Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / General / Math is wrong
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Morio Registered user Holy Champion of ADoM Last page view: 3902 days, 7 hours, 26 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
Silfir, infinity minus infinity is like Iridia said: undefined. This is because infinity is not a number, and can't exist in reality. here is an example: infinity - 1 = infinity if we subtract infinity from both sides we get: -1 = 0 I admit, that wasn't a good example, but it shows that infinity doesn't follow standard mathematical rules. "I don't know what World War 3 will be fought with, but I know World War 4 with be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein |
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tongHoAnh Registered user adoomed Last page view: 6630 days, 23 hours, 55 minutes and 25 seconds ago. |
Morio: "Silfir, infinity minus infinity is like Iridia said: undefined." So: "infinity - 1 = infinity if we subtract infinity from both sides we get:" infinity - 1 = infinity or may be infinity - 1 = 0 or "-1 = 0" I agree with your saying "infinity doesn't follow standard mathematical rules." Further problems with infinity could be found at wiki. My RL dumpyard: http://www.geocities.com/ceruleannebula/index.html |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4072 days, 9 hours, 52 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
Infinity is not a number, of course... It is a special kind of... of... Damn my Germanness, what is a "Menge"? Hmm, maybe I just confused something I learned for that project I did for school... But aleph zero + aleph zero = aleph zero, aleph zero * aleph zero also equals aleph zero. Hmm... You're right though, - and / weren't mentioned there. Sorry ^^ That infinity doesn't follow standard mathematical rules for numbers I know for myself. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Iridia Moderator on this forum YASD Last page view: 3759 days, 17 hours, 54 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
"Menge"= "quantity"? Die Gedanken sind Frei |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4072 days, 9 hours, 52 minutes and 29 seconds ago. |
Probably. Thanks :) You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Joe Unregistered user |
This might clarify the old 0.999... = 1 0.999... does infact = 1. This is since there is no number that can be written that lies exactly between 0.999.. and 1. Hence they are the same. Essentialy 0.999... is the sum of all 9/(10^n) where n=1 to infinity. Ie 0.9+0.09+0.009+... This just converges to 1. This just happens to be a quirk with all number systems regardless of base (ie decimal, hexidecimal etc) What is more interesting is imagine a 3d graph, where you have the formula z = x^y where z is the height of a point on our plane and x and y are our width and depth on the plane. For some random line where y stays constant, when x approaches 0 our z will tend to zero ie (0^Y=1), however for some line where x stays constant and y approaches 0 our z tends to 1 ie (x^0=1). So what happens when y=x=0??? |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4701 days, 3 hours, 31 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
As I recall, 0^0 = 1, so in your graph, at the point x = y = 0, z = 1. ie. on the plane where y is a constant other than 0, the line doesn't just tend towards 0, it reaches 0 when x = 0. on the plane where y = 0, the line is a straight horizontal line with the value 1. It never tends towards 0, let alone equaling 0. The line is always at 1 (x^0=1 for all x) On the plane where x is a constant other than 0, the line doesn't just tend towards 1, it _reaches_ 1 when y=0. On the plane where x = 0, the line is a straight horizontal line with a value of 0, until you reach y = 0. At y=0, there is a single point with the value 1 |
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Morio Registered user Holy Champion of ADoM Last page view: 3902 days, 7 hours, 26 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
Caladriel, if I'm not completely mistaken 0^0 is undefined "I don't know what World War 3 will be fought with, but I know World War 4 with be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4701 days, 3 hours, 31 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
It has been years. You might be right. In that case, any line on the plane where X = 0 simply has a break at y = 0, and any line on the plane where y = 0 simply has a break at x = 0. |
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Morio Registered user Holy Champion of ADoM Last page view: 3902 days, 7 hours, 26 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
Ok, just did some testing with a really reliable program nemd Mathematica and this is what I got: in[1]:=0^0 out[1]=indeterminate "I don't know what World War 3 will be fought with, but I know World War 4 with be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein |
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The Real J. Registered user The faceless swordsman Last page view: 5617 days, 16 hours, 6 minutes and 55 seconds ago. |
Speaking of strange mathematics, I once write a humor document about "extended theory of relativity" (not sure about the term, but I mean those Einstein formulas for mass, time and length at various speeds) theoretizing those formulas at speeds greater than the speed of light and at complex speeds (containing an imaginary part). Got some interesting results... Sytytä toiselle tuli ja hän pysyy lämpimänä jonkin aikaa. Sytytä hänet palamaan ja hän pysyy lämpimänä loppuelämänsä. |
