Ancient Domains Of Mystery, forum overview / ADOM / Ranger with two weapon
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BrasilianWeirdVideos Registered user pron knight Last page view: 5174 days, 10 hours, 51 minutes and 51 seconds ago. |
Is it true that - as written in the adom faq - rangers receive special bonuses for fighting with 2 weapons? If it is, what are those bonuses? Thanks |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4075 days, 14 hours, 1 minute and 57 seconds ago. |
I think that one's in the manual. *hint* As far as I remember, dual-wielders can only wield weapons of low weight without taking penalties to their to-hit. The off-hand (left) weapon has to be lighter than the right-hand weapon or the penalties are even greater. With their class powers, Rangers reduce their weight penalties considerably. It probably also means they can use heavier weapons and still get reasonable hitting chances. So, in a nutshell, rangers get a higher to-hit when dual-wielding than other classes, which is as it should be. Off-topic: To be honest, when I saw your username I though one of those damn spambots got into our forum again :) You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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BrasilianWeirdVideos Registered user pron knight Last page view: 5174 days, 10 hours, 51 minutes and 51 seconds ago. |
lol :) Thank you! So rangers bonuses are depending on their skill/chars or on the fact that they are "rangers"? |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4075 days, 14 hours, 1 minute and 57 seconds ago. |
Only rangers get that particular bonus. The skill works for all characters/classes that have it equally. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Battle bunny Registered user I'm just that cool Last page view: 5834 days, 9 hours, 37 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
But with an adequate Two Weapon Combat skill you'll be saying "What penalty?" in no time. (\_/) (o.0) (> <) ( / \ ) Don't click this http://www.mindistortion.net/iwantyoursoul/?i_am=Darkcutter |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4075 days, 14 hours, 1 minute and 57 seconds ago. |
"Damn, I only rolled 46 more than what I needed to hit you! This 'dual-wielding' really is frustrating. Maybe I should start wearing a spear and a shield again to get that number higher. What's your opinion on this?" The hobgoblins and orcs, approximately twenty in numbers, some of them still twitching from the pain of the wounds you caused with your wild rampage, do not seem to be aware of what you just said. You wipe off the blood from your blades, a sword of sharpness and an eternium dagger, and sigh loudly. "You are not very helpful. This is an imporant issue! Sigh... maybe I should have taken the Ranger class after all." You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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BrasilianWeirdVideos Registered user pron knight Last page view: 5174 days, 10 hours, 51 minutes and 51 seconds ago. |
He he :) |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5148 days, 19 hours, 14 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
They really should get a tiny discount on the time spent on each hit while dual-wielding. I once played Drizzt-Whatever, Dark elf Ranger, and made it a rule to ALways dualwield. And then I had several near deaths because my usual hit-retrea-hit tactic against slow, strong monsters failed. It took me a long time to figure out how that energy-action-cost point system works. If you haven't, let me just give you a little advice: Never dual wield without two weapon combat skill. Unless you are fighting monsters 10 levels below you :). Reason not being hitroll, but time"roll". Also getting weapon skill marks really helps. Again the time"roll". This is in the manual too, and it just took me half a year to grasp that. |
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Nightmare Registered user Soul Calibur 2 Last page view: 4606 days, 3 hours, 25 minutes and 1 second ago. |
Yeah, I love dual wielding, so much fun, but in certain places against certain things, you REALLY need a shield with the shield skill up high. Don't forget the ambidextrous talent and high dex to keep your to hit up there. "As for me, I feel priveleged to be among the only species able to make scientific inquiries." -unknown "Be sure to keep your distance if you don't have resistance." -DG |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4075 days, 14 hours, 1 minute and 57 seconds ago. |
