 days, 20 hours, 13 minutes and 53 seconds ago. |
It's a concept that deals with infitesimals (sp?). 0.333333333... is only a mathematical expression that represents an infitesimally precise fraction. If you think about it in terms of solid constants, then you're right, it does come out to 0.99999... However, it isn't really a constant. Basically, just because it has the appearance of coming short, it is simply a representative of the fraction 1/3 and is not meant to be taken literally as 0.333333... and so on. Even though the representation may be flawed, it does not really indicate that math as a whole is flawed. As much as I hate to say it, and as beautiful as your arguement really is, it doesn't quite disprove mathematics. Good point, though. Molach: "I like to have 200+ hp and over 5 good healin potions when I do [the fire] temple. AND some way of killing the Wyrm" Morio: "Some way of killing the worm is recommended, yes :D" [Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/9/2005 at 23:32 (GMT -5) by Kirbot] |
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Morio Registered user Holy Champion of ADoM Last page view: 3902 days, 10 hours, 17 minutes and 54 seconds ago. |
1/3 is 0,333... and 3 * 1/3 = 0,999... = 1 I don't see anything wrong with that, there are a lot more interesting things about infinity than that. For example if you cut a paper in half, and throw away one half, then cut the remaining piece in half and throw away one piece, then cut again and throw away and so on. If you do that an infinite number of times, you won't have any paper left. ^^ "I don't know what World War 3 will be fought with, but I know World War 4 with be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein |
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*Chaos Muffin* Registered user Chaotic Awesome Last page view: 6128 days, 16 hours, 40 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
not so, you will have a very tiny half piece of paper.... *<< Words go here >>* |
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tongHoAnh Registered user adoomed Last page view: 6631 days, 2 hours and 47 minutes ago. |
Techniquely, you shall have an atom left ^^ My RL dumpyard: http://www.geocities.com/ceruleannebula/index.html |
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Battle bunny Registered user I'm just that cool Last page view: 5831 days, 8 hours, 19 minutes and 33 seconds ago. |
And then after that, the nucleus :P (\_/) (o.0) (> <) ( / \ ) Don't click this http://www.mindistortion.net/iwantyoursoul/?i_am=Darkcutter |
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tongHoAnh Registered user adoomed Last page view: 6631 days, 2 hours and 47 minutes ago. |
Techniquely, a scissor cannot cut an atom into half ;) My RL dumpyard: http://www.geocities.com/ceruleannebula/index.html |
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Morio Registered user Holy Champion of ADoM Last page view: 3902 days, 10 hours, 17 minutes and 54 seconds ago. |
And you are all wrong, maybe the paper cutting wasn't such e great example (it was the example used by my maths teacher), but if you do it an infinite number of times you'll have no paper left (1/2)^infinity = 0 "I don't know what World War 3 will be fought with, but I know World War 4 with be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein |
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 Arancaytar Registered user Pyromancer Last page view: 572 days, 15 hours, 27 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
Yes, the thing is that you can't cut it an infinite number of times in a finite length of time. Unless you can cut more quickly the smaller the piece is - but I'd rather say you slow down, since cutting such a tiny scrap is pretty tricky. Move the cursor to the desired position and press [SPACE] when done. Impossible. Suddenly you stand elsewhere. You see an ancient altar of black obsidian. The goblin rockthrower suddenly shouts a prayer to his gods! You are consumed by a roaring column of flame! |
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*Chaos Muffin* Registered user Chaotic Awesome Last page view: 6128 days, 16 hours, 40 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
...and two times infinty is twice the infinty :) *<< Words go here >>* |
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Echo Registered user Last page view: 3581 days, 12 hours and 37 seconds ago. |
I'm not so good at maths but isn't infinity times infinity = infinity? :p |
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tongHoAnh Registered user adoomed Last page view: 6631 days, 2 hours and 47 minutes ago. |