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???? Unregistered user |
I think 1-0,99999... = 1/infinite. also n/infinite = 1/infinite. I think infinity by thinking adding always a little more to something. |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5145 days, 15 hours, 4 minutes and 42 seconds ago. |
Number of natural numbers: Infinite Number of natural, odd number : Infinite Natural number - Odd number = Even numbers. So thats one example of Infinity - Infinity = Infinity Prime numbers are also infinite, but they are "more rare" than rational numbers. However this doesnt matter when youre talking about infinity. Real numbers ARE more infinite than rational. A 1cm line has more points in than can ever be expressed by infinite rational numbers. Somehow. It has been postulated that if you take infinity ^infinity, you get a higher order of infinity. Somehow. About the 1/3 = 0.33333.... This may be a misleading way of writing this. Many people think of "infinity" as a really really large number, or the "largets" number possible. Writing 0.33333... on a line will lead to the picture of a LINE of 3's, stretching out, and then one gets the idea that it might somehow end. If I write 0.3333 like this: 0. ---3--- --3-3-- -3---3- --3-3-- ---3--- in a circle, I get the picture of truly never-ending 3's. You just go around the circle, and never ever stop. But then again, its faster to just write 1/3, which means just the same. P.S. take 50% of what I said with half a pinch of salt. |
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???? Unregistered user |
i got an idea: 1/3 is not 0,3333... it is 0,3333...+(1/infinite) 1 = 0,9999...+(1/infinite) |
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Thoth Registered user The Scribe Last page view: 6197 days, 3 hours, 6 minutes and 28 seconds ago. |
1 is the loneliest number that you'll ever do 2 can be as bad as 1 It's the loneliest number since the number 1 I think you see where I'm going with this You and me, and you and you Simultaneous lovin' baby 2 or 3 yeah Don't even get me started on 4... --<>||<>-- |
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Darren Grey Registered user Last page view: 4243 days, 9 hours, 10 minutes and 19 seconds ago. |
Or 69... Waldenbrook, the dwarven shopkeeper, mumbles: "I'd offer 9 gold pieces for yer dwarven child corpse." |
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Caladriel Registered user ReGiStErEd UsEr Last page view: 4701 days, 3 hours, 31 minutes and 59 seconds ago. |
Molach: Natural numbers, Odd Numbers and Prime numbers are "Countably" infinite. Prime numbers are not more rare than natural numbers, they are simply ordered differently. FYI, all rational numbers are countably infinite. Essentially, Countably infinite sets are sets where you can index all the entries with a function. ie. f(1) = first number, f(2) = 2nd number. Given any number in the set, anybody who knows the function could tell you what index it is (albeit, they might have to do a lot of calculation) Real numbers are uncountably infinite. It is not that there are more points in 1cm than there are counting numbers; rather, it is simply that you cannot map every point in 1cm to a countable number. FYI, you can map every fraction of 1cm to a countable number. |
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nOOb-mAsTeR Registered user Master of all things nOOby!!! Last page view: 5767 days, 23 hours, 5 minutes and 37 seconds ago. |
just for the record, technically everything is "infinite" in some way or manner. It's just that their aspects aren't always obvious to we puny humans :D Ex: If I were to hold a pencil, and held it in front of my face and said" This pencil goes on forever and will in some way or manner exist infinitely , most people would say I'm crazy.Well, my doctor say's I'm not.Everything is "technically infinite"(except for the infinite dungeon), since their atoms, which are always existent in some form of matter or energy. So we are "technically" infinite as well. The key word in this is "technically." "You try to give Fang, the large dog the bone. Fang, the large dog says,"Do you know who I am, mortal?!?!" My smartest dog ever:D |
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 Kaezar Registered user the Warlock Last page view: 6320 days, 14 hours, 31 minutes and 48 seconds ago. |
infinity is boring... Googolplex! ftw :P even better...try to write down googolplex in numbers! Guth'Alak, the druid, puts down a book and a wand. You feel as if trangressing some law. (more) The wolf in me, desire the sheep, in you. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 1/4/2007 at 17:09 (GMT -5) by Kaezar] |
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jeremiah Registered user Last page view: 5710 days, 23 hours, 56 minutes and 39 seconds ago. |
Morio is right(as with the cutting of paper); our understanding is the only thing bound by the laws of math and time. I feel that infinity is more of an abstract thought. We have no way of knowing if anything does really go on forever. "10 to the power of googol or 10 to the power of (10 to the power of 100) i am guessing the later one. " I googled it. "THE TH TALENT SUCKS!!!!!!" - Gut [Edited 1 time, last edit on 1/4/2007 at 19:52 (GMT -5) by jeremiah] |
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