Checked the manual, and actually rangers get +6 to-hit more than any other class when dual-wielding... So the bonus isn't restricted to class powers. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5148 days, 19 hours, 14 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
S: Very true. Let me again stress this time-spent-energy-thing-thing again, once more, just this one more time. Without two-handed combat skill: At weapon skill 0. You dual-wield some fancy-looking daggers. Each attack you make costs 1800 energy. That means 1.8 normal turns. Which again means, you make 2 attacks in the time of 1.8. GREAT. But you take a hitroll penalty. And, you have to spend that 1.8 turns in one single go, which means you cannot TRY one hit and run away if it fails. In fact, sometimes you get one hit and receive two incoming strikes, at the most inconvenient time. And of course you are not wearing any shield. At skill level 10. You dual wield the same ole daggers. On one attack you spend (760+800)=1560 energy points. 1.56 normal turns. LOOKing better, isntit? But wait just one tiny moment. One single-dagger strike would take 760 energy points. Two strikes would take 1520. 1.52. Which means that you are taking LONGer time, and opening up for counterattack, AND perhaps using one sub-optimal dagger (unless they are identical), AND taking a to-hit penalty. Of course, the salvation to all this is the two-weapon combat skill, which will give -400 energy at skill level 100. But still; Skill level 15. 1 single-handed-dagger attack: 560 energy. 2 single-handed dagger attacks: 1120 energy. Dual dagger attack (2hand combat skill 100): 960 energy. So wielding one weapon, you spend 17% more energy on two attacks. But you deal the attack one at a time for tactical reasons, and you have no hitroll penalties (highlevel rangers don't have them anyway) AND you can wear a shield. In my book, that is a net WIN for one-handed fighting. The above consideretions do not take into account the DUAL-hit kill-scenario. Say, if you deal enough damage so that your dual attack kills off your opponent, then you do not have to worry about time spent, because your opponent is, like, dead, and unable to retaliate. However, again, if you are fighting several semi-weak monsters, if you could one-hit-kill a monster wielding just one weapon, then dual wielding is totally wasted, and leaves the rest of the pack of monsters free to land hits on you. And it is very hard to move through a crowd of monster (summoned spiders for instance) while dual wielding, becausse after you kill something, there is a 1.5ish turns pause for monsters to close ranks and block your advance. On the Other hand, a certain pair of twin daggers leaves this whole analysis null and void. They only "work" when dual-wielded, so one-handed wielding is not an option. They have a ridiculous hit bonus to negate the usual hitroll problems. (Not to speak of the damroll....) And they even have some basic DV and PV. Those bastards. But at least not as much as a well-trained eternium shield. But again, if you somehow did not get the two-handed combat skill (mabye gave the gladius to the artifact-eating ratling) then you might consider not wielding them. If you plan on using them, getting the most dagger skill marks you can would be highly recommended. P.S: Whenever I said "dagger" above, it works for any weapon class. Except whips, which I belive get a special great big minus to-hit because they are devilishly hard to dual wield. Which the Creator Himself has experienced. I suspect. [Edited 1 time, last edit on 9/7/2007 at 20:32 (GMT -5) by Molach] |
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Battle bunny Registered user I'm just that cool Last page view: 5834 days, 9 hours, 37 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
"However, again, if you are fighting several semi-weak monsters, if you could one-hit-kill a monster wielding just one weapon, then dual wielding is totally wasted, and leaves the rest of the pack of monsters free to land hits on you. And it is very hard to move through a crowd of monster (summoned spiders for instance) while dual wielding, becausse after you kill something, there is a 1.5ish turns pause for monsters to close ranks and block your advance." There is one thing which still works for two weapon combat here: tactics. It might not be totally wasted if they are "semi"-weak, because you can switch to Defensive-Coward tactics, which reduces your damage (giving your dual wielding some meaning) and increases your DV (which eliminates the "free to land hits on you" part). (\_/) (o.0) (> <) ( / \ ) Don't click this http://www.mindistortion.net/iwantyoursoul/?i_am=Darkcutter |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4075 days, 14 hours, 1 minute and 57 seconds ago. |