Echo: The problem is that it is hard to imagine an infinity with our non-infinitive imagination. Thus, something like "and two times infinty is twice the infinty" is commonly seen. And I think it is normal. My RL dumpyard: http://www.geocities.com/ceruleannebula/index.html |
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Morio Registered user Holy Champion of ADoM Last page view: 3902 days, 10 hours, 17 minutes and 54 seconds ago. |
if a bus with an infinite number of passengers stops at a hotel which has an infinite number of rooms, and all the passengers want room s with even numbers. Will they all get a room? Spoiler
Yes, since infinity / 2 = infinity "I don't know what World War 3 will be fought with, but I know World War 4 with be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein |
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Me Unregistered user |
Actually 1/3 is not equal to 0.333333... If you keep exact values 1/3 is only equal to 1/3 However if you accept to round off and use approximate values, then 3x 1/3 = 0.33333... x 3 = 0.99999... = 1 |
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Morio Registered user Holy Champion of ADoM Last page view: 3902 days, 10 hours, 17 minutes and 54 seconds ago. |
Actually when you type the "..." it means that you put an infinite number of decimals, and then 0,333... is exactly 1/3 "I don't know what World War 3 will be fought with, but I know World War 4 with be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein |
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Nchurmdaz Registered user Goblin flash mobber Last page view: 5992 days, 2 hours, 39 minutes and 43 seconds ago. |
If I'd give this thread to my elder brother, he'd laugh for a considerable amount of time... He's obsessed with math, you know. Ubi patria ibi bene! |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3759 days, 20 hours, 46 minutes and 4 seconds ago. |
I'm "obsessed with math" to the point I'm a physics major... I juggle infinities for fun!! *evil laughter* For some reason, it doesn't strike me at all weird that it takes an infinite number of digits in base-10 to represent the fraction "1/3"... But then... *points to above comment about juggling infinities*... I'm used to weirder stuff. Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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tongHoAnh Registered user adoomed Last page view: 6631 days, 2 hours and 47 minutes ago. |
... I juggle infinities for fun!!... Kinda like how we have fun with infinitive loops ;) while (true) spam("http://adom.brinkster.net"); My RL dumpyard: http://www.geocities.com/ceruleannebula/index.html [Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/16/2005 at 15:35 (GMT -5) by tongHoAnh] |
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melonhead Registered user The tasty Last page view: 6670 days, 7 hours, 4 minutes and 49 seconds ago. |
numbers are just our way of producing a explantion to the unexplainble..like in old times when people thought ghosts did stuff To all things an end must come..yours will be swift im sure.... |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4701 days, 6 hours, 23 minutes and 34 seconds ago. |
Actually, 0.9999999... = 1 Here is how: 1) Start with the formula 0.9999... = n 2) Multiply both sides by 10 10 * 0.99999... = 10n 3) Complete the Left hand side (10 * 0.999... = 9.9999...) 9.999999.... = 10n 4) Subtract n from both sides 9.9999.... - n = 10n - n 5) On the left hand side, replace n with the value from 1) (0.999... = n) 9.9999... - 0.99999... = 10n - n 6) Complete the left hand side (9.99... - 0.99... = 9) 9 = 10n - n 7) Complete the right hand side (10n - n = 9n) 9 = 9n 8) Divide both sides by 9 9/9 = 9n/9 9) Complete the left hand side (9/9 = 1) 1 = 9n/9 10) Complete the right hand side (9n/9 = n) 1 = n 11) going back to the original formula in 1) (0.999... = n) you can replace n with the value from 10) (1 = n) and you get 0.999... = 1 [Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/25/2005 at 11:59 (GMT -5) by Caladriel] |
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*Chaos Muffin* Registered user Chaotic Awesome Last page view: 6128 days, 16 hours, 40 minutes and 16 seconds ago. |
Oh god, you just destroyed my brain with that ;p *<< Words go here >>* |
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Kirbot Registered user BattleHax0r of Devastation Last page view: 5888 days, 20 hours, 13 minutes and 53 seconds ago. |
W00t! Go Caladriel! :D Molach: "I like to have 200+ hp and over 5 good healin potions when I do [the fire] temple. AND some way of killing the Wyrm" Morio: "Some way of killing the worm is recommended, yes :D" |