It also decreases your to-hit, though, and two-weapon-fighting already adds penalties to that. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Battle bunny Registered user I'm just that cool Last page view: 5834 days, 9 hours, 37 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
...yes, and two weapon combat improves it, and dual wielding adds more marks to one weapon skill or adds to several at once, and so on, and son on... :D (\_/) (o.0) (> <) ( / \ ) Don't click this http://www.mindistortion.net/iwantyoursoul/?i_am=Darkcutter |
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Mewto Registered user Last page view: 3606 days, 15 hours, 42 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
I don't usually dual-wield for practical reasons, I dual-wield for the coolness of it ;) For the Horde! |
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Nightmare Registered user Soul Calibur 2 Last page view: 4606 days, 3 hours, 25 minutes and 1 second ago. |
The "of Defense" suffix can help a lot with dual wielding DV. Amen to the coolness factor. What's better than wielding one kickass weapon? Swinging two of them! YEAH! "As for me, I feel priveleged to be among the only species able to make scientific inquiries." -unknown "Be sure to keep your distance if you don't have resistance." -DG |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5148 days, 19 hours, 14 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
Agreed about coolness. Whenever I see my character @ on the screen, and know he is dual-wielding, that conjures up a very aesthetically pleasing mental image. I merely meant that it is, in fact, sub-optimal. About DV, I forgot to mention this (from manual): "If a character wields two melee weapons, his DV modifier is calculated by taking the DV modifier of the weapon in the right hand plus one-half of the DV modifier of the left hand weapon." Note: This DV is rounded down. Means: Daggers skill level 12-15 - you get an extra +2 DV by dual wielding (you get +5 from primary hand as you would anyway) Swords: Weapons skill level 15 gives +3 DV Pole arm: Weapon skill 15 will give +11 DV - this is actually useful. However, a shield can give +13 (on the shield itself) +26 (shield skill) + 6 (talents) = +45 DV. The argument that "one can fight cowardly" with 2h-wielding does not concern the debate. Because you can fight cowardly with 1h-wielding as well, for the same gain/loss. And I would almost always prefer to hit hard on any given attack anyway (due to enemy PV consideretions). "of Defense" only works when fighting somewhat defensive, but will then grant an extra +6 DV. However if it has that suffix, it is not a kickass weapon :). And then a shield would be better anyway. Catch - 22. The twins are again somewhat beyond comparison. Because they are so good. So mabye a solution could be to give Rangers, at least, a class power that deals +1 damamge when dual wielding. Or even better, make some (3) talents along the line of Specialist dual-wielder (1+ hit and dam when d.w) Master d.w (+2 when) Expert d.w (+3 when) +6 hit and dam for 3 talents would not be too much. |
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Battle bunny Registered user I'm just that cool Last page view: 5834 days, 9 hours, 37 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
That's what they call Ambidextrous in the talent list, except that it doesn't have such a tree. (\_/) (o.0) (> <) ( / \ ) Don't click this http://www.mindistortion.net/iwantyoursoul/?i_am=Darkcutter |
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Molach Registered user Lord of DurisMud Last page view: 5148 days, 19 hours, 14 minutes and 10 seconds ago. |
About PV-hit consideretions, and why I consider dealing highest possible damage a great concern: How much better is dealing 20 damage than dealing 10 damage? "Twice as good?" No, far better. Fighting against creatures with average PV 5, you do 5 damage or 15. Three times better. Against PV 8 you do 2 damamge or 12. Six times better. So it is only twice as good again 0 PV, and it quickly gets a lot better. Think about those missile weapon talents - is really +6 damamge worth anything? I do (say) 40 already... 40 vs. 46 Enemy PV0: 15% better Enemy PV5: 17% better Enemy PV10: 20% better Enemy PV20: 30% better Enemy PV30: 60% better and against 35: 120% better Damage is king. |
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Nightmare Registered user Soul Calibur 2 Last page view: 4606 days, 3 hours, 25 minutes and 1 second ago. |
Interesting statistics Molach, I didn't know how powerful that was. Math skills FTW "As for me, I feel priveleged to be among the only species able to make scientific inquiries." -unknown "Be sure to keep your distance if you don't have resistance." -DG |
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nOOb-mAsTeR Registered user Master of all things nOOby!!! Last page view: 5771 days, 3 hours, 15 minutes and 5 seconds ago. |
When monks get to use 2 fists instead of one,they would then become my favorite class. "You try to give Fang, the large dog the bone. Fang, the large dog says,"Do you know who I am, mortal?!?!" My smartest dog ever:D |
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Karnot Unregistered user |
If you farm orcs for some magic spears - you may sometimes luck out big time. Two spears of vampirism = permanent berserk, yeah baby ! Oh, yeah, and Battle bunny is an asshole. |
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Battle bunny Registered user I'm just that cool Last page view: 5834 days, 9 hours, 37 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
Now here is where the real questions arises. Who is the bigger asshole: the one who criticizes someone else's grammar, or the one who flames first and doesn't even have the backbone to use a real account? Or, the other likely possibility, that you are fresh cannonfodder here and have no idea about anything going on here? Common sense = not so common anymore. I'd like to see how two spears of vampirism can: -own two spears of devastation -guarantee you a successful game win. (\_/) (o.0) (> <) ( / \ ) Don't click this http://www.mindistortion.net/iwantyoursoul/?i_am=Darkcutter |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4075 days, 14 hours, 1 minute and 57 seconds ago. |
Flaming people in a thread where said people didn't even give a reason to be flamed, thus derailing the thread, looks like pretty assholish behaviour to me. I'd like to see spears of vampirism get through the armour of, say, a moloch or a diamond golem. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Sulangatori Registered user Tourist Last page view: 1448 days, 18 hours, 44 minutes and 35 seconds ago. |
Haha, I love bickering. This forum has been lawful long enough, now it is time for a new era of chaotic behaviour. I wish I could bicker with you, but I'm all bickered out. If anyone would like to bicker with me, I'm at your disposal. To all you other bickerers, let's see some good bickering. Off-topic, you say? Well, let the bickering commence! |
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Silfir Registered user Writer of Overly Long Guides Last page view: 4075 days, 14 hours, 1 minute and 57 seconds ago. |
I'd bicker about your bickering encouraging, but that would be idiotic. You drop the golden ball. You kick the golden ball. It slides to the west. Suddenly Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, appears! "That's not how you play Quidditch! are you even listening?" Which direction? (123456789) 4 Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is hit by a bolt of acid! Harry Potter, the apprentice wizard, is annihilated. You hear the ecstatic cries of a large crowd! |
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Mewto Registered user Last page view: 3606 days, 15 hours, 42 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Iridiaaaa, Ekateriiiin For the Horde! |
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Battle bunny Registered user I'm just that cool Last page view: 5834 days, 9 hours, 37 minutes and 26 seconds ago. |
This whole topic is idiotic. I mean, the bickering stuff, not the "Ranger with two weapons" stuff. Also, Jan Eriiiiiiik (\_/) (o.0) (> <) ( / \ ) Don't click this http://www.mindistortion.net/iwantyoursoul/?i_am=Darkcutter |
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Sulangatori Registered user Tourist Last page view: 1448 days, 18 hours, 44 minutes and 35 seconds ago. |
Splendid! Bickering is now elevated from a mere side-note to a topic. If everyone puts in their fare share of bickering perhaps we will soon see it represented in a whole section of its own. If bickering is wrong, then I don't wanna be right. |
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Mewto Registered user Last page view: 3606 days, 15 hours, 42 minutes and 14 seconds ago. |
Bickering ~ silly spam :) On some forums I'm a member on, there's a spam topic. Needless to say, it's the biggest topic :P Maybe it wouldn't hurt having one here, too. I guess the closest thing to it would be Suomalaisten oma plaza? For the Horde! |
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