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tongHoAnh Registered user adoomed Last page view: 6631 days, 2 hours and 47 minutes ago. |
It was very hard, but I spotted it: 0.9(9) is indeed equal 1 right from the beginning so you conclusion 0.9(9) = 1 is not surprising. if it is a 0.(finitive number of 9) like 0.99999, then 0.99999*10 = 9.9999 (four 9 after the decimal). 9.9999 - 0.99999 != 9. My RL dumpyard: http://www.geocities.com/ceruleannebula/index.html |
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Kirbot Registered user BattleHax0r of Devastation Last page view: 5888 days, 20 hours, 13 minutes and 53 seconds ago. |
If it is indeed infinitesimal, then multiplying it by 10 won't cause it to lose its infinity. So the question is, is infinity minus infinity equal to zero, or infinity? Molach: "I like to have 200+ hp and over 5 good healin potions when I do [the fire] temple. AND some way of killing the Wyrm" Morio: "Some way of killing the worm is recommended, yes :D" |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3759 days, 20 hours, 46 minutes and 4 seconds ago. |
"infinitesimal" is not the same as "infinite". Infinity minus infinity is simply "undefined". You need more information about one or both infinities to get the answer. Die Gedanken sind Frei [Edited 1 time, last edit on 11/29/2005 at 20:17 (GMT -5) by Iridia] |
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tongHoAnh Registered user adoomed Last page view: 6631 days, 2 hours and 47 minutes ago. |
Bit-wise, infinity minus infinity equals zero. My RL dumpyard: http://www.geocities.com/ceruleannebula/index.html |
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The Real J. Registered user The faceless swordsman Last page view: 5617 days, 18 hours, 58 minutes and 30 seconds ago. |
About infinity, here is a weird idea I had once: There is an infinitely large, plain field, say in XZ-plane. At points (-inf, 0, 0), (0, 0, 0) and (inf, 0, 0) there are infinitely tall and unbreakable ladders going straight up (i.e. in the direction of the Y-axis). Now, there is a strange power in effect around these ladders. Anything that happens in the vicinity of the ladders at (-inf, 0, 0) will also happen 10 seconds later in the vicinity of the ladders at (0, 0, 0). Again, anything that happens in the vicinity of the ladders at (0,0,0) will happen 10 seconds later at the ladders at (inf,0,0). And finally, anything that happens in the vicinity of the ladders at (inf,0,0) will happen 10 seconds later at the ladders in (-inf,0,0). Now, imagine a person walks up to the ladders at (-inf,0,0) and starts climbing. 10 seconds later an exact copy of that person appears to the ladders at (0,0,0) and starts also climbing. 20 seconds from the initial person arriving a second copy of that person will appear to the ladders at (inf,0,0) and start climbing. What happens 30 seconds from the beginning and later ? Things get even crazier if the climbing loop doesn't just start from the beginning but a new copy of the person appears. This way there will soon be an infinite number of persons climbing. And, if the topmost person loses his grip and falls down... Sytytä toiselle tuli ja hän pysyy lämpimänä jonkin aikaa. Sytytä hänet palamaan ja hän pysyy lämpimänä loppuelämänsä. |
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tongHoAnh Registered user adoomed Last page view: 6631 days, 2 hours and 47 minutes ago. |
Urrgs... it really fit well with the ideology about time. You have my rekoning for capable of thinking suck wierdie (are you wierd? ;) My RL dumpyard: http://www.geocities.com/ceruleannebula/index.html |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4072 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes and 4 seconds ago. |
Well, infinity plus infinity is infinity, so infinity minus infinity should still be infinity. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Morio Registered user Holy Champion of ADoM Last page view: 3902 days, 10 hours, 17 minutes and 54 seconds ago. |
Silfir, infinity minus infinity is like Iridia said: undefined. This is because infinity is not a number, and can't exist in reality. here is an example: infinity - 1 = infinity if we subtract infinity from both sides we get: -1 = 0 I admit, that wasn't a good example, but it shows that infinity doesn't follow standard mathematical rules. "I don't know what World War 3 will be fought with, but I know World War 4 with be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein |
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